Does the Sun Move According to the Bible?

[tetelestai]

either way, Geocentrism is wrong.

You can't prove it wrong.

And, you can't prove heliocentrism correct.

 

[keypurr]

The idea of the the sun standing still in the sky seems so well established that the idea of questioning this notion seems laughable. Absurd. Utterly ridiculous and stupid. After all, the scientists say the sun is sitting there with the earth flying around it at about 67,000 miles per hour. They taught this fact to us in school. It must be true. But how do you know it is true?

Daniel it is a GREAT question.

You look into the sky, and throughout the day, the sun appears to move. You see the sun moving. You don't see or feel yourself moving. You were never in space to look down at earth and see it move around the sun. Yet you believe the sun is still.

What does this have to do with the Bible?

Most Christians on TOL, and most I know personally, reject the theory of evolution. They claim it is unbiblical. Most claim that is any self-described Christian accepts evolution, they simply aren't believing what the Bible clearly states. Yet they accept the heliocentric model without a second thought, even though the Bible clearly teaches that the sun moves around the earth.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

So how are we to be Biblical literalists when it comes to evolutionary theory, but dismiss the above scriptures as symbology or metaphors? Why should I not believe exactly what the Bible says? Should I fear ridicule from the same people who believe that nothing exploded and turned into everything all by itself billions of years ago?

I think the entire Solar System is moving in the Universe. I think time is measured by movement in some way. If the big bang is right our entire Universe is in motion.

Psa 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Psa 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
Psa 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

 

[tetelestai]

If the big bang is right our entire Universe is in motion.

As I said, atheists have a lot vested in heliocentrism.

Geocentrism would prove the big bang theory wrong, which would prove evolution wrong.

Geocentrism is an atheist's worst fear.

 

[keypurr]

As I said, atheists have a lot vested in heliocentrism.

Geocentrism would prove the big bang theory wrong, which would prove evolution wrong.

Geocentrism is an atheist's worst fear.

God has no limits, he does things in his own way friend.

 

[tetelestai]

God has no limits, he does things in his own way friend.

Ok, but if geocentrism is correct, the big bang theory and evolution are proven false.

 

[Clete]

If the Bible taught such things, then that's the way it would be.

Not because the bible taught it though. The bible is a falsifiable book and Christianity along with it.

If the Bible taught that the universe was geocentric, it would be falsified.

 

[Clete]

This thread is dropping the IQ of everyone who visits it!

I'm out!

 

[tetelestai]

This thread is dropping the IQ of everyone who visits it!

I'm out!

There is no better verse in the Bible that describes you, than the following:

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[CabinetMaker]

As I said, neither model can be proven true or false.

Albert Einstein said the same thing:

"The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, 'the sun is at rest and the earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems." - Albert Einstein

Please don't quote Einstein when have absolutely no idea what he is talking about. You do not understand the coordinate systems that he is referring to so you are asserting a conclusion that Einstein never said.

 

[Caino]

The idea of the the sun standing still in the sky seems so well established that the idea of questioning this notion seems laughable. Absurd. Utterly ridiculous and stupid. After all, the scientists say the sun is sitting there with the earth flying around it at about 67,000 miles per hour. They taught this fact to us in school. It must be true. But how do you know it is true?

You look into the sky, and throughout the day, the sun appears to move. You see the sun moving. You don't see or feel yourself moving. You were never in space to look down at earth and see it move around the sun. Yet you believe the sun is still.

What does this have to do with the Bible?

Most Christians on TOL, and most I know personally, reject the theory of evolution. They claim it is unbiblical. Most claim that is any self-described Christian accepts evolution, they simply aren't believing what the Bible clearly states. Yet they accept the heliocentric model without a second thought, even though the Bible clearly teaches that the sun moves around the earth.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

So how are we to be Biblical literalists when it comes to evolutionary theory, but dismiss the above scriptures as symbology or metaphors? Why should I not believe exactly what the Bible says? Should I fear ridicule from the same people who believe that nothing exploded and turned into everything all by itself billions of years ago?

The Bible was written in an enchanted age when sincere holy men of faith didn't know any differently. The authors of Genesis wrote in "preach talk", they made NO CLAIM of writing by inspiration or The Word of God! The blame for this confusion rest squarely on right wing fundamentalist within institutionalized religion who have perpetuated the extra-biblical myth that God wrote the Bible. They were writing about God's doings as they understood them with political, cultural and racial bias.

But it is a FACT that the sacred scripture served a purpose in preserving faith and the wisdom of the ages for those coming into faith today.

The Bible books are as imperfect as we should expect them to be for nothing touched by human hands and minds is perfect, God alone is perfect. "The creature may crave perfection but only the creator possesses it."

 

[tetelestai]

Please don't quote Einstein when have absolutely no idea what he is talking about. You do not understand the coordinate systems that he is referring to so you are asserting a conclusion that Einstein never said.

You're wrong.

Einstein knew both could not be proven true or false.

Einstein could not prove the Michelson-Morley experiment false, so Einstein set out to prove heliocentrism correct. In order to do so, he had to come up with something to show Michelson-Morley as false (which it wasn't)

Einstein took Henrick Lorentz's theory that Michelson’s apparatus shrunk during the experiment, modified it, added time and distance, and out of nothing, the Special Theory of Relativity was born.

It's all done with mirrors. The only way Einstein and other heliocentrists can make their claims is by claiming everything appears different than it actually does in reality.

Like I said, not you, not Einstein, nor anyone else can prove geocentrism wrong, nor can you prove heliocentrism correct with Empirical evidence.

 

[User Name]

You can't prove it wrong.

And, you can't prove heliocentrism correct.

Some stars are far closer to the earth than others, and as the earth rotates around the sun, the distance between them causes us to see them change position in relation to each other.

This is most easily demonstrated visually:

As the earth rotates around the sun, our view of the stars changes. When observing from the earth in the uppermost position, an astronomer would see the red star slightly to the right of the orange star. Someone observing from the earth in the lowest position would see the red star to the left of the orange star. A person observing from the earth in the center of the figure would see only the orange star.

These observations are very different from the ones we would make in a geocentric universe:

A person on a stationary earth would see the orange and red stars only in a single position as they moved around the earth.

By keeping a careful record of the stars at night, including their proximity to each other, we are able to see apparent shifts in star position over time. These shifts in star position, paradoxically enough, prove that universe around us is (relatively) stationary, and we are the ones moving.

-- http://io9.gizmodo.com/5464810/the-earth-revolves-around-the-sun--prove-it

 

[tetelestai]

These shifts in star position, paradoxically enough, prove that universe around us is (relatively) stationary, and we are the ones moving.

Nope

The following time lapse photo shows the stars moving around Polaris, not us moving:

Also, if the earth tilts (heliocentrist claim), then why is Polaris always directly above the North Pole?

 

[User Name]

Nope

The following time lapse photo shows the stars moving around Polaris, not us moving:

Also, if the earth tilts (heliocentrist claim), then why is Polaris always directly above the North Pole?

You don't seem to understand stellar parallax. It isn't observable over the course of one night. It takes months to notice it. Here is a video demonstration:

Stellar Parallax

For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

 

[tetelestai]

You don't seem to understand stellar parallax.

You guys need to make up your mind.

On one hand you're claiming the nearest star to planet earth is 4.2 lightyears away, and on the other hand claiming a stellar parallax.

If Polaris is lightyears away, there is no way a parallax could be detected with such a distance based on the distance the earth allegedly travels in 6 months.

 

[tetelestai]

As for "lightyears", it would be like me telling you the horizon is 35 trillion light years away from where you are sitting right now.

You can't disprove it because no matter how fast or how far you travel, the horizon would always appear, and always be equally the same distance away.

 

[User Name]

You guys need to make up your mind.

On one hand you're claiming the nearest star to planet earth is 4.2 lightyears away, and on the other hand claiming a stellar parallax.

If Polaris is lightyears away, there is no way a parallax could be detected with such a distance based on the distance the earth allegedly travels in 6 months.

Stellar parallax is so difficult to detect that its existence was the subject of much debate in astronomy for thousands of years. It was only first proven in 1838 when Friedrich Bessel made the first successful parallax measurement ever, for the star 61 Cygni, using a Fraunhofer heliometer at Königsberg Observatory.

Once a star's parallax is known, its distance from Earth can be computed trigonometrically. But the more distant an object is, the smaller its parallax. Even with 21st-century techniques in astrometry, the limits of accurate measurement make distances farther away than about 100 parsecs (roughly 326 light years) too approximate to be useful when obtained by this technique.

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

 

[GuySmiley]

Looking at the universe through geocentrism isn't wrong, its just a point of reference. But then you can't go on to say that people who look at things through heliocentrism are wrong.

I can't tell what you believe. Do you actually believe that physically the Earth is still and all the stars and our sun orbit around the Earth every 24 hours?

If the Earth is still, why do satellites need far more energy to reach a retrograde orbit than a prograde orbit. (retrograde and prograde are terms you should reject I suppose.)

 

[CabinetMaker]

You're wrong.

Einstein knew both could not be proven true or false.

Einstein could not prove the Michelson-Morley experiment false, so Einstein set out to prove heliocentrism correct. In order to do so, he had to come up with something to show Michelson-Morley as false (which it wasn't)

Einstein took Henrick Lorentz's theory that Michelson’s apparatus shrunk during the experiment, modified it, added time and distance, and out of nothing, the Special Theory of Relativity was born.

It's all done with mirrors. The only way Einstein and other heliocentrists can make their claims is by claiming everything appears different than it actually does in reality.

Like I said, not you, not Einstein, nor anyone else can prove geocentrism wrong, nor can you prove heliocentrism correct with Empirical evidence.

You still have no idea what Einstein was talking about. In the quote that provided, Einstein was specifically talking about two different coordinate systems for dealing with the solar system. Each is equally valid, one is easier to use than the other under various conditions and neither is a proof for or against anything. Coordinate systems are used by engineers and scientists to model systems and solve problems. They are not proofs.

As to the Soecial Theory of Relativity, Einstein was the first to notice that Newtonian physics did not accurately model the observations of the solar system. He set out to find out why and arrived at his conclusions that have been rigorously tested. However, Relativity has nothing to do with proving heliocentric or geocentric models of the solar system. Relativity deals with time.

Please return to your scriptural arguments as you lack the understanding to deal with actual physics of orbits.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Nope

The following time lapse photo shows the stars moving around Polaris, not us moving:

Also, if the earth tilts (heliocentrist claim), then why is Polaris always directly above the North Pole?

Take a camera and point it up at the night sky. Hold the shutter open and then spin around. Now you have a picture of the universe revolving around you. Why would that be the case?