ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

[Arsenios]

Forgive my few words this evening.
An interior silence has enveloped me
for the past couple of days.

The Great Fast has begun with Meat Fare Sunday yesterday, and Cheese Fare next Sunday, then the near total Fast of Clean Week, and the remaining 33 days of the Great Fast, followed by Holy week... It all adds up to 54 days of preparation for Pascha... This is the very best season of the year for us Orthodox Christians, where we set some Spiritual goal with our Spiritual Father or Mother, and grow in the Faith of Christ... It is a Holy Season...

So I am not surprised that a profound interior silence has been making a home in your soul... It is that Season... Where in the fasting of the body from foods and from passions, helps us to hear, in the silence of the heart, the silent Voice of our God...

You are coming near, my Friend...

The time draws nigh...

The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ in us...

The very Language of that Kingdom is Silence...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

hello Arsenios & Levolor, there is a good new thread with AMR and PPS. coming soon.

I miss much, so PM me when it comes out, OK?

A.

 

[Arsenios]

I was correcting you on your judging by the existence of miracles or not, and you call that Sauls spears.

LA

Miracles CAN witness the Faith, but are not its proof, and are not needed... The proof of the Faith is in the overcoming of sin(s) in one's own soul as one seeks first the Kingdom of Heaven... There are a fair number of folks who seek to surf the waves of Spiritual heights, and end up not making much personal progress in overcoming their own sins, and thus find themselves stalled, in Christ or out...

The Faith of Christ is not about working God's miracles for our fellow man, but is instead about God... And God may or may not work miracles through those who are His servants... And this because they seek to conform themselves, through obedience to Christ, to the Will of God, and at that point, it is no longer they but Christ who works or does not work any particular miracle... Or for that matter even uses them in that capacity at all...

We had a man in our Church that cured medical issues, and went all over the world from Church to Church doing so, and all who came to him were healed... He only came through once... He came to heal, and not to evangellize... No fanfare, no newspaper articles... He just quietly laid a swath of healing wherever he went, and we all simply thanked God and went on with our lives...

Others do far more than he did... Healing medical issues is a tiny and relatively mediocre corner of wonder-working... Most of our Saints do it to some degree... But the real work lies in the Prophetic insights that aid in the comforting of those struggling against sins, and their purification of the heart unto union with God... A greater work than curing a person, say, of diabetes or lung cancer...

Remember the lepers Christ healed? Only one returned to thank Him... The rest were of no consequence... They were only improved to being sinners without leprosy rather than with it...

Arsenios

 

[Livelystone]

I was correcting you on your judging by the existence of miracles or not, and you call that Sauls spears.

LA

I do not judge people by the presence of, or lack of miracles

I judge the leaders of their ministries for whether or not they are teaching the truth

If they are teaching the truth and the church is as a whole walking it out, signs and wonders are guaranteed to appear

If they do not appear it is not the fault of the lay people but of the clergy who is leading them

Get it?

PS: If I am a little sensitive towards you it is your own bloody fault for continually calling me names, attacking my testimony, etc , etc.

 

[Livelystone]

Miracles CAN witness the Faith, but are not its proof, and are not needed... The proof of the Faith is in the overcoming of sin(s) in one's own soul as one seeks first the Kingdom of Heaven... There are a fair number of folks who seek to surf the waves of Spiritual heights, and end up not making much personal progress in overcoming their own sins, and thus find themselves stalled, in Christ or out...

The Faith of Christ is not about working God's miracles for our fellow man, but is instead about God... And God may or may not work miracles through those who are His servants... And this because they seek to conform themselves, through obedience to Christ, to the Will of God, and at that point, it is no longer they but Christ who works or does not work any particular miracle... Or for that matter even uses them in that capacity at all...

We had a man in our Church that cured medical issues, and went all over the world from Church to Church doing so, and all who came to him were healed... He only came through once... He came to heal, and not to evangellize... No fanfare, no newspaper articles... He just quietly laid a swath of healing wherever he went, and we all simply thanked God and went on with our lives...

Others do far more than he did... Healing medical issues is a tiny and relatively mediocre corner of wonder-working... Most of our Saints do it to some degree... But the real work lies in the Prophetic insights that aid in the comforting of those struggling against sins, and their purification of the heart unto union with God... A greater work than curing a person, say, of diabetes or lung cancer...

Remember the lepers Christ healed? Only one returned to thank Him... The rest were of no consequence... They were only improved to being sinners without leprosy rather than with it...

Arsenios

It is never the man who is doing the healing or giving the prophetic insight...... it is the faith in the man that is the faith of Christ that is the Holy Spirit of Christ that heals, gives prophetic insights etc.etc. rather than the faith of any man doing anything.

The faith of Christ in someone is the presence of the truth of Christ in someone. If someones opinion of the foundational doctrines of Christ as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV is the truth, then it is the presence of Christ in them doing the miracle.

This is how it was with the apostles whose presence of Christ in them was so strong their shadow (spirit) emitting from them would heal people as they walked by them

Unfortunately, (but it protects against false miracle workers but does not make up for an audience of persons caught up in the emotion of the moment or being easily fooled) if a persons knowledge about these foundational doctrines is skewered it is an impostor in the person fooling them while they are attempting to work a miracle that will not happen. Then, more often than not the clergy member not worshipping in truth will say something like "it was not the will of God that you be healed," or, there is sin, or lack of faith in you blocking the miracle. For sure its never in their mind the fault of the one attempting the healing. We see this all the time when people are praying and laying hands on someone while saying "be healed in the name of Jesus" but nothing ever happens

 

[oatmeal]

It is never the man who is doing the healing or giving the prophetic insight...... it is the faith in the man that is the faith of Christ that is the Holy Spirit of Christ that heals, gives prophetic insights etc.etc. rather than the faith of any man doing anything.

The faith of Christ in someone is the presence of the truth of Christ in someone. If someones opinion of the foundational doctrines of Christ as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV is the truth, then it is the presence of Christ in them doing the miracle.

This is how it was with the apostles whose presence of Christ in them was so strong their shadow (spirit) emitting from them would heal people as they walked by them

Unfortunately, (but it protects against false miracle workers but does not make up for an audience of persons caught up in the emotion of the moment or being easily fooled) if a persons knowledge about these foundational doctrines is skewered it is an impostor in the person fooling them while they are attempting to work a miracle that will not happen. Then, more often than not the clergy member not worshipping in truth will say something like "it was not the will of God that you be healed," or, there is sin, or lack of faith in you blocking the miracle. For sure its never in their mind the fault of the one attempting the healing. We see this all the time when people are praying and laying hands on someone while saying "be healed in the name of Jesus" but nothing ever happens

Without the gift of holy spirit, the power of God, no man can give healing or do miracles, etc, but who does the miracles?

Who is the one believing God to do God's will?

Acts 8:6 Who did the miracles?

 

[Livelystone]

Without the gift of holy spirit, the power of God, no man can give healing or do miracles, etc, but who does the miracles?

Who is the one believing God to do God's will?

Acts 8:6 Who did the miracles?

I think the words of Jesus give us the right answer

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Even when it came to the miracles God did through Jesus, it was still God who is the Father of the Holy Spirit in us, is the one doing the miracles (works)

 

[Right Divider]

I think the words of Jesus give us the right answer

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Even when it came to the miracles God did through Jesus, it was still God who is the Father of the Holy Spirit in us, is the one doing the miracles (works)

Jesus actually said both.

Joh 5:17-18 KJV But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
​

Note: hitherto means "until now".

 

[Livelystone]

Jesus actually said both.

Joh 5:17-18 KJV But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
​

Note: hitherto means "until now".

I agree, and the reason behind this is the same for both

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The fulness of the Father was/is in Jesus Christ....... this does not make God any less than He always has been......... but it makes for Jesus to become our Father

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

 

[Levolor]

The Great Fast has begun with Meat Fare Sunday yesterday, and Cheese Fare next Sunday, then the near total Fast of Clean Week, and the remaining 33 days of the Great Fast, followed by Holy week... It all adds up to 54 days of preparation for Pascha... This is the very best season of the year for us Orthodox Christians, where we set some Spiritual goal with our Spiritual Father or Mother, and grow in the Faith of Christ... It is a Holy Season...

So I am not surprised that a profound interior silence has been making a home in your soul... It is that Season... Where in the fasting of the body from foods and from passions, helps us to hear, in the silence of the heart, the silent Voice of our God...

You are coming near, my Friend...

The time draws nigh...

The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ in us...

The very Language of that Kingdom is Silence...

Arsenios

This is very pleasing to be aware of.

I'll see if I can partake 'knowingly'.

Seems I am included anyway.

Praise God. Praise God. Praise God.

Hallelujah~

 

[Levolor]

hello Arsenios & Levolor, there is a good new thread with AMR and PPS. coming soon.

We will need to bring, at least I will, need to bring my dictionary and encyclopedia.

Looking forward to the discussion.

 

[patrick jane]

The silence on issues is deafening...

The retreat profound...

The sneering mouths are stopped...

Glory to God in all things!

Remove the claws and fangs,
The insults and snarkiness,
and all that remains is silence...

Not even a conversation...

I do not believe it was ever about a conversation...

It was about personal superiority...

Their bullying was their objective...

I am sincerely and pleasantly astonished that we have not been removed from posting... When the Keatings on Catholic Answers figured out that they were losing their encounters with us [Orthodox Catholics] and that Papal Catholics were converting to Orthodoxy, they got rid of us in a heartbeat, shocked that their dollars were paying for a website that was losing not only the arguments but the falsely led sheep as well...

TOL so far has not gotten rid of us...

- They are pretty much licking their wounds and keeping their heads down... By my standards, that is the right thing for them to do... And shows a lovel of integrity missing on Catholic Answers Forum...

God bless ya, Blind Slats Levelor!

This is a rough medium...

And war is hell...

Arsenios

Speech is human, silence is divine, yet also brutish and dead:therefore we must learn both arts - Thomas Carlyle - (1795-1881). are you at war ? it's LevOlor, btw. - atrol:

 

[oatmeal]

Speech is human, silence is divine, yet also brutish and dead:therefore we must learn both arts - Thomas Carlyle - (1795-1881). are you at war ? it's LevOlor, btw. - atrol:

Well, God did a lot of speaking to Moses, Jeremiah, David, Isaiah and many others throughout scripture

 

[Arsenios]

It is never the man who is doing the healing or giving the prophetic insight...... it is the faith in the man that is the faith of Christ that is the Holy Spirit of Christ that heals, gives prophetic insights etc.etc. rather than the faith of any man doing anything.

It is important in these matters to speak with great consistency and precision... You are saying that it is not the man, but is God, doing the healing and prophesy... And this is right... But you also say that "the faith of Christ is the Holy Spirit of Christ" and this is not true...

And it is also true that one who is reborn of water and of Spirit is no longer merely the "old man" but is also a "new creature", and the BASIS of this new creature-hood is the conjoining of a person's human nature with the Divine Nature where the Holy Spirit is given to that person following Baptism into Christ...

So that in those who have these gifts we find them acting as persons by God's Will as their own... And when this is grasped, one also grasps the essential Mystery of the Faith... It is not human nature that is the source of healing another, but the RENEWED human nature in Christ conjoined with the Holy Spirit that is healing BY GOD's GRACE...

The faith of Christ in someone is the presence of the truth of Christ in someone.

The Faith Christ gave to the Apostles is not propositional truth, even though it is dense with it... He gave Himself to those who live repentant lives in Him, for we are baptized INTO Christ, and we PUT ON Christ...

If someone's opinion of the foundational doctrines of Christ as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV is the truth, then it is the presence of Christ in them doing the miracle.

Personal opinions of Christ's basic tenets make Christ do miracles in them??

You can see the need for precision in language here...

This is how it was with the apostles whose presence of Christ in them was so strong their shadow (spirit) emitting from them would heal people as they walked by them

It was the actual shadow of Peter that healed by the Holy spirit...

Unfortunately, (but it protects against false miracle workers but does not make up for an audience of persons caught up in the emotion of the moment or being easily fooled) if a persons knowledge about these foundational doctrines is skewered it is an impostor in the person fooling them while they are attempting to work a miracle that will not happen. Then, more often than not the clergy member not worshiping in truth will say something like "it was not the will of God that you be healed," or, there is sin, or lack of faith in you blocking the miracle. For sure its never in their mind the fault of the one attempting the healing. We see this all the time when people are praying and laying hands on someone while saying "be healed in the name of Jesus" but nothing ever happens

It is not knowledge about doctrines that creates miracles, and there are always vain practitioners who spiritually try to cover their tracks...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

This is very pleasing to be aware of.

I'll see if I can partake 'knowingly'.

Seems I am included anyway.

Praise God. Praise God. Praise God.

Hallelujah~

Definitely a tad more than a tap on the shoulder...

A.

 

[Arsenios]

it's LevOlor, btw. - atrol:

Patented, that spelling...

Thanks for the correction...

A.

 

[Arsenios]

Well, God did a lot of speaking to Moses, Jeremiah, David, Isaiah and many others throughout scripture

Key is the word "know" as in gnosis, which is an intimacy of union, and not a subject-predicate relationship... To KNOW Christ is to BE one with Him... And knowing Him, you can be one with all things, for through Him were all things created...

Hence to know is to be what or whom is known...

It's a whole 'nother matter from the fallen knowing of the intellect seeking to control by manipulation fallen man's created and fallen environment... This knowing of the Most Pure God can only take place in a person who is himself or herself purified, and Paul writes: "We are holding the Mystery of the Faith in a purified conscience... We have the Nous of Christ..." These are experiential matters, not inaccessible to man reborn into Christ...

We are not given the revelation of God to Moses, if it was spoken or not... It could very well have been given to him without words... In orthodoxy, the dogmatics of the Faith of Christ are empirical to the purified heart of the one apprehending them... Precious few do, but even one in a thousand is some... And some have written about it...

Arsenios

 

[oatmeal]

Key is the word "know" as in gnosis, which is an intimacy of union, and not a subject-predicate relationship... To KNOW Christ is to BE one with Him... And knowing Him, you can be one with all things, for through Him were all things created...

Hence to know is to be what or whom is known...

It's a whole 'nother matter from the fallen knowing of the intellect seeking to control by manipulation fallen man's created and fallen environment... This knowing of the Most Pure God can only take place in a person who is himself or herself purified, and Paul writes: "We are holding the Mystery of the Faith in a purified conscience... We have the Nous of Christ..." These are experiential matters, not inaccessible to man reborn into Christ...

We are not given the revelation of God to Moses, if it was spoken or not... It could very well have been given to him without words... In orthodoxy, the dogmatics of the Faith of Christ are empirical to the purified heart of the one apprehending them... Precious few do, but even one in a thousand is some... And some have written about it...

Arsenios

I am familiar with the concept of gnosis, although I do not understand why that is pertinent to my post.

Oh, I know how God communicated to Moses and others on many occasions.

The Lord spoke to them.

Exodus 4:1-17;6:1-2;7:14;12:1 etc.....

I Samuel 3:11

II Kings 7:4-5

Job 40:1

Isaiah 8:1

Need more? See Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.....

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I do not judge people by the presence of, or lack of miracles

I judge the leaders of their ministries for whether or not they are teaching the truth

If they are teaching the truth and the church is as a whole walking it out, signs and wonders are guaranteed to appear

If they do not appear it is not the fault of the lay people but of the clergy who is leading them

Get it?

PS: If I am a little sensitive towards you it is your own bloody fault for continually calling me names, attacking my testimony, etc , etc.

Nay,

You attacked me for pointing out your error in your judging by the absence of miracles in the churches, when you have no way of knowing all of the churches.

Your testimony is what happened to you, but I pointed out to you that a near death experience does not prove you are saved especially in your reliance upon the words of a witch.

You have formed your whole understanding of the state of the dead on your experience when the Bible says Christ returns to raise the dead, and Christ said he would return in order that his disciples would be with Him.

Your doctrine contradicts everything Gods word says on the matter and that is why you get so dirty with me in your replies.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

LA

 

[Livelystone]

Nay,

You attacked me for pointing out your error in your judging by the absence of miracles in the churches, when you have no way of knowing all of the churches.

Your testimony is what happened to you, but I pointed out to you that a near death experience does not prove you are saved especially in your reliance upon the words of a witch.

You have formed your whole understanding of the state of the dead on your experience when the Bible says Christ returns to raise the dead, and Christ said he would return in order that his disciples would be with Him.

Your doctrine contradicts everything Gods word says on the matter and that is why you get so dirty with me in your replies.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

LA

You are full of it.

According to you my testimony is a sham and satan fooled me

Until you learn to tell the truth you are on ignore