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Not per the "eenie meenie miney mo" version of Calvinism.
ECT Does Romans 9 support Individual Election?
- Thread starter Potter's Clay
- Start date
No - the passage says they are predestinated IN HIM.
Like that airplane trip example, I have posted on here in times past.
An Airline predetermines it's planes' various destinations, etc.
It is that airplane that has been predestinated - by said Airline.
You hear the gospel or good news of a great price on a trip to some far off exotic place.
The moment you buy a ticket, you are THEN made a member of that plane's predestinated flight - of it's predetermined destination.
Yours is THEN said to be a possession of said purchase, sealed by that Airline's spirit of promise, until the day of said ticket's redemption.
Every passage on this issue points to this.
To the fact of how that all of that begins in the Believer, begins IN him or her only AFTER said individual is IN Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
All aboard!
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
Nang
TOL Subscriber
No - Ephesians 1:4 says God "chose us (gr. eklegomai) in Him" and then, according to the " good purpose of His will," predestined us for adoption (vs. 5). .
the "us" being all the saints. (vs. 1)
ALL spiritual blessings were received "in the heavenly places in Christ . . before the foundation of the world" (vss 3-4).
So your fantasy is unbiblical and wrong.
The only fantasy here is yours.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN Christ:
Like what, for example?
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
What was this choosing unto?
That we should live holy or set apart, and, without blame before Him in love.
That is the issue of service or Sonship.
Which is what election is - the issue of servanthood.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Continuing on in Eph. 1...
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Adoption is the issue of a child being acknowledged as no longer a child but a Son.
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Again, what that is, is then defined...
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Here is election and adoption in Scripture...
Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
In other words, they are no more the children of wrath.
They are now Sons of God.
They are to act accordingly.
Think the Hebrew concept of Bar Mitzvah Galatians 4 borrows from in it's illustration.
In other words, no more merely children, but the Accountability of Sons, now - Sons of God in Christ, and no more the children of this dark world, but Ability unto said Sonship in Him.
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Philippians 2:15 That ye may be
blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Man o man has your obvious over reliance on books "about" done a number on your understanding of this, nang.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12.
Who is non-predestination through?
hehe!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Holiness is Sanctification and being without blame is Justification. Both doctrines are the works of the grace of God.
Not human works of "service"
Individual election is Sonship.
Which occurs only by being chosen in Christ. Christ is the Elect Servant.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
All fulfilled by the Incarnate Christ who, in the flesh federally represented all those chosen for redemption and given to Him before creation. John 10:27-29
Interplanner
Well-known member
God wants everyone to believe on the Son, to be in Him, who is the Elect one. They are saved by being in Him. Those who decide to be out of him are not elect.