ECT Do those who believe MAD have no problem disregarding what Jesus actually taught ?

[Right Divider]

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I guess ALL nations according to you was Jews. Are you really that blind ?

opcorn::

:thumb: Their mission clearly got interrupted. Are you so blind as not to see that?
Paul says that there is ONE baptism and that ONE has NO water. :wave2:

 

[dodge]

Hi , and I will always use the KJV !!

So you NEVER explained 1 Cor 15:29 , OR do you have a problem with that BAPTISM for the DEAD !!

Here is another one you will never ANSWER , where we are BAPTIZED into Christ death , in Rom 6:3 and let me know when you give UP . and I will explain what TRANSLITERATION means !!

dan p

5. (1Co 15:29-32) More reasons to believe in the principle of resurrection.

Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!"

a. Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead to not rise at all? What was being baptized for the dead? It is a mysterious passage, and there have been more than thirty different attempts to interpret it.

i. The plain meaning of the original language is that some people are being baptized on behalf of those who have died. Paul's point is "If there is no resurrection, why are they doing this? What is the point if there is no life after death?"

ii. Significantly, Paul does not say, "we baptize for the dead," but asks what will they do who are baptized for the dead, and Why then are they baptized for the dead? Therefore, Paul is referring to a pagan custom of vicarious baptism for the dead. "Paul simply mentions the superstitious custom without approving it and uses it to fortify his argument that there is a resurrection from the dead." (Mare)

iii. Paul certainly does not approve of the practice; he merely says that if there is no resurrection, why would the custom take place? The Mormon practice of baptism for the dead is neither Scriptural nor sensible.

iv. Paul's point is plain: "The pagans even believe in the resurrection because they baptize for the dead. The pagans have the sense to believe in resurrection, but some of you Corinthian Christians do not!"

v. Clarke said of this verse, "This is certainly the most difficult verse in the New Testament; for, notwithstanding the greatest and wisest of men have laboured to explain it, there are to this day nearly as many different interpretations of it as there are interpreters."


https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_1Cr/1Cr_15.cfm?a=1077029

 

[dodge]

:thumb: Their mission clearly got interrupted. Are you so blind as not to see that?
Paul says that there is ONE baptism and that ONE has NO water. :wave2:

Jesus was baptized in water as was the eunuch as was everyone else that followed Jesus. I believe you really have zero clue.

Keep on making excuses to ignore Jesus and disobey Him in the least that He commanded and we will see how that works out for you.

 

[dodge]

Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
Matthew 10:23 (KJV)

So now a city is a nation . When did that change I must have missed that ?

 

[DAN P]

5. (1Co 15:29-32) More reasons to believe in the principle of resurrection.

Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!"

a. Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead to not rise at all? What was being baptized for the dead? It is a mysterious passage, and there have been more than thirty different attempts to interpret it.

i. The plain meaning of the original language is that some people are being baptized on behalf of those who have died. Paul's point is "If there is no resurrection, why are they doing this? What is the point if there is no life after death?"

ii. Significantly, Paul does not say, "we baptize for the dead," but asks what will they do who are baptized for the dead, and Why then are they baptized for the dead? Therefore, Paul is referring to a pagan custom of vicarious baptism for the dead. "Paul simply mentions the superstitious custom without approving it and uses it to fortify his argument that there is a resurrection from the dead." (Mare)

iii. Paul certainly does not approve of the practice; he merely says that if there is no resurrection, why would the custom take place? The Mormon practice of baptism for the dead is neither Scriptural nor sensible.

iv. Paul's point is plain: "The pagans even believe in the resurrection because they baptize for the dead. The pagans have the sense to believe in resurrection, but some of you Corinthian Christians do not!"

v. Clarke said of this verse, "This is certainly the most difficult verse in the New Testament; for, notwithstanding the greatest and wisest of men have laboured to explain it, there are to this day nearly as many different interpretations of it as there are interpreters."


https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_1Cr/1Cr_15.cfm?a=1077029

Hi amd you are saying that BAPTISM saves , BEFOR we die OR after we DIE ?

And the BAPTISM for the DEAD is Water Baptism ??

dan p

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

So now a city is a nation . When did that change I must have missed that ?

If they do not finish going over the cities of Israel until the LORD returns, it makes sense that they would not be going into all nations until the LORD returns.

Sixth Grade English.

 

[Danoh]

Jesus was baptized in water as was the eunuch as was everyone else that followed Jesus. I believe you really have zero clue.

Keep on making excuses to ignore Jesus and disobey Him in the least that He commanded and we will see how that works out for you.

The sound byte by sound byte method does not work with you.

Though, I doubt an entire piece on this issue would get through to you. You'd really have to want to know if you are actually right or wrong.

But, like those who in their "one size fits all" ignorance - who right off conclude the sound byte method works towards reaching one and all through that method alone - you...are also stuck in your "one size fits all."

 

[Danoh]

If they do not finish going over the cities of Israel until the LORD returns, it makes sense that they would not be going into all nations until the LORD returns.

Sixth Grade English.

Watch dodge...dodge that - watch its's ball...go right over his head...

 

[dodge]

Hi amd you are saying that BAPTISM saves , BEFOR we die OR after we DIE ?

And the BAPTISM for the DEAD is Water Baptism ??

dan p

I see you never read what I posted !

Jesus said to be baptized, and no argument will change that. Call it spiritual, raise an issue about baptized for the dead and that changes NOTHING. Jesus said to be baptized so His followers get baptized.

 

[dodge]

If they do not finish going over the cities of Israel until the LORD returns, it makes sense that they would not be going into all nations until the LORD returns.

Sixth Grade English.

Jesus said:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So Jesus never knew the difference between a nation and a city according to some. Got ya.

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus was baptized in water as was the eunuch as was everyone else that followed Jesus. I believe you really have zero clue.

You are the one that is clueless as to what WATER baptism was and why it is COMPLETELY inappropriate for members of the body of Christ.

Keep on making excuses to ignore Jesus and disobey Him in the least that He commanded and we will see how that works out for you.

Let me know when you've obeyed Luke 12:33 KJV

 

[DAN P]

I see you never read what I posted !

Jesus said to be baptized, and no argument will change that. Call it spiritual, raise an issue about baptized for the dead and that changes NOTHING. Jesus said to be baptized so His followers get baptized.

Hi and today we FOLLOW Paul as he follows Jesus , in 1 Cor 12:1 !!

Baptism was given to the Jews , in Matt 3 and Acts 19:4 , BAPTISM is coupled with REPENTANCE and in Acts 26:20 and WORKS accompany REPENTANCE !!

i BELIEVE only Israel could Repent !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

5. (1Co 15:29-32) More reasons to believe in the principle of resurrection.

Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!"

a. Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead to not rise at all? What was being baptized for the dead? It is a mysterious passage, and there have been more than thirty different attempts to interpret it.

i. The plain meaning of the original language is that some people are being baptized on behalf of those who have died. Paul's point is "If there is no resurrection, why are they doing this? What is the point if there is no life after death?"

ii. Significantly, Paul does not say, "we baptize for the dead," but asks what will they do who are baptized for the dead, and Why then are they baptized for the dead? Therefore, Paul is referring to a pagan custom of vicarious baptism for the dead. "Paul simply mentions the superstitious custom without approving it and uses it to fortify his argument that there is a resurrection from the dead." (Mare)

iii. Paul certainly does not approve of the practice; he merely says that if there is no resurrection, why would the custom take place? The Mormon practice of baptism for the dead is neither Scriptural nor sensible.

iv. Paul's point is plain: "The pagans even believe in the resurrection because they baptize for the dead. The pagans have the sense to believe in resurrection, but some of you Corinthian Christians do not!"

v. Clarke said of this verse, "This is certainly the most difficult verse in the New Testament; for, notwithstanding the greatest and wisest of men have laboured to explain it, there are to this day nearly as many different interpretations of it as there are interpreters."


https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_1Cr/1Cr_15.cfm?a=1077029

Not bad...

Personally, though, I always prefer to sort such things out for myself. Just me and the Scripture.

For how much I learn along the way...about how to sort such things out.

About what principles sorting such things out requires one rely on.

Principles built right into the passages themselves.

Principles the passage's assertions point back to as their origin.

As one brilliant individual among the best, has often put it - "it's just a matter of fine tuning backwards."

Even the atheist: Freud, wisely noted that "within every belief, lies the history of its' origin."

To which the Apostle Paul might have responded "This witness is true..."

Give me a Bible and the above principle, and I have all the "resources" ANY Believer could ever need...

Nehemiah 8:8, via Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11-12; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; etc.

 

[john w]

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Jesus said to be baptized , and that is good enough for me.

Now if you want to do your own thing and ignore a command of Jesus then that is on YOU.

Now you know why I stay with the KJV.

"Jesus said to be baptized , and that is good enough for me."

Sell all you have, leave all, then.

Fraud.

 

[Right Divider]

If they do not finish going over the cities of Israel until the LORD returns, it makes sense that they would not be going into all nations until the LORD returns.

Sixth Grade English.

Second Grade Logic... :cigar:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Reading your posts you sure had me fooled.



IF the Jews have grace plus works for salvation then the Apostle John would be a liar. You know for by grace have you been saved trough faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast.

I understand in your belief system "any" only means "some".




Since Jesus' teachings have been relegated to be in subservience to Paul's teachings by, Madist, I am sure you have no clue what the following verse actually says.


Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I also never knew that" whosoever" meant only Jews, according to Madist.

I guess gentiles must not have been on the world at the time Jesus said the above ,according to Madist.

Matthew through John was pertaining to the House of Israel. They were under "The Kingdom Message" being taught by Christ and His Apostles. When Paul came around, he preached "The Grace Message" to the Gentiles, which is the same message being preached today, to both the Gentile and the Jew.

 

[Ac28]

Spoken like a true Acts 28er, bro.

Thus, the thank you of the Almost 28er: STP :chuckle:

P.s. Personally, I disagree with you - just about everything Paul wrote of in his later epistles is found in his earlier epistles and vice versa.

You and the Almost 28ers just use a very similar approach.

By the way, do you also conclude that Romans 2:17 is referring to the Romans as proselytes, as the Almost 28ers erroneously do?

Thanks, in advance.

You rarely agree with me. I'm not going to get bogged down in the "things that differ" (TTD) thing, as least on the smaller points. I think I told you once that I have a total of 37 pages of those type lists from several different authors, although I think one of them lists things that are the same at the beginning and the end of Acts. About 15 years ago, I spent about 2 years on TOL and 90% of the debate was on TTD, No one EVER wins those things.

TOL, like most Christian forums, is strictly a debate venue. It's nitpicky and fault-finding, in the main. No one ever changes their spots and the only things learned are from boning up on one's own speciality so you won't look like a fool. For some reason, though, it definitely has a lure about it and I do enjoy the bantering.

The most important TTD related items are "is the BOC in Paul's post-Acts epistles the same as the church in 1 Cor 12?" and the question of "whether the calling in Paul's post-Acts epistles is the same as the calling in Paul's Acts epistles." I am very willing to discuss both these subjects.

Romans 2:17 Paul is definitely talking to the Jews here - he's starting to strip them of the (false) props they think they have and deserve. There are a few chapters in Romans written to the Jews. although I couldn't tell you exactly which ones with spending some time on it. Romans is the Ephesians of the old dead (for now) dispensation found in Acts and I don't spend as much time in it as I used to.

BTW, it's like pulling teeth to be able to post in the MAD section. I had my 25 posts several days ago and I then immediately applied. Still no access.

 

[dodge]

Second Grade Logic... :cigar:

Mar 10:15
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 

[Crucible]

You are the one that is clueless as to what WATER baptism was and why it is COMPLETELY inappropriate for members of the body of Christ.

This is the most cringe-worthy statement I've heard in a while.
Good job 'Right Divider', you've now been promoted to 'Chopping the Bible to Pieces'.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

This is the most cringe-worthy statement I've heard in a while.
Good job 'Right Divider', you've now been promoted to 'Chopping the Bible to Pieces'.

:chuckle: