ECT Do those who believe MAD believe the Apostle Paul was a liar ?

[dodge]

You have been taught wrong.

Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses whom he saves, he says he saves those who obey him.

Jesus cleans us all on his own and reconciles us to God all on his own, but AGAIN, HE TELLS US to whom he does this, and it is to those who obey him.

All people need to decide if they want some false teaching from man, or if they want God's Truth.

You do not believe Ephesians 2:8-10, and that is NOT the teaching of men it is God's word ?

 

[God's Truth]

You do not believe Ephesians 2:8-10, and that is NOT the teaching of men it is God's word ?

How many times do I have to explain it to you? Why don't you reply to what I said? Why do you merely come back with a question that is ludicrous?

This is what Ephesians 2:8-10 says:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved,


We have to enter grace BY FAITH. BY LIVING FAITH.

See Romans 5:2, James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.


through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


These are the works the Jews used to have to do to be called a child of God, to be able to enter the temple where His Spirit was:


The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Notice that Paul explains that we do good works after we are saved. There are people who after being saved invited the apostles for dinner, gave them a place to sleep, probably washed their clothes and gave them money. Those kinds of works people do after they are saved, but one still had to obey to get saved. We have to humble ourselves and repent of our sins.

 

[Nick M]

What part of "that we should walk in them" is not clear to you?

I understand it. Apparently you don't. God does not see good works from the dead flesh. You walk in his good works. What part of they were prepared before hand do no you not understand.

Clearly you also don't understand Romans 6. I am a slave to righteousness. I now know you are not. Of course you showed your hand promoting evil as good, so I already new. And now you equate salvation with dead works.

 

[God's Truth]

I understand it. Apparently you don't. God does not see good works from the dead flesh.

What makes flesh dead? What makes flesh dead is disobedience. We need the Spirit to make our spirits more alive and not dead to sin and to not knowing God. Those who obey are known to God. Those who obey have Spirit and life.

You walk in his good works. What part of they were prepared before hand do no you not understand.

Danoh goes against obedience. He doesn't really teach obedience like he should. He is a madist and yet is not.

Clearly you also don't understand Romans 6. I am a slave to righteousness. I now know you are not. Of course you showed your hand promoting evil as good, so I already new. And now you equate salvation with dead works.

It is not dead works to do God's works. God's works is that we do what Jesus says.

 

[Nick M]

What makes flesh dead?

I am not posting this for the demon possessed pervert above. It is in case somebody else reads it.

Romans 5

17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

All men go to hell automatically because of Adam. The gift of life to us is offered, and we only receive life through his righteous ace. Absolutely nothing good or bad has any bearing on your eternal fate.

Not you say? He says right there through one mans offense condemnation came to all. Even over those of you who claim you do good.

4 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

 

[Danoh]

I understand it. Apparently you don't. God does not see good works from the dead flesh. You walk in his good works. What part of they were prepared before hand do no you not understand.

Clearly you also don't understand Romans 6. I am a slave to righteousness. I now know you are not. Of course you showed your hand promoting evil as good, so I already new. And now you equate salvation with dead works.

Nope - God neither sees nor accepts good works from the dead flesh.

And the Believer does not automatically walk in His good works, rather; he is to work said good works out that God has both called him unto, and enabled him to walk in.

Try a little Rom. 12:1-3; bigot

You fail miserably in that.

You are no slave to righteousness.

If anything, you are clearly a slave to your own self-centeredness.

You're an extremist, is what you are.

As for my supposed promoting of evil; you only assert you are Conservative.

Truth of the matter - you voted for that vile individual now in the WH because he expresses your exact bigotry.

You are the one promoting an evil.

Actual Conservatives took issue with Trump from day one, sold out, out of pressure, and are now supposedly finding their spine thanks only to Trump's gradually proving they were right about him when they first opposed him.

Get over yourself, Nick.

It is hight time you quit being the hypocrite everyone on TOL but your own knows you to be and start working out your salvation in your dealings with others that the Lord has placed in you, has called you unto, has enabled in you, and desires that you walk in by faith, in contrast to, and over your obvious bondage to your in the flesh, live as you please.

Eternally saved, and yet, so as by fire - that is you at this point.

Try a little reverence for your Saviour, in contrast to your daily belligerence on TOL.

Til then, I'm done with you.

Godly sorrow worketh repentence not to be repented of - try it sometime.

 

[Right Divider]

Read the scripture more carefully. If it were as you say that no one has to do anything, then ALL WOULD BE SAVED.

Nonsense, per your usual.

It says MANY and not ALL.

You can't even read.

However, all are not saved. We must do something to get that gift. We have to do something to ENTER that grace.

That is correct. We must RECEIVE the FREE GIFT.

Your problem is that you want "chip in". You want to PAY for your FREE GIFT.

If you PAY.... it's NOT a FREE GIFT.

For one thing, we have to have faith to enter, see Romans 5:2, and that faith cannot be dead, see James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

You always want to join with the LAW apostles. The ONES that were UNDER the law.

God gives the gift to His children. You have to establish yourself as His child. How do you do that? Jesus tells us how to do that.

He sure does and He does it through PAUL today. We are not Israelite's under the LAW. We are the body of Christ (if you want to join us).

The Jews used to have to work at purifying themselves. We do not have to work at purifying ourselves, but we still have to obey.

You think that you're something special. I'll stick with 100% grace thanks.

 

[Tambora]

Why don't you reply to what I said? Why do you merely come back with a question that is ludicrous?

The irony.

 

[Tambora]

Rom 5:18-19 (KJV)​

(5:18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. (5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
​

You are NOT the one.

Amen!

 

[God's Truth]

Nonsense, per your usual.

It says MANY and not ALL.

You can't even read.

So you agree that we have to do something?!

You said if we have to do something then it is not free.

Faith is work and it is something and it is dead if not accompanied by right action.

Even Abraham's faith was tested and proved good by what he did.

Do you think I have all these wise things to say on my own? No, it is it the Bible.

James says it, as well as others in the Bible.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

That is correct. We must RECEIVE the FREE GIFT.

Your problem is that you want "chip in". You want to PAY for your FREE GIFT.

If you PAY.... it's NOT a FREE GIFT.

Jesus chooses to whom he gives the gift.

Do you just go around giving free gifts to anyone?

How about you go give some free gifts to some people who do wrong?

Tell me, if you were going to have important company come stay with you, maybe an older relative, would you not clean your house and get prepared for their arrival?

You always want to join with the LAW apostles. The ONES that were UNDER the law.

Paul says he is under God's law.

Why don't you recognize that there is a new law?

I gave you many scriptures.

He sure does and He does it through PAUL today. We are not Israelite's under the LAW. We are the body of Christ (if you want to join us).

I am in the body of Christ. It is what Jesus taught when he walked the earth.

If you are obeying Jesus, then you are with us, except you need to stop going against us.

You think that you're something special. I'll stick with 100% grace thanks.

I am just trying to help others to have what I have.

If you already have it, then fine, but why sound like Cain? Cain didn't like Abel because he thought Abel thought he was something special.

 

[dodge]

God's Truth;4965528]How many times do I have to explain it to you? Why don't you reply to what I said? Why do you merely come back with a question that is ludicrous?

What is ludicrous is you have changed the context and meaning of the verses. You have changed it to grace through works and that is not what it says.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Works are an act of obedience and the works do not save those already saved. Saved folks who are created in Christ Jesus those doing the good works are people that are already saved.

You have switched the meaning and context of Ephesians 2:8-10 to make it say by your works you are saved, and that is NOT what it says it says by Grace through faith NOT Grace through works.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not posting this for the demon possessed pervert above. It is in case somebody else reads it.

Romans 5

17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

All men go to hell automatically because of Adam.

No, not all men go to hell because of Adam. Because of Adam, we are separated from God because of sin.

That means we are inclined to negativity.

We must learn about God.

We do not just know Him automatically.

Sin separates us from God, and Jesus came to deal with sin and reconcile us to God.

That does not mean we only have to believe and not obey.

That does not make any sense.

The gift of life to us is offered, and we only receive life through his righteous ace. Absolutely nothing good or bad has any bearing on your eternal fate.

Why do you say that when the Bible says the message is given to those who do right?


Acts 10:26 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.


That is Paul saying that.

I thought you listened to Paul.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Look deeper than what you are used to.

 

[God's Truth]

What is ludicrous is you have changed the context and meaning of the verses. You have changed it to grace through works and that is not what it says.




Works are an act of obedience and the works do not save those already saved. Saved folks who are created in Christ Jesus those doing the good works are people that are already saved.

You have switched the meaning and context of Ephesians 2:8-10 to make it say by your works you are saved, and that is NOT what it says it says by Grace through faith NOT Grace through works.

No, you say Paul changed what Jesus says.

Go think about it some more.

 

[God's Truth]

We have a bunch of ensnared people here who go against me for preaching obedience to Jesus.

They speak against Paul and claim it is because of Paul.

Tell me why Peter says people misunderstand Paul.

Could it be because they do as you do and claim Paul preaches faith only?

Yeah that is what they did way back then too.

 

[Right Divider]

So you agree that we have to do something?!

You said if we have to do something then it is not free.

Faith is work and it is something and it is dead if not accompanied by right action.

Even Abraham's faith was tested and proved good by what he did.

Abram's faith was counted for righteousness BEFORE he was tested. You just love to argue AGAINST the scripture.

Rom 4:1-5 (KJV)​

(4:1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (4:2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. (4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ​

Notice that it was TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT that his faith was counted for righteousness.

What is the IT in verse 3?

In verse 5, Paul shows that believing is NOT WORK.

Do you think I have all these wise things to say on my own? No, it is it the Bible.

James says it, as well as others in the Bible.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

James was ONE of the twelve apostle for the twelve tribes of Israel. You want so badly to be a fake Israelite.

Jesus chooses to whom he gives the gift.

Do you just go around giving free gifts to anyone?

Bogus question conceived by a childish mind.

How about you go give some free gifts to some people who do wrong?

Comparing human gift giving to God's give of eternal life is a foolish and childish thing to do.

Tell me, if you were going to have important company come stay with you, maybe an older relative, would you not clean your house and get prepared for their arrival?

Another conception of an unsaved mind.

Paul says he is under God's law.

Why don't you recognize that there is a new law?

I gave you many scriptures.

You totally confuse law and grace.

I am in the body of Christ. It is what Jesus taught when he walked the earth.

If you are obeying Jesus, then you are with us, except you need to stop going against us.

You are not a member of His body because you reject entrance by grace through faith.

You want to get paid for your "obedience". You are NOT the one who's obedience God accepts.

I am just trying to help others to have what I have.

Hell?

If you already have it, then fine, but why sound like Cain? Cain didn't like Abel because he thought Abel thought he was something special.

:juggle:

 

[God's Truth]

Abram's faith was counted for righteousness BEFORE he was tested.

Abraham OBEYED from the beginning:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

You just love to argue AGAINST the scripture.

Rom 4:1-5 (KJV)​

(4:1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (4:2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. (4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ​

Paul is differentiating between circumcision/purification works from faith with obedience.

Notice that it was TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT that his faith was counted for righteousness.

That is about circumcision. Circumcision is the sign for all the purification/ceremonial works.

What is the IT in verse 3?

In verse 5, Paul shows that believing is NOT WORK.

Believing is something and it is a work, as the scriptures say.

James was ONE of the twelve apostle for the twelve tribes of Israel. You want so badly to be a fake Israelite.

Who has the nerve to say that any one of the apostles can lead us to hell?

Bogus question conceived by a childish mind.


Comparing human gift giving to God's give of eternal life is a foolish and childish thing to do.


Another conception of an unsaved mind.


You totally confuse law and grace.

That is you.

You are not a member of His body because you reject entrance by grace through faith.

You want to get paid for you "obedience". You are NOT the one who's obedience God accepts.


Hell?


:juggle:

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

 

[Right Divider]

Abraham OBEYED from the beginning:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

The Bible does NOT say that Abraham was declared righteous by his actions or obedience, but by his FAITH!

Gen 15:1-6 (KJV)​

(15:1) After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward. (15:2) And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house [is] this Eliezer of Damascus? (15:3) And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. (15:4) And, behold, the word of the LORD [came] unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. (15:5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. (15:6) And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. ​

It's completely clear, by you're self-righteous and want to have YOUR works counted.

 

[steko]

Abraham OBEYED from the beginning:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.



Paul is differentiating between circumcision/purification works from faith with obedience.



That is about circumcision. Circumcision is the sign for all the purification/ceremonial works.



Believing is something and it is a work, as the scriptures say.


Who has the nerve to say that any one of the apostles can lead us to hell?




That is you.



Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

There are rewards for the believer but salvation is not a reward....it's a gift.

 

[john w]

We have a bunch of ensnared people here who go against me for preaching obedience to Jesus.

They speak against Paul and claim it is because of Paul.

Tell me why Peter says people misunderstand Paul.

Could it be because they do as you do and claim Paul preaches faith only?

Yeah that is what they did way back then too.

"Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone.....We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus' teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says....I obey everything thay Jesus says....”-God’sUNTruth

 

[dodge]

No, you say Paul changed what Jesus says.

Go think about it some more.

YOU nor anyone can EARN salvation ! You have bought into a lie.

Abraham BELIEVED i.e. faith before he DID anything.

Jas 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.