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Perverter?? Really?? Apparently you see this as your time to show yourself as the b...... child you are.. Thanks for the reminder. <Ignore button hit>
ECT Dispensation of Grace
- Thread starter turbosixx
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Perverter?? Really?? Apparently you see this as your time to show yourself as the b...... child you are.. Thanks for the reminder. <Ignore button hit>
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What an incredibly lame and incorrect "understanding".
The "should HEREAFTER believe" shows that Paul is NOT talking about his "position" as the chief of sinners.
turbosixx
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Does Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering point to him talking about how his is "chief" sinner? That's the whole context.
13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
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Indeed, this is why Paul is the pattern for THIS dispensation of the grace of God.
A pattern comes BEFORE the things made in the MODEL of the PATTERN.
It's really simple, but you reject it before you even look at it.
turbosixx
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I have looked at the pattern to see how someone is saved. This is the pattern I see in scripture.
This is the pattern Jesus gave for those who would be his disciples.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Before Acts 9:
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
After Acts 9:
Acts 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household had been baptized,
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
Can you show me the pattern your talking about because I see that even Paul was baptized just as Jesus had instructed.
Acts 22:16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'
Then go get baptized and you've figured it all out !
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Dispensation is nothing but the dispensing of time.
Wrong. In Paul's case, it's a dispensation of information from Christ Jesus
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A giving out of info. in a period of time allotted him in which to do so..
Try reading it again for first time. . . for understanding this time.
turbosixx
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Where do you think the apostles got the information? The reason they didn't need a revealation is because they were eye witnesses. Paul wasn't.
turbosixx
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This isn't showing me the error in my thinking.
Paul was met by the RISEN CHRIST. Big difference
turbosixx
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They weren't met but they ate and drank with the RISEN CHRIST, 40 days.
Acts 10:39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
To be clear I should have stated that Paul met the ASCENDED CHRIST, Big difference. The funny thing is I know what all your responses will be. If you read Acts and Romans through Timothy you will see that when the Jews refused the gospel again after the ascension, Paul was sent the Gentiles and all the world. You're stuck and you seem happy and content with your views, why not shut up and go believe what you will ?
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Funny, I know what your response is going to be as well.
turbosixx
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Wrong again. RISEN Christ is important to establish him as Lord and Savior.
1 Cor. 15: 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
His ascension before Pentecost is not important pertaining to the gospel, he is the same whether on earth or in Heaven. The only ascension that matters pertaining to the gospel is:
Jn. 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
You can be happy believing what you want as well, but I won't tell you to shut up. Are you so sure you have is all figured out? Please, point out my error.
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Once again, the reason that you see it THIS way is because you cannot believe that God can do things any other way.
Have you never noticed the WORDS and the LANGUAGE that Paul uses that is INCOMPATIBLE with the idea that he just taught what other where teaching?
1Ti 1:11 KJV According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
Rom 2:16 KJV In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25 KJV Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 KJV Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
How can Paul make the MY GOSPEL claim? And how can folks like you just ignore it or explain away? Do you think that he was proud or arrogant?Rom 2:16 KJV In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25 KJV Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 KJV Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
BTW, none of the TWELVE apostles for the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL ever made such a claim.
This was told to TWELVE (actually eleven at that time) men of ISRAEL. This is not a pattern for today. Read the larger passage IN CONTEXT.
Mar 16:14-20 KJV Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
This the PATTERN for THEM and Israel going into the time of Jacobs trouble. Why do you believe that you can intrude upon this pattern? Can you drink deadly things and live? Are you healing people?Yes, one of the TWELVE apostles for the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL baptizing with water. Nothing to see here.
You will NOT find the gospel of the grace of God OR the preaching of the cross in Acts1-8. It's just not there.
You will find Peter:
- accusing Israel of murder
- speaking to men of Israel
- speaking to men of Judea
- preaching prophecy for Israel
- healing EVERYONE
- speaking about covenants that God made with Israel
- holding all things in common
- going daily to the temple
As you were shown before, Paul said that Jesus "was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:", but you ignore these critically import Bible FACTS.
Once AGAIN, I will remind you that Paul did NOT receive ALL revelation on DAY ONE! Paul received SOME revelation right away and SOME LATER. Apparently God even told him about this.
2Co 12:1 KJV It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
God singled out Paul for "special knowledge" and Paul was given a "dispensation of the gospel".
Eph 3:1-7 KJV For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) (5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
If Paul is teaching the SAME things, why does he constantly SINGLE HIMSELF OUT as the one who received these things.
You do realize that THIS passage in Acts 22 is a RECALLING of what happened in Acts 9, right? It's OLD news. Paul receive NEW news after that.
You said that you "really" wanted to learn about MAD, but you actually prefer to stick with the myths of "Christendom".
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We'll PJ, you haven't let me down.
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Jesus was not yet glorified at that time. The only thing remotely similar was when the three apostles saw Jesus on the high mountain.
Mat 17:1-3 KJV And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, (2) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. (3) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
This was the Jesus Christ that Paul saw! The RISEN AND GLORIFIED Jesus Christ. This is why he was blinded for three days.
turbosixx
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If you could help me to understand how you see this. If the 12 taught one gospel and Paul taught another what categories do people fall into?
Is the nation of Israel still God's chosen people?
Are Christians God's chosen people?
A Jew who rejects Christ, are they still one of God's chosen people?
Someone who heard the 12 and believed and were baptized, what are they?
What are those who reads and believes the message of the 12 today?
And of course someone (Jew or Gentile) who heard/reads and believes Paul is a Christian and is part of the body.