ECT Dispensation of Grace

[Right Divider]

No I don’t think they were dumb at all but you have to consider their situation. They didn’t have the complete revealed word as we do. They really didn’t understand a lot of things that were happening. For example, how many times did Jesus tell them he was going to die and rise again the third day and they had prophecies about it yet what do we see?
Jn. 20:8 So the other disciple who had first come to the tomb then also entered, and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. 10 So the disciples went away again to their own homes.

This is exactly the position that MAD takes. There were SOME things that were revealed FIRST to Paul. And SOME of these things were NEW and DIFFERENT. This is why Peter can say this:

2Pe 3:15-16 KJV And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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So many people brush off or ignore the subtleties of scripture, but Peter tells us that there was wisdom given to Paul. Note that he does NOT says US.

Those to whom Peter was writing where questioning the delay in the coming of the kingdom and Peter uses Paul's wisdom to explain the delay.

Most of the time, it was only after the fact that they were able to piece things together and understand or Jesus either had to open their minds or they had to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Luke 24:44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
Jn. 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

So no, I’m not surprised that they didn’t understand being told something totally new only once.

But.... they were ALREADY told to "go to all nations". So going to Cornelius should NOT have been something new. There must be something else going on here and there is.

 

[Nick M]

Funny how turbosixx starts a thread claiming faith alone is false and it is faith plus works is the way, now argues against himself.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

But.... they were ALREADY told to "go to all nations". So going to Cornelius should NOT have been something new. There must be something else going on here and there is.

Indeed, RD.

I suspect Peter remembered this. Matthew 10:23 (KJV)

 

[Nick M]

Let's not forget Paul was the first in the Body of Christ, an enemy reconciled, and dead to sin. God's Spirit would not depart and a trouble spirit come like Saul in Israel.

 

[patrick jane]

:jawdrop:

That is Dr. Harrison Everett Breen of New York City whilst he gave his sermon to the good people of Mayberry in the mid 1960s.

I was kiddin' about Nixon.

 

[Cross Reference]

Let's not forget Paul was the first in the Body of Christ, an enemy reconciled, and dead to sin. God's Spirit would not depart and a trouble spirit come like Saul in Israel.

First, you say?? How 'bout this, long before Paul: John 20:22 kjv

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I was kiddin' about Nixon.

I know, I just love every opportunity to talk about Dr. Breen since saint john w the great is no longer here to talk about him with me.

 

[Right Divider]

First, you say?? How 'bout this, long before Paul: John 20:22 kjv

John 20:22 KJV has nothing to do with the dispensation of the grace of God or the body of Christ.

 

[Nick M]

First, you say?? How 'bout this, long before Paul: John 20:22 kjv

What about it? King Saul had the Holy Spirit at one time also. What of it?

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Do you even know what a prototype is?

 

[Cross Reference]

What about it? King Saul had the Holy Spirit at one time also. What of it?

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Do you even know what a prototype is?

He had NOT the Holy Spirit. He had Samuel.

 

[Right Divider]

He had NOT the Holy Spirit. He had Samuel.

1Sa 11:6 KJV And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.

1Sa 16:13-14 KJV Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. (14) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
​

The Holy Spirit has "filled" people from time to time.

 

[turbosixx]

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Taken out of context. Paul is saying he is the number one sinner. The same greek word (Transliteration: prótos) used for first in verse 16 is used in verse 15. It is actually the superlative of the word (pró) that means "what comes first".

Strongs:
4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one").

The later versions so a better job.
15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Now let's suppose that we ignore the context and say Paul is the first "as a pattern" of how one is saved. Lets put it to the test.

Before Acts 9:
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him....38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

After Acts 9:
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Same pattern before and after Paul.

 

[patrick jane]

Taken out of context. Paul is saying he is the number one sinner. The same greek word (Transliteration: prótos) used for first in verse 16 is used in verse 15. It is actually the superlative of the word (pró) that means "what comes first".

Strongs:
4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one").

The later versions so a better job.
15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Now let's suppose that we ignore the context and say Paul is the first "as a pattern" of how one is saved. Lets put it to the test.

Before Acts 9:
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him....38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

After Acts 9:
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Same pattern before and after Paul.

It's OK if you don't get it. Not everyone has the ability to read and comprehend. I see that you know just enough to be saved, so feel good about that. You're doing fine

 

[turbosixx]

It's OK if you don't get it. Not everyone has the ability to read and comprehend. I see that you know just enough to be saved, so feel good about that. You're doing fine

Thanks for the comments but I was wondering what you thought about this. How is this not the same?

Before Acts 9:
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him....38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

After Acts 9:
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

 

[DAN P]

Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.[/I]

Same pattern before and after Paul.

Hi and they are not the same as you think!!

Acts 16:33 reads , " And having taken them them in that hour of the night , he WASHED ( them ) from the STRIPES and was BAPTIZO he and all his INSTANTLY !!

In verse 24 , they were in PRISON , don't you see ?

They were INSTANTLY baptized , so where is the Greek word for water in this verse !!

Explain what is this BAPTISM , please ??

Paul was not sent to BAPTIZE as recorded in 1 Cor 1:17 !!


dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and they are not the same as you think!!

Acts 16:33 reads , " And having taken them them in that hour of the night , he WASHED ( them ) from the STRIPES and was BAPTIZO he and all his INSTANTLY !!

In verse 24 , they were in PRISON , don't you see ?

They were INSTANTLY baptized , so where is the Greek word for water in this verse !!

Explain what is this BAPTISM , please ??

Paul was not sent to BAPTIZE as recorded in 1 Cor 1:17 !!


dan p

Is there no water in this verse two chapters later?

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

 

[DAN P]

Thanks for the comments but I was wondering what you thought about this. How is this not the same?

Before Acts 9:
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him....38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

After Acts 9:
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Hi and another reason that they are not the same is because Paul was the PROTO / FIRST on saved by Grace from his mother's WOMB in Gal 1:15 and First in the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:13 and was picked by Christ Himself to be the APOSTLE of Grace !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Paul was not sent to BAPTIZE as recorded in 1 Cor 1:17 !!
dan p

Your taking this out of context so it fits your thinking.

Baptism is in response to the gospel and anyone can do it. Paul is saying his priority is to preach the gospel.

Rom. 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent?

You see the progression. You can't baptize people who haven't believed. They can't believe if they haven't heard. They can't here if no one preaches. How would Paul preach if he wasn't sent?

Let's say it is as you say and Christ didn't send Paul to baptize. Then he disobeyed Jesus and did it anyway. The argument that he became a Jew to win the Jew doesn't fly. Baptism is after one believes and if they believe they will want to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and another reason that they are not the same is because Paul was the PROTO / FIRST on saved by Grace from his mother's WOMB in Gal 1:15 and First in the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:13 and was picked by Christ Himself to be the APOSTLE of Grace !!

dan p

Wrong again.

Paul is saying he is the first sinner and that if the biggest sinner can be saved then anyone can. Same Greek word both verse. CONTEXT!

15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

 

[Nick M]

He had NOT the Holy Spirit. He had Samuel.

You vile perverter of truth. How long will you continue to pervert the straight ways of the Lord?

1 Samuel 11

6 Then the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard this news, and his anger was greatly aroused.

And then the Spirit left him.

1 Samuel 16

14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him.

Back to the subject after I burned your strawman to the ground.....

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.