Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[God's Truth]

I answered this in detail more than once for you. You dismiss it and then act like nobody has tried to show you your lack of insight. It is hard to take you seriously.

Why didn't you answer the question again then?
I explain my beliefs repeatedly. Why wouldn’t you explain your beliefs again?

You have never answered it, nor can you answer it.

 

[God's Truth]

Again, you are talking Mormon tritheism, not Christian triunity.

We both say the 3 are 1 and 1 are 3, but you reduce the 3 to the same thing (so, actually you are saying 1 is 1 and 1 is 1).

We are saying the 3 are personally distinct, but one in another sense (nature). We are not saying they are 3, but not also 1. 3 and 1 in the same sense is a contradiction, not 3 and 1 in a different sense.

If they were 3 beings, they would be 3 gods (Mormon). If they are one being, but 3 conscious centers, then they are one God, not 3 gods.

Your continued straw man misrepresentations and misunderstanding disqualify you from debating on this topic (you should be able to explain and understand the enemy view before you attack it. AMR understands your view and can speak against it with credibility).

You make no sense.

 

[Nang]

God came in the flesh.

Here is a prime example of why your beliefs do not stand scrutiny:

You do not bother to explain or offer any explanation of how or why Infinite Creator could, would, or should become finite.

How many times do you have to be told that I believe that there are three?

Three what?

Go ahead and explain how they are not the same person but they are the same being. EXPLAIN IT.

Perechoresis.

If you do not know what that word means, you have no legitimate reason to formally enter into a Trinitarian debate, let alone demand theological explanations from others.

Nang

 

[God's Truth]

In a nutshell, the debate starts with AMR stating that Jesus is fully God and man. He further stated that if we eliminate what 'not to believe' then we can rightly look after what to believe. This is a good starting place because it then allows AMR and GT to examine what tramples upon scriptural truths and allows the two of them to discuss any particular heresy.

I've looked forward to such a thread because we can use it to point others to when debating. Such means we don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over again. I can just say: Go look here at this debate.

It is unfortunate that GT doesn't understand biblical exegesis. It is important not just to 'post' verses, but to show that one rightly understands them. Exegesis is a 'show your work' demand. It is like turning in all your scratch paper in the higher math classes and turning in your rough drafts with your final draft. Exegesis means to explain why you believe verses, especially if you list many, work they way they do to 'prove' your point. As such, you need to be able to take word-for-word ideas and express why the truth you are purporting is supported from scripture.

When entering a debate, just listing scripture isn't enough, you must explain them and why you think, they support your position, and for a debate like this, usually verse for verse, at least to some degree.

Simply listing scriptures is not debate.

I explain my beliefs and I give scripture to prove them.

 

[God's Truth]

This makes 100s of verses, including triadic formula ones, redundant and nonsensical. You must ignore inspired grammar to even begin to hold to your view.

What you are saying is that you do not have the scriptures revealed to you.

 

[God's Truth]

I am going to haunt you.

The trinity doctrine DOES NOT say there are 3 separate and distinct gods (that is MORMONISM cult!). It says there is ONE GOD (spirit nature) and 3 personal DISTINCTIONS in the one spirit nature, not 3 natures, not 3 gods, not 4 gods, not 4 headed god.

You are misrepresenting trinitarians, creeds, theology books, centuries of church history.

It is called a straw man fallacy (you are attacking something we do not believe either).

I tell Mormons that they are not 3 separate and distinct gods (this is polytheism, not monotheism). I cannot tell trinitarians this about the trinity view because that is NOT what the trinity believes.

You wrongly think triune is tritheism. The former is monotheistic, but the latter is polytheistic. This is the issue between trinitarians/Oneness vs Mormons.

With JWs (who affirm monotheism), the issue is the Deity of Christ (which Oneness and trinity both affirm in addition to monotheism).

I see you have no formal education.

What group do you identify with? What are you hiding. If you are not UPCI, what are you? Surely others on the planet must hold your unique views, guru.

The trinitarian doctrine does say that there are three distinct and separate Gods. They say the Father is God, they say Jesus is God; they say the Holy Spirit is God, and that they are DIFFERENT AND SEPARATE. That makes three different and separate Gods.

 

[God's Truth]

Father AND Son. Father WITH Son....NOT Father IS Son (your assumption, not the text).

When you see the Son, you see the Father.

They are absolutely one, so what applies to the Father applies to the Son in most cases. This does not mean they are the same person in the one God.

My twin sons have much in common. X and Y. X is with Y. X and Y have the same genetics, general appearance, interests, etc. The unity of F, S, HS reflects their mutual love and relationship and common nature, character, attributes. It still does not mean they are the same person (making all the verses that show them distinct in some way redundant and nonsensical to everyone except you with an agenda to retain a false view at all costs).

They are two separate sons. Just like your doctrine makes two separate Gods.

 

[God's Truth]

AMR is calling GT and she and a he. Which is it? Perhaps transgender?

AMR has given substance to refute GT error and confusion on the topic. I am not holding my breath for a blue moon for GT to respond in kind.:jazz:

In Christ Jesus, it does not matter if I am a man or a woman. When many here started condemning me, I would think how mighty of you all, to claim Jesus has not saved me, yet no one here even knows for sure if I am a man or a woman.

 

[godrulz]

Listen carefully. The trinity doctrine SAYS it is UNEXPLAINABLE.

We are explaining much about it. I cannot explain everything about theoretical physics or calculus, but I can explain some truths about it.

Unexplainable means we do not have a clue. To say that the biblical evidence is that there is one God by nature with 3 personal distinctions who are co-equal, co-eternal, co-essential is an explanation that can be backed up with many verses.

 

[godrulz]

In Christ Jesus, it does not matter if I am a man or a woman. When many here started condemning me, I would think how mighty of you all, to claim Jesus has not saved me, yet no one here even knows for sure if I am a man or a woman.

I think you are likely saved, but I was curious because AMR said he would not debate a woman (meshak). AMR does not think you are saved.

If I am talking to a Muslim online, I can say they are not saved without knowing their gender.

 

[God's Truth]

IMO, this One on One might be the most important debate ever conducted on TOL, due to the recent invasion of anti-Trinitarianism on the ECT.

AMR is the best qualified to put a stop to the unbelieving nonsense of ALL of the heresies of those who would deny God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

All faithful Christians should read closely, and pray that readers will be blessed by all that AMR will bring to bear, according to the Word of God, upon this crucial debate.

Nang

God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Since God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that means the Son is God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[godrulz]

The trinitarian doctrine does say that there are three distinct and separate Gods. They say the Father is God, they say Jesus is God; they say the Holy Spirit is God, and that they are DIFFERENT AND SEPARATE. That makes three different and separate Gods.

NO it does not. We say 2+2=4 and are correct. You keep saying we believe 2+2=5 despite our protestations. You are the problem, not us, in your ignorant arrogance.

At some point you will become a waste of our time.

 

[godrulz]

What you are saying is that you do not have the scriptures revealed to you.

No, I am saying your interpretations are wrong and that I have the illumination of the Spirit through His Word.

AMR is exegeting like a scholar. You are quoting like a cultist.

Go take care of your one on one instead of whining about everything over here. You demanded something and made a commitment, but are not following through. Do you want to add lack of integrity to your lack of credibility?

 

[God's Truth]

AMR is exegeting like a scholar. You are quoting like a cultist.

Here is a prime example of why your beliefs do not stand scrutiny:

You do not bother to explain or offer any explanation of how or why Infinite Creator could, would, or should become finite.



Three what?



Perechoresis.

If you do not know what that word means, you have no legitimate reason to formally enter into a Trinitarian debate, let alone demand theological explanations from others.

Nang

You do not say what the Word of God says. You go against what God says.

Where does God say that we have to know what perechoresis is before we know God's Truth?

God’s word is understandable even to a young child.

How from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, see 2 Timothy 3:15.

We do not need elected men to interpret God’s word for us, but we are to check the scriptures to check out those claiming to be teachers, see Mark 7:14; 2 Timothy 3:15, 16, 17; John 20:30, 31; Acts 17:11; and, Psalm 119:105.

For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.

God revealed the truth to little children, and God hid the truth from the wise and learned.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

We are not to follow tradition or church laws or any human rules as authority for the church (Matthew 15:1-14; Colossians 2:8; Galatians 1:6-9; Proverbs 14:12; 2 John 9-11; Jeremiah 10:23).

The world’s wisdom is foolishness to God (Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21; 1 Corinthians 1:7, 19-21, 25-27; 2:1, 4-7, 13; 3:18,19; 2 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:8, 17; Colossians 1:9; 2:3; James 1:5; 2 Peter 3:15). We do not have to read books upon books to understand and explain our beliefs, as do those with false beliefs.

 

[God's Truth]

I think you are likely saved, but I was curious because AMR said he would not debate a woman (meshak). AMR does not think you are saved.

If I am talking to a Muslim online, I can say they are not saved without knowing their gender.

A Muslim does not say Jesus Christ saved him.

 

[godrulz]

A Muslim does not say Jesus Christ saved him.

You miss the point of the point:nono:

Your anti-intellectual attitude and proof texting out of context to justify it leaves you open to deception. Cults also are told to not think beyond the basics or to let others think for them.

I am less impressed by the day with your antics.

 

[God's Truth]

You miss the point of the point:nono:

Your anti-intellectual attitude and proof texting out of context to justify it leaves you open to deception. Cults also are told to not think beyond the basics or to let others think for them.

I am less impressed by the day with your antics.

You wanted to impress me that you knew Jesus did not save Muslims who reject him. That does not impress me.

 

[godrulz]

You wanted to impress me that you knew Jesus did not save Muslims who reject him. That does not impress me.

The point is that you said we cannot tell if someone is saved or not if we do not know their gender. I refuted your vapid argument.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You mean you all can post here so AMR could get some help, or like more nonsense.

I assure you, he doesn't need any help presenting the trinity doctrine.

Thats a false statement and a total cop out.

 

[Nang]

You do not say what the Word of God says. You go against what God says.

Where does God say that we have to know what perechoresis is before we know God's Truth?

To deny or debate against Christian theologians; especially on the subject of the Divine Trinity, one should know the language that has been used by Orthodox Church fathers who have already debated and settled these doctrinal truths.

IOW's it appears you do not know what you are talking about, and are arguing against truths you have never studied.

That is quite pathetic and you should be a bit embarrassed to admit such theological ignorance.

You are not standing before a Sunday School class. You have opened yourself up to the scrutiny of many learned and mature Christians and serious biblical students . . . If you are unable to speak to all of us on a higher level, give it up . . . for so far, you have not impressed us.

Nang