Did God become flesh?

[meshak]

LA, you seem to be misreading that passage.

The title of the book in that verse is:

"The Book of Life"

It's subtitle is:

"of the Lamb slain"

The phrase, "from the foundation of the world" is not part of the book's title, but is referring to "whose names have not been written in (the book)."

In other words, it could be read in this way:

All who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the Lamb Slain's "Book of Life" from the foundation of the world, will worship Him.



:blabla:

:blabla: yourself.

 

[john w]

I bet you sincerely believe that you understand Isaiah.

You don't.

Jesus is my Lord, not my God.



Peace

Translation: Sound byte, crafty dismissal, more spam assertions, declaring "victory," returning to your "copy'npaste echo chamber," avoiding challenges to your satanic assertions, and condescendingly stumping your challengers, with, "You don't understand (fill in the blank)," then crawling back into your Christ rejecting ditch.

You are not in my league, biblically, enemy, as I/others have given you chapter, and verse, in which to soak your antichrist brain, and all we get from you is sophistry, evasion, side stepping, punting.

 

[john w]

Plenty of books at Amazon to enlighten you Johnboy.


Peace

"boy," you quip, you Christ rejecting wimp? Real tough punk, are you, child of the devil?


And the punk admits that his authority is anything but the bible, since it is full of errors.


Keywimp: Here is the scriptures, that say, we no longer have the scriptures.


Answer, frail one:
Care to tell us just how anyone can distort the scriptures, that, according to you, are full of errors?


I thought so, loser, clown.

 

[john w]

What I asked is not "Jesus is God" doctrine.

I don't discuss any theological matters with anyone whose mind is all set.


I am not interested in entertaining you guys to bicker.

I state my convictions. I am not here to persuade my opposed.

that is not troll.

You have been calling me a troll. That is out right lie.

It is not saved Christian thing to do, dear.

Non responsive.Why do you ask, since you assert that you do not reason with those that give you chapter, verse, expounding as to why the Lord Jesus Christ is God, and why do you assert that we are not to be angry, with wolves, such as yourself,those who attempt to "spiritually" rape, molest the babes/sheep, as you attempt to do?

Chapter, verse, that says we are to be "not angry" with wolves, children of the devil, such as yourself.

 

[JudgeRightly]

:blabla: yourself.

:troll:

 

[keypurr]

"boy," you quip, you Christ rejecting wimp? Real tough punk, are you, child of the devil?


And the punk admits that his authority is anything but the bible, since it is full of errors.


Keywimp: Here is the scriptures, that say, we no longer have the scriptures.


Answer, frail one:
Care to tell us just how anyone can distort the scriptures, that, according to you, are full of errors?


I thought so, loser, clown.

I could, but it would take a lifetime. Your acting just like the child that is in the White House.

 

[keypurr]

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Who do you trust?

 

[Rosenritter]

The Father created everything with Jesus and us in mind (and heart), not that Jesus was a living son before He was born, which defies all logic.

Your answer creates more problems than it purports to solve (and it also WARPED the question to something different)...

First, if "the Father created everything with Jesus and us in mind" then we would see the same types of statements about every human that has ever lived, not unique statements related to Jesus, and

Second, and according to you, every poster here defies all logic, including those that acknowledge Jesus as God (like myself) and those that deny Jesus as God (like Meshak and the Jehovah's Witnesses).

I'll remind you that the question was not supposing "a living son before he was born" but rather "Then can you tell me why even groups like Jehovah's Witnesses or individuals like Meshak acknowledge that Jesus existed far before the virgin birth?" You didn't answer that question at all.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.' "
Joh 1:16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

You haven't pretended to answer the second question, of how John could say Jesus was before him.

God has shown Abraham the coming day of Jesus and was glad. Jesus claim was always that He was the son of God and the Messiah, as all the other writing attest to.

Your answer is wanting because the context of this statement was in specific answer and reference to his age measured in years.

It should be obvious from the text that jesus referred to satan having lost his authority and deception of the people when they repented and believed the witnesses sent to them by the Lord.

I don't think so. Had Jesus said, "Behold, Satan has fallen from heaven" then that could be fitting with a metaphorical statement that "See, the devils are cast out, Satan has fallen." But Jesus gave this statement in the past tense, as a reason why his name had that power.

Satan was nevrer in the highest Heaven at any time before or since. Satan is described as never being an angel but only disguises himself as such.--

ph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Maybe it would help if you referred to the other scriptures that tell us that Satan not only a literal angel, but also was literally cast down from heaven. Satan is cast down from heaven in Isaiah 14 and Revelation, Satan is identified as an angel, even a covering cherub, that sinned in Eden in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12-15 KJV
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
(14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
(15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Revelation 12:3-4 KJV
(3) And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
(4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:7-9 KJV
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.




Ezekiel 28:13-15 KJV
(13) Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
(14) Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(15) Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


If you're getting this wrong and saying the devil was not a created angel and was never cast down from heaven, what might this indicate about other things you might not have noticed?

Gods word became flesh in that God raised up Jesus in Gods own likeness as the man that Jesus became through the birth and upbringing by His Father who alone is God. Jesus is the image of God, therefore he is Not God.

Heb 2:16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

That doesn't satisfactorily answer the question. Why would the gospel of John literally state "The Word Was God" rather than saying "The Word was like God?" Besides, you answer doesn't make sense with the following verses that tell us clearly that the Word created all things. If Jesus was just "godlike" as in being "very much like God" then he didn't create all things. But it tells us he did, this clarifying its meaning as literal.

Jesus is Gods servant in whom the Father dwells.

How does that response address that Jesus identifies himself as "the first and the last" which is a specific title for identifying the LORD of Hosts in the Old Testament (three separate times in Isaiah?)

So you do not believe that by your saying that Jesus is God.

I don't even understand your English there.

Isa 49:5 "And now the LORD says, Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, So that Israel is gathered to Him (For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, And My God shall be My strength),
Isa 49:6 Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.' "

I guess you didn't realize that you just destroyed your own position here. If you acknowledge that the "me" is Jesus, then Jesus is issuing this prophecy, and to do so he would have to exist. This was written before the birth of Jesus. And move forward to 49:7 and you have the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One speaking together with the same voice.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

LA

None of that above answers why Jesus called himself the "first and the last" which is a title specifically reserved to identify the LORD by name.

 

[Rosenritter]

LA, you seem to be misreading that passage.

The title of the book in that verse is:

"The Book of Life"

It's subtitle is:

"of the Lamb slain"

The phrase, "from the foundation of the world" is not part of the book's title, but is referring to "whose names have not been written in (the book)."

In other words, it could be read in this way:

All who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the Lamb Slain's "Book of Life" from the foundation of the world, will worship Him.

:blabla:

To be fair, it does make sense that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. The foundation of the world is found in Genesis, and the "slain" is written into Genesis 3:15. That's not an unusual reading either: the Albert Barnes and Adam Clarke commentaries seem to interpret the phrasing that way.

John Gill reads it your way, and and being Calvinist, says it means that the literal names were written from the foundation of the world, rather than the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Rosenritter]

I don't answer to your question unless you tell me the point of your question.

they are relevant that Jesus is not God. God is not a servant. God gives commandments.

The point of my question was clear. The standard you were using to judge Jesus and God as being two different people also judges YOU as being two different people.

And as for "God is not a servant?" God certainly does serve man. Who created the world and the Garden for man? Who gave him the animals?

Matthew 23:10-11 KJV
(10) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
(11) But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

 

[JudgeRightly]

To be fair, it does make sense that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. The foundation of the world is found in Genesis, and the "slain" is written into Genesis 3:15. That's not an unusual reading either: the Albert Barnes and Adam Clarke commentaries seem to interpret the phrasing that way.

John Gill reads it your way, and and being Calvinist, says it means that the literal names were written from the foundation of the world, rather than the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world.

I have no idea who those people are. Nor do I really care...

"From the foundation of the world" simply means "since creation."

And the passage says "NOT written", not "written," meaning that their names had never been written in the Book of Life.

The Lamb (Jesus) was slain at one point in history (around 29-30 AD), not "from the foundations of the world" (aka "since creation").

Therefore, "from the foundations of the world MUST be referring to something else in the passage.

"whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"

The only other possibility is that the phrase is referring to their name having not been written in the Book.

Also, I don't see the word "slain" in Genesis 3:15.

Perhaps you meant a different reference?

 

[meshak]

The point of my question was clear. The standard you were using to judge Jesus and God as being two different people also judges YOU as being two different people.

And as for "God is not a servant?" God certainly does serve man. Who created the world and the Garden for man? Who gave him the animals?

Matthew 23:10-11 KJV
(10) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
(11) But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

Those verses does not prove anything that Jesus is God.

God does not change, period.

 

[Rosenritter]

God is a Spirit. Jesus was a flesh. God will not change, Jesus was sent by His Father to accomplish the mission He was given. God is the giver, not receiver. Jesus was given the mission by His Father.

So your "Jesus is God" doctrine is completely flaw, friend.

God never become flesh, period.

How do you figure that God cannot manifest in the flesh? Are you able to support that in any way?

 

[meshak]

How do you figure that God cannot manifest in the flesh? Are you able to support that in any way?

Manifest and become flesh is completely different.

God can manifest in us too. So are we God too?

 

[meshak]

Rosen,

You guys cannot even reconcile with one verse where Jesus says His Father is the only true God.


No matter how many verses you bring up, you cannot defend your doctrine of "Jesus is God".

 

[john w]

I could, but it would take a lifetime. Your acting just like the child that is in the White House.

That's your best volley, Christ rejecting, Mr.(loosely employed here) TOL irrelevant, who, in insincere condescension, refers to everyone as "friends?" How long did it take you to GOOG/Bing, that "acting liked a child" original stumper?And why do you lie, as members of the boc, are not your friends-you are our enemy.

 

[john w]

I could, but it would take a lifetime. Your acting just like the child that is in the White House.

Care to tell us just how anyone can distort the scriptures, that, according to you, are full of errors?


I thought so, loser, clown.

 

[john w]

Your church holds onto doctrins of men, not God.

Clown-almost everyone can spam that-you've said NADA, as usual.

 

[john w]

God does not change, period.

Another exhilarating debate ender, that has all of us stymied.

 

[drbrumley]

There was a Church of Christ before man corrupted it.

So Jesus is a liar then to you?