Jesus never intended to save every sinner for whom He died. He took care of God's judgment against sin for all the sinners of the world so that whoever was willing to come to Him in repentance could be forgiven of his sins.
Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
- Status
Right Divider
Body part
Nonsense... you have a ton of it.
No, it doesn't equate to that. The devil isn't omnipresent, he cannot be everywhere at once, leading people astray. People go to hell on their own decisions.
And even if it did mean what you accuse me of saying, according to your views, such would be by God's design anyways, so it's not really a defeat, is it? Rather a fulfillment of God's plans!
Why are you judging God? You should repent.
Reality is that Christ died and rose for all, His death and resurrection is sufficient to save even the worst sinners. But that's no guarantee that all will repent towards God.
Supra.
Chapter, verse.
Again, as I said above, Satan is not omnipresent. He literally cannot lead all those who die in unbelief astray. It's not possible for him.
Why are you giving more credit to Satan than you are to God though?
By your views, God is the one who predestined all of that anyways!
Which is just another way of saying that it's the work of God, according to your views, as the devil can only do that which God predestined him to do, right?
What does verse 25 say, can someone acknowledge that they are in need of a Savior?
What does "God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" imply? Perhaps Romans 10:17, no?
You would have God be the one who is responsible for people going to hell.
The Bible clearly states that God is not willing that people go to hell. You make God contradict Himself.
Shame on you.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats false !
Christ's goal was to provide a means of reconciliation for literally everyone.
It wasn't to save literally every person, because He knew that not every person would repent towards God.
Christ died for the ungodly. No qualifiers.
The only sin that will never be forgiven is the willful rejection of the Gospel truth of God clearly revealed to the sinner's heart by the Holy Ghost.
Mark 3
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
beloved57
Well-known member
If a person dies in their sins its simply because Christ didnt die for them !
beloved57
Well-known member
When Christ died for the sins of the elect, He died for their sin of unbelief, so He must show mercy to the elect for their unbelief Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
So now the elect for their unbelief, obtain mercy Rom 11:30-31
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
So now the elect for their unbelief, obtain mercy Rom 11:30-31
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Nanja
Well-known member
None can !
Ignorant students of the Bible may end up erroneously thinking God wanted billions of sinners to be banned from seeking to be saved so He could have great pleasure in burning them in hell forever. But that requires a gross misunderstanding of the nature of God and a very bad misunderstanding of the Bible.
So it's Christ's fault that they died in their sins?
Your premise is false, therefore your argument is wrong.
Christ died for all, to provide a way for all to come for Him.
He completely succeeded in that action.
Christ predetermined, willed, before the foundation of the world that anyone who would come to Him, after He made a way available, would be saved.
Therefore, ANYONE who accepts Him, and comes to Him, on their own will, is following His will.
AND
Therefore, ANYONE who rejects Him, and DOES NOT come to Him, on their own will, is not doing so because their "unbelief reigned superiorly over the Blood of Christ," it's because God gave them the ability to choose to accept or reject Him, and they chose to use that ability to reject Him, which is what it was for.
beloved57
Well-known member
Huh ? Where that come from ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Christs death blotted out all of the sins of those He died for, so their unbelief has been blotted out ! God cant do anything but have mercy on all their unrighteousness for Christs sake. Heb 8:12
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Thats forgiveness of sins !
The fact that that seems like it came at you out of left field is because you're so blinded by Calvinism that you can't even follow your own arguments to their full conclusions.
YOU, b57, said:
So I asked:
. . . because YOU say "Christ didn't die for the people who die in their sins."
So again, I ask you:
It's Christ's fault that they are dying in their sins?
Book, chapter, verse that says EXACTLY that.
Because according to SCRIPTURE, Christ died for the ungodly.
Because according to SCRIPTURE, Christ's death was payment for those who are "in Him."
How does one get "in Him?"
By believing. How can one believe?
By hearing. How can one hear?
By someone preaching. How does preaching occur?
By God sending a preacher.
What does the preacher preach? The GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST!
Book, chapter, verse.
He can't? Who are you to say that He can't?
For SCRIPTURE says:
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” - Romans 9:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:15&version=NKJV
Who are you to say He can't have mercy upon all?
Shame on you!
Don't know if you noticed (in fact, I'm completely certain you did not), but this is directed at unbelieving Israel...
It's not directed at "the Elect" OR the Body of Christ.
It's the forgiveness OF the sin of unbelief BY unbelieving Israel. It has nothing to do with the salvation of those in the Body of Christ.
Logic.
beloved57
Well-known member
You lost me, you all over the place !
beloved57
Well-known member
Figures !
That's because you aren't capable of thinking outside your theological box.
I'm right on point, and you know it. Answer the question, b57, though I know you cannot, because answering one way puts the blame on God for man's sin, and the other is my position, and there's no other way to answer it but those two ways:
Is it Christ's fault that man dies in his sins?
- Status