No, James says if that faith does not produce good works, it is dead. Not the same thing. We are saved, a one time event, by faith, NOT by works.
James 2:17 (NIV) Eph 2:8 (NIV)
ECT Definition of "Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
No, James says if that faith does not produce good works, it is dead. Not the same thing. We are saved, a one time event, by faith, NOT by works.
James 2:17 (NIV) Eph 2:8 (NIV)
Cross Reference
New member
And then you gave your reasoning which is what my reply addressed.
What do you think I am going to let you do, mis-represent what I asked with an answer from you that didn't address what asked?? But then, that is your way, isn't it?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
How did I misrepresent what you asked?
Were you not asking if I thought I possess eternal life?:
I answered your question and I did not misrepresent anything you said.
Cross Reference
New member
Forget it! Mis-rep and play stupid with someone else. I want nothing to do with you.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are not playing stupid you are just plain stupid! Get a brain before you return and then perhaps you will finally make some sense.
God's Truth
New member
You are badly mistaken. James says that faith without works is dead and cannot save anyone.
Faith alone is dead it is not the most important faith known. It is dead and cannot save anyone. Just believe what is written.
God's Truth
New member
Are you kidding? If you do not obey Jesus, you say we still have salvation, but you cannot tell me what kind of salvation you would have. If a person believes and does not obey, they would have the SAME LIFE as an unbeliever.
God's Truth
New member
Exactly.
If a person does not OBEY JESUS---THEN THAT PERSON DOES NOT KNOW GOD. If that person does NOT know God, then that person does not have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God.
To love God IS TO OBEY GOD.
1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands;
God's Truth
New member
Who do you think Jesus gives understanding to?
You are the one speaking against obeying.
You are the one who says faith alone.
Jesus says he gives understanding TO THOSE WHO OBEY.
John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
Jesus REVEALING himself to someone is Jesus giving understanding to someone. Jesus gives understanding to those who OBEY his teachings.
Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.
Cross Reference
New member
And if you are not seeking God to Love Him you are not obeying Him, isn't that correct?
God's Truth
New member
If you are saved, then you have already sought Him and have found Him.
Jesus saves those who believe and obey him.
Cross Reference
New member
If you have "found Him" to "obey Him", your life should speak of it.
Sorry GT, you conversation in Him is wanting.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You will never be saved until you start believing what is so plain in the Scriptures:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).
Cross Reference
New member
And you will never know God for His everlasting/eternal life, per John 17:3, until you understand and accept the full ramifications of the word "believe".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What are the full ramifications of the word believe?
And please quote a Greek expert with his view on the Greek word translated believe.
Cross Reference
New member
You tell me. You spam up enough broad based scripture that one would think you know what you are talking about. So, go ahead, expound on John 3:16 in the sense it was intended to be understood. A Strongs' concordance as a tool should suffice anyone without an agenda ridden opinion. Anyone with one will demand further 'evidence'.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
All you will do is to run from these words of the Lord Jesus Christ:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24; NIV).
In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.
In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:
"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."
Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."
By the time one believed he had already passed from death to life and that life is eternal life. They are also given the Lord Jesus' promise that they will not be judged.
Despite these facts you will reject His words because you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. And it is also a fact that the Lord Jesus says that His words are Spirit and they are life:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Of course you will not believe what He says there because it contradicts your mistaken ideas.
Still waiting for your ideas concerning the full ramifications of the word "believe."
Cross Reference
New member
When you give something worthwhile replying to I MIGHT accommodate you. While noting all that above is a bs reply, I don't expect anything better than that of you. You "know" nothing.
What? How can we be rewarded according to our works if we are never judged?
God's Truth
New member
I have a powerful testimony. If you only knew how ignorant you are when you say I am not saved.
All the scriptures that say we have to 'believe', they do not nullify the scriptures that say we have to obey.
Why don't you study those scriptures for awhile?
Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.
God saves those with honest and good hearts.
Jesus tells us how to have an honest and good heart.