Cyrus Christ

Goose

Goose

New member
Cyrus King of Persia is referred to in Isaiah 45:1 as a Christ: "Thus sayeth the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus". The Hebrew word for Christ, "anointed", is meshiakh(Messiah). The verse is better translated as "Thus sayeth the LORD to his Messiah, to Cyrus"

I'd like to hear what people think about that part of the verse. What does an "anointed" one(Meshiakh) do? What is their job? Why/how was Cyrus a Meshiakh? How many types of Meshakhim(Messiahs) do you think there are/can be? etc.

I'd particularly like to hear from Christians, but everyone feel free to reply. A short reply is preferred.
 
E

erethnereh

New member
Because Cyrus freed the Jews to worship in His temple, Cyrus forshadows of Jesus. Cyrus also supposedly received a dream, from the God of the hebrews, to set the Jews free. This dream is recorded outside of the Bible.
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Goose-
For Cyrus to be referred to as a messiah means that he is a type, or shadow of The Messiah.
 
Goose

Goose

New member
Maybe the Christ of the Christian Bible is a type, or shadow? Things obviously have yet to be fully filled, reigning physical King, etc.
 
SOTK

SOTK

New member
Originally posted by Goose

Maybe the Christ of the Christian Bible is a type, or shadow? Things obviously have yet to be fully filled, reigning physical King, etc.
Click to expand...

"Maybe Christ is a type or shadow"? Goose, I know that you aren't necessarily a traditional Christian, but I always thought you believed Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God and our Savior. Do you not believe this?
 
firechyld

firechyld

New member
Bear in mind that the word "Messiah" has been given much greater emphasis in Christianity than in Judaism. In Judaism, the term can refer to anyone with a sacred duty or mission from God, as well as the prophecied individual who will usher in the "Messianic Age".
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Seriously, what OT prophecies state that The Messiah is going to reign in a physical kingdom?
 
firechyld

firechyld

New member
Seriously, what OT prophecies state that The Messiah is going to reign in a physical kingdom?
Click to expand...

The Babylonian Talmud has rather specific mentions, as do the works of Maimonides. Stop attempting to base your "knowledge" of Judaism on the texts accepted by Christianity alone.
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
That is the only knowledge I have. And, as you pointed out, there are no OT prophecies. So what? That doesn't mean He isn't going to reign in a physical kingdom.
 
Goose

Goose

New member
Firechyld is exactly right. Being a Meshiakh means to be anointed for a specific office/task etc. There are many Meshiakhim(Messiahs). The King Meshiakh (the Messiah) is anointed to rule on the throne of Israel, physically. If everything is fully filled like Lighthouse said, then why the need to come back. Cyrus, fulfilled some prophecy too, and didn't complete the job. Maybe he came back in the 1st Century, etc.

As for me, I'm a Geir Toshav in Judaism(a non-Jew who deligently studies Torah).
 
Granite

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Goose

Firechyld is exactly right. Being a Meshiakh means to be anointed for a specific office/task etc. There are many Meshiakhim(Messiahs). The King Meshiakh (the Messiah) is anointed to rule on the throne of Israel, physically. If everything is fully filled like Lighthouse said, then why the need to come back. Cyrus, fulfilled some prophecy too, and didn't complete the job. Maybe he came back in the 1st Century, etc.

As for me, I'm a Geir Toshav in Judaism(a non-Jew who deligently studies Torah).
Click to expand...

That have a word for a half-Jew who doesn't diligently study the Torah?:D

As an aside the Christian Jesus fulfilled next to none of the so-called "messianic" prophecies in the OT.
 
Chileice

Chileice

New member
"messiah" and "christos" are hebrew and greek words used to mean someone annointed. However, the Jewish people were looking for a specific kind of messiah... one who would liberate them and restore the kingdom to Israel. Jesus did come to liberate them but in a spiritual, rather than political sense. And instead of restoring the kingdom to the Jews he opened it up to everyone, which is what got him in trouble.

The use of the word "messiah" with Cyrus is of no bother. Joshua the high priest and Zerrubbabel were also "messiahs". They annointed by God to carry out specific purposes.
 
Granite

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by On Fire

You may be mistaken.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
Click to expand...

Cherrypicking verses, ripping them out of context, and creating a hodgepodge of "prophecies" relating to Jesus might comfort the flock, but that's about it.

Interestingly, Jews yesterday and today do not see messianic overtones in many of these passages. The only people who make the connection are Christians.

Not like we'd expect the actual people who wrote the books to know a thing or two...
 
Chileice

Chileice

New member
Originally posted by granite1010

Cherrypicking verses, ripping them out of context, and creating a hodgepodge of "prophecies" relating to Jesus might comfort the flock, but that's about it.

Interestingly, Jews yesterday and today do not see messianic overtones in many of these passages. The only people who make the connection are Christians.

Not like we'd expect the actual people who wrote the books to know a thing or two...
Click to expand...

You also need to be careful. Jews DID see messianic overtones in many verses at the time. You have to remember their are Jewish revisionists just as there are Christian ones. And while they may not have seen messianic overtones in all of the verses thay may have seen some in other verses as well. And they were able to change their views so that they did NOT fit with Jesus.

You are right in some ways. He was not the messiah in the form they expected. They certainly had a much more ethno-centric view of waht messiah should be. Jesus came breaking down barriers rather than constructing them... a point many modern Christians ought to remember as well.

But you have to be careful in trying to break away from Christianity, that you do not do the same thing you accuse your accusers of doing, 1010. Jesus did fulfill many messianic prophesies, but not many related to an earthly kingdom. That is why Christians look forward to a second coming and why some Jews reject Jesus thinking he didn't fulfill all they expected. But he followed pretty carefully the suffering servant motif of Isaiah and of the wisdom literature. The apocalyptic stuff was not what Jesus was about. Maybe those passages really weren't messianic and were misinterpretted for years ( a thing Jesus certainly accused the religious leaders of his day of doing) or maybe they were for a different time... a second coming, or a millenial kingdom or even to be fulfilled by someone else or Jesus wasn't the awaited messiah. I guess you have to make your own choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top