ECT Crucifix, what says you?
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Passion of the Cross
Passion of the Cross
You will need to unpack this "passion of the cross" statement before anyone can give you a reasoned answer. What exactly do you mean by the phrase? The so-called theopaschite expressions of Our Lord on the cross? The suffering, and particularly the sufferings of Christ between the night of the Last Supper and the Crucifixion?
:idunno:
AMR
Passion of the Cross
You will need to unpack this "passion of the cross" statement before anyone can give you a reasoned answer. What exactly do you mean by the phrase? The so-called theopaschite expressions of Our Lord on the cross? The suffering, and particularly the sufferings of Christ between the night of the Last Supper and the Crucifixion?
:idunno:
AMR
Yes...The suffering from sentencing to beating, to being crucified and died. Lets include ressurection since that needs to be with everything else and holds its own mark.
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Why Our Lord's Passion?
Why Our Lord's Passion?
Why does the Passion of Our Lord occur?
Follow the argument below:
1. God exists. (Gen. 1:1)
2. God is infinite. (Psalm 90:2, 147:5; Jer. 23:24)
3. God is holy. (Isaiah 6:3; Rev. 4:8)
4. God is righteous. (Neh. 9:32-33; 1 Thess. 1:6)
5. Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.
6. Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of who He is. (Matt. 12:34)
7. God spoke the Law. (Ex. 20:1-17)
8. Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and Good. (Rom. 7:12)
9. Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite and His wrath against sin is infinite, thus, the payment made by the reprobate must be unending.
10. Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored. (Amos 2:4; Rom. 4:15; Ex. 23:7; Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Rom. 2:5-6)
11. God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death. (Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23)
12. The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation. (Rom. 1:18; Matt. 25:46)
13. But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous character. (Gal. 2:16, 2:21)
14. But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh). (Rom. 8:3)
15. Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.
16. Jesus is God in flesh. (John 1:1, 1:14; Col. 2:9)
18. The substitute could not be an animal. (Heb. 10:4)
19. Neither could an angel be the substitute, for the substitute must take upon himself human nature. (Heb. 2:14)
20. No sinner could atone for his fellow sinners. (Psa. 49:7–8).
21. It was only God Himself who could be the exact, perfect and proper substitute to atone for the sins of His people, and completely satisfy the vindication of His justice and righteousness, and thus render man acceptable in His sight.
22. Jesus was also a man under the Law. (1 Tim. 2:5; Gal. 4:5-6)
23. Since then the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus, Himself, likewise partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.
24. Therefore, he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb. 2:14–17)
25. Jesus Christ alone could be the fitting or proper high priest. (Heb. 7:26)
26. The sinlessness of the substitute is necessary. (2 Cor. 5:21)
27. Therefore, Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins unto death in His body on the cross, which revealed the specific penalty required for sin, thus fulfilling the Law. (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Rom. 3:24–26; Rom. 8:3-4)
28. The gift is valued according to the altar on which it is presented. Christ offered Himself through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14), that is to say, He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature. His divine nature being eternal, His offering possesses an eternal quality. Hence, although Christ did not sacrifice Himself eternally, He nevertheless offered an eternal sacrifice to satisfy divine justice.
29. Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place. (Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:13; Eph. 5:2)
30. Finally, it follows from the above that a person’s duty is to believe, claiming Christ’s atoning sacrifice as their own in order to be declared righteous before God. Such a true believer will be known from their works.
AMR
Why Our Lord's Passion?
Why does the Passion of Our Lord occur?
Follow the argument below:
1. God exists. (Gen. 1:1)
2. God is infinite. (Psalm 90:2, 147:5; Jer. 23:24)
3. God is holy. (Isaiah 6:3; Rev. 4:8)
4. God is righteous. (Neh. 9:32-33; 1 Thess. 1:6)
5. Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.
6. Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of who He is. (Matt. 12:34)
7. God spoke the Law. (Ex. 20:1-17)
8. Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and Good. (Rom. 7:12)
9. Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite and His wrath against sin is infinite, thus, the payment made by the reprobate must be unending.
10. Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored. (Amos 2:4; Rom. 4:15; Ex. 23:7; Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Rom. 2:5-6)
11. God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death. (Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23)
12. The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation. (Rom. 1:18; Matt. 25:46)
13. But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous character. (Gal. 2:16, 2:21)
14. But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh). (Rom. 8:3)
15. Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.
16. Jesus is God in flesh. (John 1:1, 1:14; Col. 2:9)
18. The substitute could not be an animal. (Heb. 10:4)
19. Neither could an angel be the substitute, for the substitute must take upon himself human nature. (Heb. 2:14)
20. No sinner could atone for his fellow sinners. (Psa. 49:7–8).
21. It was only God Himself who could be the exact, perfect and proper substitute to atone for the sins of His people, and completely satisfy the vindication of His justice and righteousness, and thus render man acceptable in His sight.
22. Jesus was also a man under the Law. (1 Tim. 2:5; Gal. 4:5-6)
23. Since then the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus, Himself, likewise partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.
24. Therefore, he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb. 2:14–17)
25. Jesus Christ alone could be the fitting or proper high priest. (Heb. 7:26)
26. The sinlessness of the substitute is necessary. (2 Cor. 5:21)
27. Therefore, Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins unto death in His body on the cross, which revealed the specific penalty required for sin, thus fulfilling the Law. (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Rom. 3:24–26; Rom. 8:3-4)
28. The gift is valued according to the altar on which it is presented. Christ offered Himself through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14), that is to say, He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature. His divine nature being eternal, His offering possesses an eternal quality. Hence, although Christ did not sacrifice Himself eternally, He nevertheless offered an eternal sacrifice to satisfy divine justice.
29. Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place. (Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:13; Eph. 5:2)
30. Finally, it follows from the above that a person’s duty is to believe, claiming Christ’s atoning sacrifice as their own in order to be declared righteous before God. Such a true believer will be known from their works.
AMR
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Our High Priest Had To Be Like Us
Our High Priest Had To Be Like Us
AMR
Our High Priest Had To Be Like Us
As noted from the accompanying reference, Heb. 2:14-17,to be our High Priest in order to make propitiations for us Our Lord had to be like us. Hence, in the incarnation, He assumed a fully human nature in a mystical union with His fully divine nature, such that the two natures are not confused, divided, separated, or mixed.
AMR
Answers can be found in Luke 24:26, Acts 26:23, Hebrews 2:10, 1 Peter 1:11 and 1:21.
See 1 Corinthians 1:18, Galatians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:2.
See Hebrews 2:17-18, Philippians 2:8, Ephesians 2:16, Romans 8:3, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Hebrews 4:15, 7:26, and 9:28.
I think I understand what you refer to, but that doesn't respond to the question.
Perhaps that is correct path. Perhaps not. As I was once explained, God did not have to be crucified in order for His sacrifice and His actions to bring peace. BUT doing so expresses His love for us. I agree with this and amplify it. An act of will if far greater than being oblieged to do something.
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Point 1 below...
WITHOUT BLEMISH(Exodus 12:5 KJV)=WITHOUT SIN(Hebrews 4:15 KJV) -the whole point of "without blemish" is to convey that the redeemer must be God. Remember the The "kinsman redeemer" concept- this explains the why-the redeemer must be both God and man. In Genesis, "The Seed Plot of the Holy Bible", we have the "beginning" of 7(representing completion, perfection) promises/requirements of this redeemer. The redeemer would:
1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15 KJV=seed of a woman(and virgin birth-only a male has a seed)
2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26 KJV=Shem
3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3 KJV=Hebrew
4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10 KJV=Judah
5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16 KJV=David
6. be of a certain member of that family-Is.7:14 KJV=Mary
7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2 KJV-Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:
1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25 KJV-"...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,
"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5 KJV
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15 KJV
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9 KJV
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5-6 KJV
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15 KJV
This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=GOD and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 KJV
This is Paul's argument-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowledge Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang", and the unsaved), all will acknowledge that He is God(whether willingly, or by force, I am uncertain), as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28 KJV, 1 Peter 1:18-19 KJV, Romans 3:24-25 KJV..............).
3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. NO SLAVE, for example, COULD REDEEM ANOTHER SLAVE. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21KJV see also 1 John 3:5 KJV, 1 Peter 2:22 KJV, Hebrews 4:15 KJV, John 8:46 KJV, Exodus 12:5 KJV="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.
4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:
*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3 KJV
* Genesis 22:6 KJV "...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.
And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18 KJV
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14 KJV
Most compelling, but most I have read regards to either what will transpire or has transpired. Remember, that which has been written is written to tell us what has happened or is to happen. Where is the requirement?
To say someone has to be suggests a requirement but how might there be such a requirement if God Himself is completing His own task?
So while various points suggest Jesus is God, which I agree, the fair assesment to the question might be - "that is how God wills it."
would you disagree?
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