CRTL's Jason Troyer In Studio

[Granite]

Uhh…I wasn’t actually riled up, but ok. To what degree? Aethril in post #18 covers that aspect.


But slavery was legal here (it was the norm) and now it is not. Somehow that victory was one. The same can be done with abortion.




A miscarriage is not murder, no one deliberately tried to kill the baby. If the baby is deliberately killed, it is murder and the baby is the obvious victim.

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

 

[Jefferson]

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

The baby who dies in a miscarriage is a victim of the fall.

 

[Granite]

The baby who dies in a miscarriage is a victim of the fall.

So the 12-25% of all births that spontaneously abort are all victims of the fall?

The implications of this probably belong on a separate thread but that's a staggering assertion.

 

[Jefferson]

So the 12-25% of all births that spontaneously abort are all victims of the fall?

Yes. What do you think is the cause?

 

[Granite]

Yes. What do you think is the cause?

An imperfect evolutionary process coupled with a myriad of things that can and do go wrong.

 

[Aethril]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

Q What do you do when you cook vegetables on a low heat?
A You simmer them.
Q Opposite of up?
A Down.
Q Not later but…?
A Now.
Simmer Down Now!

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

I think this is getting into semantics. It can be said that a mother wishing to carry her child to term is a victim of a spontaneous abortion as well as the child in relation to "victim" being synonymous with "sufferer" or "fatality" even IF no crime has occured.

 

[Turbo]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

No one, including Jason Troyer, has suggested that the mothers are not victims at all. If you had listened to the show or read the article (which Knight posted here last week), you would have known that.

Maybe you should calm down.

 

[Granite]

No one, including Jason Troyer, has suggested that the mothers are not victims at all. If you had listened to the show or read the article (which Knight posted here last week), you would have known that.

Maybe you should calm down.

I didn't say anyone had. I made an offhand comment that got blown out of proportion and I think it's bloody ridiculous.

 

[On Fire]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

Did I miss where someone explained how a person who undergoes a voluntary procedure is a VICTIM?

 

[Granite]

You saying it's impossible for a woman to regret her decision and realize she's been had?

 

[On Fire]

You saying it's impossible for a woman to regret her decision and realize she's been had?

Regret? Sure. Big time.

Been had? Not so sure about that one.

It may be PC to call her a victim but it's a huge stretch.

 

[Granite]

I answered this via PM.

 

[wabbit]

It may be PC to call her a victim but it's a huge stretch.

She is as much a victim as are smokers that get lung cancer.

I don't think a woman (no matter how dense they may be) that walks into a clinic magically becomes a "victim". There are of course some cases that may be contrary to this (girls under 18ish that are 'forced' by parents/boyfriend, women in china, etc... ) but most should not be considered victims.

When did people start thinking that doing something "wrong" makes you a victim? Is the fact that they are lied to make them a victim? (answer: no) If they don't believe they are doing anything wrong, are they a victim? (again, no). If either of these were true, palestinians that strap bombs to themselves and run into a cafe would also be a "victim". Just because somebody is fuzzy on the whole "is it right or wrong" thing doesn't make them a victim.

It's not PC to call her a victim, it's PR. You can't win hearts & minds as easy if you call them what they really are...

 

[Stripe]

the mothers arent victims .. theyre murderers

 

[On Fire]

She is as much a victim as are smokers that get lung cancer.

I don't think a woman (no matter how dense they may be) that walks into a clinic magically becomes a "victim". There are of course some cases that may be contrary to this (girls under 18ish that are 'forced' by parents/boyfriend, women in china, etc... ) but most should not be considered victims.

When did people start thinking that doing something "wrong" makes you a victim? Is the fact that they are lied to make them a victim? (answer: no) If they don't believe they are doing anything wrong, are they a victim? (again, no). If either of these were true, palestinians that strap bombs to themselves and run into a cafe would also be a "victim". Just because somebody is fuzzy on the whole "is it right or wrong" thing doesn't make them a victim.

It's not PC to call her a victim, it's PR. You can't win hearts & minds as easy if you call them what they really are...

I agree. And the REAL issue, despite attempts to deflect it, is murdered babies. The ones who don't have a choice.

 

[Granite]

The ignorance and insensitivity on this thread coming from pro-lifers of all people is really reprehensible.

 

[On Fire]

You're a satanist. How could you possibly understand?

 

[Granite]

You don't know me and you ignored the PM I sent you yesterday, so this kind of flip arrogant ignorance isn't my problem.

 

[Servo]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well.

No one said that the woman does not suffer for the choice that she has made.

It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

Funny you make that claim when YOU are the one who wants to continually bicker about details that are clear.

No one said that the woman does not suffer for the choice that she has made.
So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

I already explained that. The even simpler answer is you NEVER deliberately kill an innocent life.

 

[wabbit]

The ignorance and insensitivity on this thread coming from pro-lifers of all people is really reprehensible.

I never said I was pro-life, or that I was a sensitive person.
I happen to see this debate in a different way than most.

I'm not going to feel sorry for somebody that makes a choice they know will have real consequences on their psyche or physical health. I will not affix the label "victim" on them because it makes people feel better about it. I may try to help them once they see (acknowledge) the damage they've done, but that's different than feeling sorry for them, or seeing them as a victim.

I don't think the 4-pack/day smoker that has lung cancer is a victim. The heroin addict isn't a victim. The 800lb man that eats 500 twinkies a day isn't a victim. The woman that goes into a clinic isn't a victim.

The world is harsh and insensitive. I don't think it's fair that people allow others to escape responsibility for their actions by allowing them to become "victims". I can't claim to be a victim because I didn't see the stop sign and get myself out of a ticket, why should somebody else that didn't see the warning signs for their actions?