Creation vs. Evolution

[Mark SeaSigh]

What?

No Proof for Speciation Yet?

That must be more than a Ten Hour C C C C Combo Breaker!!!

Read It, And Weep, Evols;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

Species - A Group of Animals which can Reproduce.

==================================

Barbie, was the First to Cry today; Who's Next?

Just as an aside, there is no biological law requiring that a population of two must go extinct. The odds are pretty strongly for that happening, but there are some cases where it didn't happen.

Never said there Was, I also know that Speciation Doesn't Occur in the Observable World, and there is proof that it Ever Has Occurred in Reality.

The Theory of Evolution is not a Theory which can explain to Any Degree, How the Various forms of Life we share this Planet With Came to be.

Prove me Wrong, Barbie.

==================================

Here is a Good Video, if you are Interested in this Subject;

An Introduction to Genetic Mutation;

I believe in Mutation; I don't believe in Speciation; Given if a Genome Mutated to the Point where it Can no Longer Interbreed With it's ancestral Species, It Cannot Reproduce With anything.

What is it going to reproduce with; if it's been rendered Incapable of Reproduction with it's Ancestral Line?

The theory of Evolution has Hijacked a much older Science Word, that Has Definition as a biological Term, and is based in reality; to create a Theory Which is not based in Truth.

The belief in the Theory of Evolution, as a means by which all the Various Animal Species Came to be; is Simply False.

=M=

 

[DFT_Dave]

I wonder if you are approaching this from the right direction Dave?
First of all we are rather compelled to accept that the evidence shows that the humans who have the sickle cell DNA are typically originating from areas of the world where malaria is a major threat.
This seems to indicate that the human population in those malaria prone areas are better off with a faulty gene because it just happens to provide resistance.
Even a faulty gene can produce a selectable trait.

In other areas of the world there would be no selectable value for an otherwise faulty gene that causes anaemia, so it is not found.
The down side is that misshapen blood cells don't flow as easily particularly around joints.
Clearly it is evidence that random adaptions are used when they just happen to occur and provide a benefit, else typically they are discarded. Beneficial adaptions can then be adapted again to provide a better benefit.

Species can't really not evolve imo, there is no barrier or ultimate goal to adapting if it confers a benefit of some kind.

The question is are those who have sickle cell evolving because of this mutation?

Are they a transitional Form?

--Dave

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

I have to admit that I can't help but agree with MarkS and DFT_Dave. They make the most sense, especially when you know what is written in the Bible. It seems that some don't know what is in the Bible. Clarity. That's what's in it.

God Be With All Of You As You Embark On Learning More!!

Michael

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

[Isaiah 44:24-28 KJV] 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise [men] backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: 27 That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers: 28 That saith of Cyrus, [He is] my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

=M=

[Judges 5:3 KJV] 3 Hear, O ye kings; give ear, O ye princes; I, [even] I, will sing unto the LORD; I will sing [praise] to the LORD God of Israel.

[1Chronicles 25:1 KJV] 1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was: 2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah, the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph, which prophesied according to the order of the king.

 

[patrick jane]

God does'nt wear a watch or check the calendar. time is meaningless to God. it only means something to us. when we let go of the time issues some folks have, when trying to understand the totality of God, i find comfort in not knowing everything. whether you take the time scale literally or as a story, there is much more evidence to support creationism and christianity than the absurd idea that everything came from nothing. i find a way to read the Bible objectively, differentiating between what to take literal or what not o. taking things into context and deciding what is personal opinion and what is from God. the only real fact is that nobody knows what happens when ya die. never has never will (while alive on earth). faith. nobody really has a whole big bunch, but we'd like to think we do. or at least appear to. hypocrisy. who among us ? ha. cuz if you had as much as a grain of mustard seed. no, but seriously, prayer works and faith is all we can have. it's all we got. but ALL things work toward Good and God's Will. it may not seem like it now but wait. patience. God has it. in the end God wins. no death, no sin, no pain, no suffering. everlasting presence of God, pure good, pure joy, peace and harmony. we will all know and be with God

 

[patrick jane]

A mathematical impossibility how, exactly?

yes it's true. if you ran the numbers. the odds. of the complexity of cells and dna as a happenstance you would see. i don't know it but they have been calculated and when i heard the #s it convinced me that it is indeed mathematically no frickin way !

 

[MichaelCadry]

Isaiah 45:12, "I (God) have made the earth, and created man upon it. I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all of their hosts I have commanded."

This is what the evolutionists are evidently missing. Or they just want to ignore it.

God Be With Us All,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear patrickjane,

You are quite wrong in much of your insinuations. I have been visited by angels a number of times. The first one said, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come upon all of the earth; and worship Him Who made the earth and heaven, and the sea and the fountains of waters." I've been visited by the Lord also. He told me, among other things, to "Calm yourself, and think of those you love." This was during a heart attack that I was having. You don't know diddly squat. And when the Lord spoke to me, I didn't see Him, but I heard Him speak in a booming, commanding, clear, concise voice and words. I listened to Him, and the third thing that He said to me was, "Call in your mother." (Into my bedroom where I was laying down, having just going to sleep). I went to call her and could not get any sound out, but I knew what He told me and kept calling over and over and finally my voice got loud enough and she came running in the room, saying, "Michael, what's wrong, what's wrong." I didn't tell her what I'd just gone through, because it was so new to me myself. She rocked me to sleep with my head in her lap, and I shouldn't have to be rewriting this when it is in my book which is available FREE online.

Watch What You Think Is True,

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

I wonder if you are approaching this from the right direction Dave?
First of all we are rather compelled to accept that the evidence shows that the humans who have the sickle cell DNA are typically originating from areas of the world where malaria is a major threat.
This seems to indicate that the human population in those malaria prone areas are better off with a faulty gene because it just happens to provide resistance.
Even a faulty gene can produce a selectable trait.

In other areas of the world there would be no selectable value for an otherwise faulty gene that causes anaemia, so it is not found.
The down side is that misshapen blood cells don't flow as easily particularly around joints.
Clearly it is evidence that random adaptions are used when they just happen to occur and provide a benefit, else typically they are discarded. Beneficial adaptions can then be adapted again to provide a better benefit.

Species can't really not evolve imo, there is no barrier or ultimate goal to adapting if it confers a benefit of some kind.

jumpin in late, i'm new but i like what this said, i'm not a scientist. opportunity and working with what's available seems to be the natural order of life. the general concept of evolution is obvious. but the missing link is God i think. I believe in evolution created by God. however, the concept of everything from nothing is so amusing to me. theoretical phycisists are better than stand up comics. alot of folks waste alot of time trying to pick one way

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

: D

This Post Self-Destructed on; 1/18/15

Have a Great Day!


=M=

 

[patrick jane]

Surprising that any creationist anywhere still denies speciation. Not only is it observed happening, creationists themselves now admit it's a fact.

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

Only "Creationists" that don't believe in the God of the Bible.

=M=

And if you think the word, "Theory" means "Law".

Do you really dare to do this?

Patrick Jane:whip:

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

Are you a Unitarian, or don't you have a Religion?

=M=

On a Side Note, I would like to take the Time to talk about some "Evolutionists" from the Past;

Eugenics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

From the Article;

"eugenics as a modern concept was originally developed by Francis Galton. Galton had read his half-cousin Charles Darwin's theory of evolution"

"in the 1920s and 30s, the eugenic policy of sterilizing certain mental patients was implemented in other countries, including Belgium,[16] Brazil,[17] Canada,[18] Japan, and Sweden.[19]"

"The scientific reputation of eugenics started to decline in the 1930s, a time when Ernst Rüdin used eugenics as a justification for the racial policies of Nazi Germany. Nevertheless, in Sweden the eugenics program continued until 1975.[19] In addition to being practiced in a number of countries, eugenics was internationally organized through the International Federation of Eugenics Organizations.[20] Its scientific aspects were carried on through research bodies such as the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics,[21] the Cold Spring Harbour Carnegie Institution for Experimental Evolution,[22] and the Eugenics Record Office.[23] Its political aspects involved advocating laws allowing the pursuit of eugenic objectives, such as sterilization laws.[24] Its moral aspects included rejection of the doctrine that all human beings are born equal, and redefining morality purely in terms of genetic fitness.[25] Its racist elements included pursuit of a pure "Nordic race" or "Aryan" genetic pool and the eventual elimination of "less fit" races.[26][27]"

Wiki's Definition;

Eugenics (/juːˈdʒɛnɪks/; from Greek εὐγενής eugenes "well-born" from εὖ eu, "good, well" and γένος genos, "race")[2][3] is the belief and practice of improving the genetic quality of the human population.[4][5] It is a social philosophy advocating the improvement of human genetic traits through the promotion of higher reproduction of people with desired traits (positive eugenics), and reduced reproduction of people with less-desired or undesired traits (negative eugenics).[6]

Webster Dictionary Definition;

eu·gen·ics
noun plural but singular in construction \yü-ˈje-niks\

: a science that tries to improve the human race by controlling which people become parents
Full Definition of EUGENICS
: a science that deals with the improvement (as by control of human mating) of hereditary qualities of a race or breed


"New Internet Dictionary" Definition;

eugenics
[yoo-jen-iks]

Examples
Word Origin

noun, ( used with a singular verb)
1.
the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

What I mean is; are you a person that just believes in things that there is no proof of, or do you actually have a reason for believing in Speciation?

Can you give me a Personal Definition of the Word "Speciation"?

=M=

Or,

Why do you believe in Evolution?

[Hosea 4:1-9 KJV] 1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. 2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. 3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. 4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people [are] as they that strive with the priest. 5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: [therefore] will I change their glory into shame. 8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity. 9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

 

[patrick jane]

God

God

it seems simple to me. evolution is a fact. so is God. God created everything and the earth is subect to physical and natural laws. everything is an expression of God, except evil. then i have to ask, how did God ever allow evil to exist. was it inevitable ? is it a process that must occur as a result of God's creation. He must have known what would happen. so why create anything at all ? because perhaps, God does not work on a time scale. when we read the Bible like a lawyer anyone can pick apart the holes. especially, the Old Testament. it doesn't make sense. it portrays God as destructive and veangeful. was God still learning ? i think not, the writers and stories are tilted towards an agenda but parts of God's Will are accurate. hipocrasy rules the day now. always has ? we were'nt there. we don't know. science is good and necessary but needs humility. we all suffer from the human condition. count your trials as Blessings. we might get 100 trips around the sun tops and the only question i have is . . . why ? we see so much evil and destruction, death and suffering. selfishness, greed, pride. all 3 are 1 in the same. we cannot overcome it but by the Grace of God. Jesus overcame for us. unfortunately, that simple fact gets perverted by overzealous self proclaimed "christians". evolution exists because of God. i can't explain it, nobody can. some science trys to and wants to prove that God does'nt exist, it's like a cartoon character trying to prove that the artist isn't real. good luck, you get 100 years. God Willing

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

it seems simple to me. evolution is a fact. so is God. God created everything and the earth is subect to physical and natural laws. everything is an expression of God, except evil. then i have to ask, how did God ever allow evil to exist. was it inevitable ? is it a process that must occur as a result of God's creation. He must have known what would happen. so why create anything at all ? because perhaps, God does not work on a time scale. when we read the Bible like a lawyer anyone can pick apart the holes. especially, the Old Testament. it doesn't make sense. it portrays God as destructive and veangeful. was God still learning ? i think not, the writers and stories are tilted towards an agenda but parts of God's Will are accurate. hipocrasy rules the day now. always has ? we were'nt there. we don't know. science is good and necessary but needs humility. we all suffer from the human condition. count your trials as Blessings. we might get 100 trips around the sun tops and the only question i have is . . . why ? we see so much evil and destruction, death and suffering. selfishness, greed, pride. all 3 are 1 in the same. we cannot overcome it but by the Grace of God. Jesus overcame for us. unfortunately, that simple fact gets perverted by overzealous self proclaimed "christians". evolution exists because of God. i can't explain it, nobody can. some science trys to and wants to prove that God does'nt exist, it's like a cartoon character trying to prove that the artist isn't real. good luck, you get 100 years. God Willing

I knew you were hiding just long enough for me to leave; That's why I hid too, to trick you. Now I'm Back Again!!!
I've got you right where I want you, Girl.

=M=

The Theory of Evolution is not Science; Science is Observed Truth.

"Speciation" has never been observed, and Speciation is the main Device in the Theory of Evolution by which the theory of Evolution States New Species Arise.

Since the Theory of Evolution, is the Theory of a Possible Origins of the Various Species on this Planet came to be.

Evolution has never been Observed, and the Theory Remains a Theory.

I don't really care if you don't like it or believe that it's still A Theory, and True Speciation has never been observed; I'm telling you to Prove that It's not a Theory, and that Speciation has been Observed.

Also, there are Plenty of Scientists that have Rejected Evolution.

Many Geneticists and Gonomicists reject the Idea of Abiogenesis;

I know you probably don't believe in Abiogenesis, do you?

I mean; if you believe in God, just not the God of the Bible, Right?

 

[patrick jane]

old testament

old testament

i'm not ripping the old testament as it prohesies of Jesus Christ, i simply cannot accept all of it as literal truth. war, anger, revenge, and simply the appearance of evil right off the bat. how does my God even let evil (satan) get a group together and say see ya God, we're gonna go mess with your new creation. oh, cuz we know you won't stop us. the old testament implies often tha God is full of pride, ego, anger, revenge, spite and just plain mean, and i don't like it. seems too much like me or you might be. aah that we even have the luxury to contemplate. what a multi-verse we live in !

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

Great Job answering any of those Big Blue Questions above, by the Way.

I guess, I will answer your One Obviously Loaded Question.

So, I know you don't believe in the God of the Bible, now; you just admitted it. Your god would never allow the things in the Biblical work, right?

=M=

So, does your god do anything at all?

Do you really have a god?

Does your god Have a Name?


Does your god have Hands?

Or, are you just an Atheist, that claims to be a Christian?
A Useless Troll Tool, for the Enjoyment of People like me, and Others.

Like AL, Hi AL!!! : D

======================================

Let's stay on topic, though; Why do you believe in Evolution; If there is no evidence for Speciation?

 

[alwight]

The question is are those who have sickle cell evolving because of this mutation?

Are they a transitional Form?

--Dave

We each represent an example of a transitional form and evolution doesn't simply stop or reach an objective.
Acquiring resistance to diseases that are themselves evolving would also be a form of adaption. Arguably however such adaption may not be happening if science prevents diseases from killing those more susceptible.

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

Right, AL;

You believe that Evolution happens, All the Time!!!

Where?

LOL!!!

Speciation is the Theory of Evolution, biologically speaking.

If there is No Proof for Speciation, how is there Proof for Evolution?

=M=

What was the Title of Darwin's Book, again?

You believe that Evolution Caused Stars to be, you think Evolution started the First Life on this Planet.
Hmm?

Or, you believe that some Meteor landed here long ago, which contained life that Evolved on some Other Planet.

Either Way, you think it happens, you believe that it Happens; Where is the Evidence?

Did you know that Other Scientists of Darwin's Day, Rejected Darwin?

science prevents diseases from killing those more susceptible.

Right, AL; you believe that we should use Techniques to keep some people from Reproducing with the Rest of the Population.
I Understand.

You want people to Get a Disease which Restricts the Oxygen capabilities of Red Blood Cells.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...lood_disorders/sickle_cell_disease_85,P00101/

Evolution, Right..... More like Mutation, and Genetic Disorder Disease.

What does that have to do with Speciation, AL; Or, the Theory of how the Various Forms of Animals came to be on this Planet?

What does the Word "Evolution" Mean to you, Biologically?

The very fact that Evolutionists have to reach to Destructive Genetic Mutation, (which doesn't make New Reproductive Animals, instead it Causes them to become Unable to Reproduce); Shows the Lack of Evidence for the Theory of Evolution.

The Theory of Evolution is Dead; Except to those who Still believe in Her.
Barbie?

Clap if you Believe!!!

I know!!! Maybe you can go teach Children Evolution!!!
Then maybe they will believe!!!

Start them young though, when their Ability to reason is still Low.
That way they will never Learn to Think Critically their Entire Lives.

Or, Realize how to use Simple Comparison Logic, like Comparative Reasoning.