Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

I officially pass the torch !! I certify with TOL as my witness, I'm giving this thread to DavisBJ. That's it, this is now DavisBJ's thread. :rapture:

Dear patrick jane,

No, you cannot give it to DavisBJ. I gave it to you and if you didn't want it, then you return it back to me. DavisBJ is an atheist, so that is why I didn't give it to him. I entrusted it to you. I now take back possession of it.

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Dear patrick jane,

No, you cannot give it to DavisBJ. I gave it to you and if you didn't want it, then you return it back to me. DavisBJ is an atheist, so that is why I didn't give it to him. I entrusted it to you. I now take back possession of it.

Michael

OK, I'll let you have it back ? I would still post everyday, that's all I could have done anyway. I was kidding, I said it's always your thread, did you see that post ? I think sometime you ignore my posts because you respond to so many. Now I'm taking it back - it's my thread again now

 

[MichaelCadry]

Well, without "useless blind assertions" we don't know anything about pre Big Bang existence, and "we" includes both you and Bible authors. Nor do you or them, or anyone else, have the slightest clue as to what might have "always existed". Claim whatever you want but we all know you don't really know.

Nothing illogical about that....... my friend!



Assertion by cherished belief, which is not evidence. If that isn't a recognised logical fallacy then it should be. How can something "always" exist "apart from time"? What does "always" mean apart from time? Thanks.

Dear Hedshaker,

Time as we humans know it began in the beginning, when God started our time. As for God's beginning, it doesn't say, and He didn't want to share such a thing with us. He is timeless. But He is ENDLESS!! Hope that answers your question.

Much Love & Care,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

OK, I'll let you have it back ? I would still post everyday, that's all I could have done anyway. I was kidding, I said it's always your thread, did you see that post ? I think sometime you ignore my posts because you respond to so many. Now I'm taking it back - it's my thread again now

Dear patrick,

OK, you'll let me have it back? Is that what you are saying. I do read all of your posts. I never ignore your posts. I am always happy to get them. Can't you tell since I use different fonts for you? I know you like them, so I do it as often as I can. Are you saying you want it back? If so, please do not give it to anyone so quickly. I worked for over two years on it and it was hard work, definitely. Please do not give it to an atheist. I entrusted it to you, but I won't sit idly by and let you give it to an atheist. Otherwise, I will take it back myself. I'm not giving up over two years of my life for nothing. If you don't want to keep it, let me know and I will take it back.

God Be With You Always,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :rapture:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

This is 'a theist' thread, not an 'atheist' thread. Guess that was forgotten. It always will be. I've worked hard on this thread for over 2 years. There have been times that were very hard on me. No disrespect. Just reluctant! What do you think, 6days? You know what I think??

God Be With You All, Atheist Or Not!!

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture: :rapture:
​

 

[Hedshaker]

Evidence my friend.... it is what you don't have. It is why people who don't have the slightest clue invent or even assert scenarios like multivariate. ..cold whoosh...everything from nothing...Quantum fluctuations....etc.

Logic / evidence points towards an eternally existing intelligence... our Creator.
"In the beginning, God created..."

Lol, I can almost see from here your eyes glaze over when confronted with the meaning of "always" apart from time. But lets not mention logic problems eh? No, lets just spout a few religions platitudes instead. Yeah! in the beginning god created.... Oh yeah, that's the ticket.

But once you've sorted out the logical "always" apart from time problem, perhaps you'll explain how you know there ever was, "nothing"?

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

Time as we humans know it began in the beginning, when God started our time. As for God's beginning, it doesn't say, and He didn't want to share such a thing with us. He is timeless. But He is ENDLESS!! Hope that answers your question.

Began in the beginning of what? Beginning like "always" is a temporal term. What? Did God poof time into existence "before" creating the universe? How long did it take him to do that? Ooops, there's that nasty logic problem again. Oh well, lets get quickly back to the platitudes and maybe no one will notice.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Hedshaker,

I suppose before God was creating life on Earth, He was creating life on Mars. Mars just got slung out into a different orbit compared to being where the Earth is now. Do you know what I'm saying here. Of course, I am not 100% sure, but I think there were men on Mars and they couldn't learn how to quit warring/fighting with each other. I would figure that Mars has two moons, one for God and one for the Lord Jesus. Now, you force me to tell another secret that most of you won't be able to bear. You know how the Lord says the Earth is His Footstool, and how it is written that God is sitting in His Great White Throne? I know for a fact that God's Spirit is in our Moon, and that is His Heavenly Body where He circles us every 24 hours and tends to us from His Throne, and we are as His footstool. The Lord revealed this to me, but you can pshaw it all you want. You will notice two eyes, a nose and a mouth when you look at a full moon. Perhaps He will reveal Himself to you. I know you are adamant about it now and think it is silly or I am a nut, but you shall find out what I already know. Of course, when He comes in an earthly body, He looks different.

It is also written in Daniel 12:3KJV, that we shall be as the stars forever and ever. Check it out. Our heavenly bodies will reside on stars. You don't have to believe me, because I already know it for a fact, and I don't care. See Rev. 20:11KJV. His "Great WHITE Throne." Well, this is one secret that I have tried to keep moot from everyone on TOL. I guess I will spill the beans. Maybe it's the right time. Everyone shall find this out before Jesus comes. Jesus said you shall see a sign in Heaven prior to His Coming Again. So those of us who are ready to go to Heaven this time around will go and be as the stars forever. I read somewhere also that "the stars are the warehouses of angels." God's Spirit is everywhere, but His Base Station is our Moon which circles us every 24 hours so He can keep dibs on us and take care of us. You don't have to believe me.

Any Questions, Just Ask, Buddy!!

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel:

 

[Hedshaker]

<snip fairy tales>

Any Questions, Just Ask, Buddy!!

Sure. I have it on good authority from the fairy queen that pixies rule the moon, not the gods and Mars is ruled by Hobgoblins. Do you deny this?

If so take it up with the fairy queen :kookoo: :kookoo:

 

[6days]

But once you've sorted out the logical "always" apart from time problem, perhaps you'll explain how you know there ever was, "nothing"?

It's illogical to believe there was ever nothing.
That is the explanation some atheists give though...everything came from nothing.

The most logical explanation..."In the beginning, God created..."

 

[Hedshaker]

It's illogical to believe there was ever nothing.

Not so much illogical as unknown by anyone, including you and Bible authors.

That is the explanation some atheists give though...everything came from nothing.

I've never heard one say that. Good strawman though. Much easer to address than what was actually asked.

The most logical explanation..."In the beginning, God created..."

Sure.... but was this beginning before or after he poofed time? Ooops!

 

[Hedshaker]

Evolution is supported by science. Creationism is asserted by religion.

Evidence for Evolution

 

[alwight]

It's illogical to believe there was ever nothing.
That is the explanation some atheists give though...everything came from nothing.

The most logical explanation..."In the beginning, God created..."

Atheists have no more knowledge than you do if there even was a "beginning". The difference is that you point to an ancient scripture as if it were somehow irrefutable evidence of itself, which btw it isn't.
The most logical and best evidenced explanation is that the universe as we know it started with a singularity. It is unknown if that were the absolute beginning of everything or just the point at which better information is required, your ancient scripture doesn't equate to better information.

 

[iouae]

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This could refer to when all matter was created....
Or it could refer to the beginning of the new heavens (atmosphere) and new earth.

There are many beginnings mentioned in the Bible...


Proverbs 8:22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.


Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.


John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.


Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

It is clear from the context that all the above verses are speaking of different beginnings to the Gen 1:1 beginning.

Science says that the earth came into being 7 billion years after the Big Bang.
Science would object to taking literally that heaven and earth came into being simultaneously as Gen 1:1 implies "In the beginning, God created the heaven and earth".

But what if Gen 1:1 is NOT speaking of the beginning beginning or very beginning (what science would call the Big Bang).

What if Gen 1:1 is speaking about a time 6000 years ago when a new heaven (atmosphere) and a new earth (landmass - biome) were created?

To be continued...

 

[patrick jane]

Atheists have no more knowledge than you do if there even was a "beginning". The difference is that you point to an ancient scripture as if it were somehow irrefutable evidence of itself, which btw it isn't.
The most logical and best evidenced explanation is that the universe as we know it started with a singularity. It is unknown if that were the absolute beginning of everything or just the point at which better information is required, your ancient scripture doesn't equate to better information.

Yeah, it makes sense that ALL KNOWN MATTER was condensed to a point smaller than a pin head ? Oh yeah, that makes lots of sense !

 

[patrick jane]

Evolution is supported by science. Creationism is asserted by religion.

Evidence for Evolution

fish fingers ?

 

[Jonahdog]

fish fingers ?

You think whales are fish?

 

[iouae]

Yeah, it makes sense that ALL KNOWN MATTER was condensed to a point smaller than a pin head ? Oh yeah, that makes lots of sense !

In theory, energy does not occupy space, only matter does.
And Einstein showed that these two are interchangeable by his formula E = m c squared.

So God may have poured energy out of Himself into the "vacuum" of space, and that energy may have occupied a pin head at first, even if God did it that way, converting what is invisible (energy) into what is visible (matter).

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him (E or energy) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (m = mass or matter) , even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[DavisBJ]

Yeah, it makes sense that ALL KNOWN MATTER was condensed to a point smaller than a pin head ? Oh yeah, that makes lots of sense !

Since nature is not beholden to satisfy what we think makes sense, it would probably be more wise to actually see what the rules nature abides by say. Have you looked at the physics involved in the first few minutes after the big bang?

 

[Jonahdog]

In theory, energy does not occupy space, only matter does.
And Einstein showed that these two are interchangeable by his formula E = m c squared.

So God may have poured energy out of Himself into the "vacuum" of space, and that energy may have occupied a pin head at first, even if God did it that way, converting what is invisible (energy) into what is visible (matter).

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him (E or energy) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (m = mass or matter) , even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Another attempt to contort the Bible into science.