Creation vs. Evolution

[DavisBJ]

No. What my reply was addressing was your underlying reasoning that guides you in your religion.

You know so little about me as to make that a ludicrous claim. I am getting the impression that you have no recourse but to create straw-man caricatures of why I believe as I do. I understand, there are “Christians” who can’t stomach the idea of someone honestly coming to a conclusion about God that is at variance with your beliefs.

 

[noguru]

You know so little about me as to make that a ludicrous claim. I am getting the impression that you have no recourse but to create straw-man caricatures of why I believe as I do. I understand, there are “Christians” who can’t stomach the idea of someone honestly coming to a conclusion about God that is at variance with your beliefs.

These fundies belief they are beyond reproach and that they may question others to their hearts content. They think their theological stance insulates them from any criticism. It is typical political positioning on their part. But ultimately they only do themselves a disservice.

 

[noguru]

No. What my reply was addressing was your underlying reasoning that guides you in your religion.

Natural explanations are by definition not a religion in the same sense that "supernatural" claims are. But it appears that no matter how many times you are corrected on your error you will continue to repeat it.

 

[alwight]

How do you know what my needs are or if I have any at all? All I stated is that I love God because He gave me the capacity to love Him.

Clearly you do have a need for the God of the Bible to exist. You simply won't accept that that anything else could be true and have probably invented your own to suit.

I noticed in your last you used the word, "subservient". I really don't wonder why you used it however, it is obvious I was correct when said you would have no God over you. You see yourself as being your own god. All who do so should realize they are a religion unto themselves. So don't ever again you are not religious.

So shoot me if I do consider myself to be a sentient being who didn't actually ask to be here just to be subservient to a supposedly vastly more powerful entity than myself. Even if that were true why is it right that I have to remain servile now and for eternity, does might make right? You may not mind too much but why should I have to kowtow for ever, what morality do you think gives your God that right over me?
I certainly don't want to be a god and I don't want to inflict that "morality" on any other sentient being.

Yeah but, she didn't know either what she was, given her mixed up religious background [Quaker, Unitarian, Agnostic]. At least with you I know where you stand i.e., completely in the dark __ living by Christian principles.

Then you have in all probability simply created your own "God" and "principles" inside your own head, who is just how you wish your "God" to be within your personal delusion.
If you want me to be subservient to your idea of "God" rather than any real divinity, then sorry but fat chance that won't ever happen, so you can perhaps stuff that where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned CR. lain:

 

[patrick jane]

If pigs had wings...


It does not rub me the wrong way. I have become accustomed to people making unreasonable claims. It is part of the landscape, has been that way down through the ages.

But it don't fly the way it use to.

Also you do not seem to be understanding my point. I am not questioning your belief in God in the face of all else around. I have that same faith. I just do not uncritically accept the "fundamentalist" interpretation of scripture. Thorough research and rigorous critical analysis makes it clear that such a view is inaccurate.

wrong

plus, i never made any claims. i meant, if had the same brain, comprehension of words, ability to understand in a cave the same as i can now as i sit in a house, that i would conclude the same thing. iow, without church etc. i used a cave as an extreme example, sorry if you can't grasp it -

imo, you seem to push your agenda pretty hard and I'm glad i don't know what it is. i'm fully persuaded now to never pay attention to any of your posts -

 

[DavisBJ]

This is an abstract of a very recent study about natural ways in which some of the elements of biological life could have come about. This is for CR and Cadry to enjoy.

From: Earth and Planetary Science Letters

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X15004926

Online date: 16 August 2015
Article: Nucleobase and amino acid formation through impacts of meteorites on the early ocean

Authors: Yoshihiro Furukawa, Hiromoto Nakazawa, Toshimori Sekine, Takamichi Kobayashi, Takeshi Kakegawa

Highlights​

Experimental simulations of meteorite impacts on the early ocean were conducted.
Both nucleobases and amino acids were formed from inorganic materials.
Such reactions may have generated building blocks for life on prebiotic Earth.

Abstract​

The emergence of life's building blocks on the prebiotic Earth was the first crucial step for the origins of life. Extraterrestrial delivery of intact amino acids and nucleobases is the prevailing hypothesis for their availability on prebiotic Earth because of the difficulties associated with the production of these organics from terrestrial carbon and nitrogen sources under plausible prebiotic conditions. However, the variety and amounts of these intact organics delivered by meteorites would have been limited. Previous shock–recovery experiments have demonstrated that meteorite impact reactions could have generated organics on the prebiotic Earth. Here, we report on the simultaneous formation of nucleobases (cytosine and uracil) found in DNA and/or RNA, various proteinogenic amino acids (glycine, alanine, serine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, valine, leucine, isoleucine, and proline), non-proteinogenic amino acids, and aliphatic amines in experiments simulating reactions induced by extraterrestrial objects impacting on the early oceans. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of the formation of nucleobases from inorganic materials by shock conditions. In these experiments, bicarbonate was used as the carbon source. Bicarbonate, which is a common dissolved carbon species in CO2-rich atmospheric conditions, was presumably the most abundant carbon species in the early oceans and in post-impact plumes. Thus, the present results expand the possibility that impact-induced reactions generated various building blocks for life on prebiotic Earth in large quantities through the use of terrestrial carbon reservoirs.​

 

[alwight]

These fundies belief they are beyond reproach and that they may question others to their hearts content. They think their theological stance insulates them from any criticism. It is typical political positioning on their part. But ultimately they only do themselves a disservice.

It's all about absolutes. The fundie God is an absolutely powerful entity and whatever their God does is always absolutely moral, whatever it is.
Therefore they think that they are absolutely moral too and entitled to command the power of the fundie God over those who have the nerve to ask reasonable and rational questions and doubt them.

 

[noguru]

wrong

plus, i never made any claims. i meant, if had the same brain, comprehension of words, ability to understand in a cave the same as i can now as i sit in a house, that i would conclude the same thing. iow, without church etc. i used a cave as an extreme example, sorry if you can't grasp it -

imo, you seem to push your agenda pretty hard and I'm glad i don't know what it is. i'm fully persuaded now to never pay attention to any of your posts -

Alright then. That makes lots of sense. Good luck.

I am glad you posted all this not to make any claims.

My only agenda is to be as accurate as humanly possible. I am sorry you have a problem with that.

 

[MichaelCadry]

This is an abstract of a very recent study about natural ways in which some of the elements of biological life could have come about. This is for CR and Cadry to enjoy.

From: Earth and Planetary Science Letters

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X15004926

Online date: 16 August 2015
Article: Nucleobase and amino acid formation through impacts of meteorites on the early ocean

Authors: Yoshihiro Furukawa, Hiromoto Nakazawa, Toshimori Sekine, Takamichi Kobayashi, Takeshi Kakegawa

Highlights​

Experimental simulations of meteorite impacts on the early ocean were conducted.
Both nucleobases and amino acids were formed from inorganic materials.
Such reactions may have generated building blocks for life on prebiotic Earth.

Abstract​

The emergence of life's building blocks on the prebiotic Earth was the first crucial step for the origins of life. Extraterrestrial delivery of intact amino acids and nucleobases is the prevailing hypothesis for their availability on prebiotic Earth because of the difficulties associated with the production of these organics from terrestrial carbon and nitrogen sources under plausible prebiotic conditions. However, the variety and amounts of these intact organics delivered by meteorites would have been limited. Previous shock–recovery experiments have demonstrated that meteorite impact reactions could have generated organics on the prebiotic Earth. Here, we report on the simultaneous formation of nucleobases (cytosine and uracil) found in DNA and/or RNA, various proteinogenic amino acids (glycine, alanine, serine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, valine, leucine, isoleucine, and proline), non-proteinogenic amino acids, and aliphatic amines in experiments simulating reactions induced by extraterrestrial objects impacting on the early oceans. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of the formation of nucleobases from inorganic materials by shock conditions. In these experiments, bicarbonate was used as the carbon source. Bicarbonate, which is a common dissolved carbon species in CO2-rich atmospheric conditions, was presumably the most abundant carbon species in the early oceans and in post-impact plumes. Thus, the present results expand the possibility that impact-induced reactions generated various building blocks for life on prebiotic Earth in large quantities through the use of terrestrial carbon reservoirs.​

Dear BJ,

A lot of IF's, if I do say so myself. To me, this is just rubbish. I don't believe that God waited a day for a meteorite to impact the Earth. So you believe in this rubbish, and I'll believe in my God!! A lot of scientific rhetoric, to me.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Clearly you do have a need for the God of the Bible to exist. You simply won't accept that that anything else could be true and have probably invented your own to suit.


So shoot me if I do consider myself to be a sentient being who didn't actually ask to be here just to be subservient to a supposedly vastly more powerful entity than myself. Even if that were true why is it right that I have to remain servile now and for eternity, does might make right? You may not mind too much but why should I have to kowtow for ever, what morality do you think gives your God that right over me?
I certainly don't want to be a god and I don't want to inflict that "morality" on any other sentient being.

Then you have in all probability simply created your own "God" and "principles" inside your own head, who is just how you wish your "God" to be within your personal delusion.
If you want me to be subservient to your idea of "God" rather than any real divinity, then sorry but fat chance that won't ever happen, so you can perhaps stuff that where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned CR. lain:

Dear alwight,

I don't know about subservient. But yes, we all are children of God and we will all live 'under His roof.' The prophets are the servants of God. We shall be like the angels, who enjoy serving God. Doing what our Father wants us to is just part of having a life. He gives much more of Himself to us than we deserve. So it is alright to give of ourselves to Him also. Is that too much to ask, Al? We adults are like children to Him, and He is a Father to us.

Much Love From God And Me,

Michael

:comeout: :nono: :cloud9: :thumb:

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear BJ,

A lot of IF's, if I do say so myself. To me, this is just rubbish. I don't believe that God waited a day for a meteorite to impact the Earth. So you believe in this rubbish, and I'll believe in my God!! A lot of scientific rhetoric, to me.

Michael

That was an interesting response. This thread, though titled as dealing with creation and evolution, has seldom dealt with specific details of evolution. But now, when I offer a typical article dealing with recent scientific research into (not actually evolution, but abiogenesis), you respond with an intemperate attack like you had been personally insulted. Did you get caught eating an oyster today?

Anyway, Michael, I am quite certain you understood almost none of what was said in the abstract to the article, and simply saw that it had to do with a scientific study on something you don’t believe in. Even if you had carefully read the abstract, I doubt your poor understanding of science would have been of much help. Your response had no pretense of dealing with the science, and accordingly I see nothing I need to respond to, since I do not put much credence in your ancient tribal creation customs that you give such devotion to. I suggest you return to your study of what the best way is to use your axe and sword to behead an infant child, just in case your God asks you to do as He did those of old.

Leave the science to those who actually understand it. (And why the famine of rep points from you for so long???)

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I don't know about subservient. But yes, we all are children of God and we will all live 'under His roof.' The prophets are the servants of God. We shall be like the angels, who enjoy serving God. Doing what our Father wants us to is just part of having a life. He gives much more of Himself to us than we deserve. So it is alright to give of ourselves to Him also. Is that too much to ask, Al? We adults are like children to Him, and He is a Father to us.

Much Love From God And Me,

Michael

:comeout: :nono: :cloud9: :thumb:

Your whimsical notions of a fabulous Godly realm and its wondrously, eternal, structured supernatural hierarchy Michael is a pure religiously inspired fantasy.
Face it Michael, no such thing is at all likely to be even close to the truth if only because it is merely that which other human beings have imagined down the ages and you have latched onto it, just as all those others do around the world with a quite different set of fantastic beliefs.
We stopped being children after puberty but yearning for a benevolent father figure who looks after us and tells us what to do is what some adults still want to cling to it seems.

I have no intention of ever being subservient to what are after all only other people's supernatural assertions, but I also object to the very idea that I have somehow been called into existence for the absolutely pointless purpose of eternal servitude to a supposed omnipotent entity, it's too ridiculous.
Also I dispute that we live under any godly "roof". As far as we can tell we are here purely by chance and should try to deal with this reality, bravely, as it actually is, not construct a perhaps more comforting fantasy opiate, let's try to grow up and take some responsibility here for our own lives! lain:

 

[Cross Reference]

Natural explanations are by definition not a religion in the same sense that "supernatural" claims are. But it appears that no matter how many times you are corrected on your error you will continue to repeat it.

Quit with the empty words. You worship yourself. It's unmistakeable.

 

[Cross Reference]

Natural explanations are by definition not a religion in the same sense that "supernatural" claims are. But it appears that no matter how many times you are corrected on your error you will continue to repeat it.

Natural explanations are by nature, natural. By nature, man is a worshiper __ and always has been a worshipper.

See anything that fact that you might like to ponder?

 

[noguru]

Quit with the empty words. You worship yourself. It's unmistakeable.

You are an idiot to tell me what I think. This is why people like you are disgusting and oppressive.

I pray to God every day because of morons like you in this world. You are clueless and the collateral damage you cause is immense. You are just too stupid to realize it.

As I said, I pray to God every day that there is something higher as a purpose than just this physical existence. I just have no empirical evidence that anyone is listening. At least I am honest about that. I do not overstate my case for the "supernatural" by trying to attach my theological beliefs to some imagined "unity" of "tradition and authority". Nor do I base any of my beliefs, as you do, in unfounded and inaccurate views of the natural world.

This is another thing that makes people like you very dangerous. If you are not seeing the natural world accurately, how can we have any confidence in your actions?

 

[noguru]

Natural explanations are by nature, natural. By nature, man is a worshiper __ and always has been a worshipper.

See anything that fact that you might like to ponder?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Understanding the natural world is not worship. Worship is usually tied to misunderstanding the power of something/someone.

Hope in the afterlife is not stringently tied to the worship you imagine. Again you demonstrate how inept and dull minded you are.

I am glad that people like you are not in a position to run the world anymore through tyranny. Your character comes shinning through. You are inept and therefore less capable than most others.

 

[Cross Reference]

Clearly you do have a need for the God of the Bible to exist. You simply won't accept that that anything else could be true and have probably invented your own to suit.

You could not possibly have arrived at that conclusion from what I have posted. So that is simply more willful ignorance on your part that you spam up to distract away from your problem.

So shoot me if I do consider myself to be a sentient being who didn't actually ask to be here just to be subservient to a supposedly vastly more powerful entity than myself. Even if that were true why is it right that I have to remain servile now and for eternity, does might make right? You may not mind too much but why should I have to kowtow for ever, what morality do you think gives your God that right over me?

First off, love doesn't demand anything. God is LOVE. His Being is LOVE. Only LOVE can create, bring into existence that which previously did not exist.

I certainly don't want to be a god and I don't want to inflict that "morality" on any other sentient being.

We humans are called "gods" in the scriptures. After all, we were created, emotionally as well physically, in the image of the One Who is the supreme God, purposed, by Him, to become as He is. Perhaps you never realized that? Now, what is in the way of that being possible is the nature given us which declares it shall have no other god over it. God has declared [no demand here] that there is no other way than we give up our rights to ourselves, to become He is. In this, He can be seen as 'Father' over all His creation AND has held Himself personally responsible for the failures of all mankind, the evidence of it we both can witness in our everyday life, life being so tragic. For this reason was Jesus Christ sent into the world to speak of it and die for the solution to the problem be made effective. I hope you have the good sense to ponder all that before rejecting any part of it.

Moving on:

Then you have in all probability simply created your own "God" and "principles" inside your own head, who is just how you wish your "God" to be within your personal delusion.

I have created nothing. I love God and Jesus Christ Whom He has sent. Him only will I serve.

If you want me to be subservient to your idea of "God" rather than any real divinity, then sorry but fat chance that won't ever happen, so you can perhaps stuff that where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned CR. lain:

Caution with your words: Repentance might soon be impossible for you if you keep rejecting God's invitation for being included in His Eternal life.

 

[noguru]

First off, love doesn't demand anything. God is LOVE. His Being is LOVE. Only LOVE can create, bring into existence that which previously did not exist.

So you idea of God and love does not demand "worship", as you so carelessly mentioned in a previous post to me?

Quit with the empty words. You worship yourself. It's unmistakeable.

Natural explanations are by definition not a religion in the same sense that "supernatural" claims are. But it appears that no matter how many times you are corrected on your error you will continue to repeat it.

 

[Cross Reference]

You are an idiot to tell me what I think. This is why people like you are disgusting and oppressive.

I am not saying I know what you think. However, I am saying I know HOW you think __ and the reason you must think that way.

Am I an idiot, a moron? Maybe __ but I am one up on you.

 

[noguru]

I am not saying I know what you think. However, I am saying I know HOW you think __ and the reason you must think that way.

How is telling me "what I think" any different than claiming you know "how I think" and "the reason I think that"?

I don't care how you phrase it, you cannot read my mind. You have no idea "what", "how, or "why" I think things. You are rude and oppressive to claim that you do, and not actually hear what it is I did say.