Creation vs. Evolution

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

Hey, dear friend, why do you treat me this way, Friend?

The truth hurts sometimes, Michael.

I am hardly inept at Science. And you wish the latter is probably in vain. Like I told you: time will tell.

Michael

You can protest all you like, but it is obvious that you are inept at most things including science. It is inept people like you who tend to adopt the same sort of theological beliefs you have. Rather than having the courage to address your errors, you seek to hide them in claims of faith in God. I think that people like you are putting up a facade, as you have a very tenuous grip on reality. And to compensate you fall right into more non sense to run from your own ineptitude.

 

[rstrats]

MichaelCadry,
re: "...you don't believe in...the Immaculate Conception..."

Are you sure you mean the immaculate conception and not the virgin birth?

 

[DavisBJ]

In Heaven, if you get eternal life with God, you get to explore the other planets and the Universe, and the galaxy, etc. You move tons faster (fly) because you have no earthly body (legs) to hinder your movement. You can fly nearly as fast as the speed of light.

Michael

Dear Michael,

Again you provide a superb example of your infantile understanding of science. The nearest major galaxy to ours is the Andromeda Galaxy, at a distance of over 2 million light years away. In the realm of astronomy, that means the Andromeda Galaxy is equivalent to your next-door neighbor in Phoenix. Almost every other galaxy is farther away, most are much much farther. Assume as a spirit I find I need a cup of sugar, and I decide to jog over to the neighboring Andromeda Galaxy to borrow a cup. I’ll hurry right back, but you shouldn’t wait up for me, since at a full spiritual speed it will only take me about 5 million years to get there and back.

Come on, Michael, quit embarrassing yourself.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I manually reset my own mistake-o-meter™ every morning. :doh:

Let's just say that Michael seems to like a bit of drama in his life and be at the centre of it.

Dear alwight,

I don't like a bit of drama in my life and I don't want to be at the center of it. I am not a very good candidate for this because I used to hate going in front of people to speak publicly. I'm kind of shy to be honest. God put me in the middle of this and it's really be rough, but it has been a blessing too. Still, I never got to have the normal, typical American dream, and I guess I'm still glad that God called upon me to be a witness to His people. I wouldn't change it for anything, especially now that one chapter is almost done. I don't want fame or fortune, or I would not be giving my book Free to others, nor would I be so scared to go behind a camera and try to speak to others. I tried it and was terribly nervous both times. I've had ABC-TV come to my house to try to film me, but for now, I'll leave it at that. I don't want to go into it all now because it is a long story. For now, alwight, consider that maybe there is more going on 'behind the scenes' than you know about.

How come you can all make mistakes and I can't make one? It doesn't seem fair at all. The mistake I made will not influence the outcome of what results from the whole situation one iota. DavisBJ is just trying to milk it for what it's worth, and now, noguru. I'm certainly not dumb!!

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Taken from Bill Nye "The Science Guy"

Dear All,

Bill Nye "The Science Guy" assures us that the particular fossils found in the successive layers of sediments, wherever they are found around the earth, do not appear in the previous or later sediment layers. If this is true, none of those particular life forms, unique only to those sediment layers, evolved at all, but were destroyed when that period ended.

So, if evolution did occur to those species, it must have occurred during the very brief period between those time frames, for which there is no fossil evidence. And the change would have been quite drastic.

Or, if evolution did occur during the forming of those layers, the evolved species within all perished when that period abruptly ended, thus interrupting the whole evolutionary process.

So, if everything perished in the previous layer, what was left to evolve in succeeding layers?

Michael

I doubt that was actually taken from Bill Nye at all. Starting with the third line (Bill Nye "The Science Guy" assures us…) it is a verbatim copy of an opening post found at ChristianForums. If you follow that thread, you soon find that this is a distorted rewording of what Bill Nye actually said. Michael, you have provided us with one more example of Creationist dishonesty.

 

[M. A. Williams]

Hi Michael,

I can't reply on your profile for another few days when I get registered plus, I think.

I was going to buy membership to expedite the process but I'm on a student's lifestyle, so that isn't going to happen lol.

Anyway, I have my final two assignments due within the next 5 weeks (One is due in two days) so I am a bit swamped. Hopefully from the 31st I'll have more time to get down to it and start posting some longer posts that require the time I don't currently have.

Looking forward to it!

 

[MichaelCadry]

I will only go by what the facts and evidence seems to suggest Michael, you however have apparently pre-concluded that "God" supplies all the answers you need regardless of facts and evidence.

As mentioned in my post to 6days some scientists (not many) are also creationists who will even deny their own science should it conflict with a literal Genesis.
The fact that some scientists are also creationists or frauds does not seriously affect the direction that peer reviewed scientific consensus goes. Both examples you mentioned are often trotted out by creationists but to suggest that all of science is false because of a few cases of individual fraud is nonsense. The Piltdown man example was shown to be wrong by science itself, not sceptics or creationists. Peer reviewed science will correct itself by the efforts of its more honest contributors.
As for "Lucy" perhaps you will explain to me in what way it is lying or a fraud and I will see if what you say seems right or wrong to me?
As far as I'm aware "Lucy" still remains good, properly evidenced and genuine science. If some of the speculation has since been has been jumped on by creationists then I can't help that, only try to answer what they say.


Ancient scrolls are only evidence that ancient people wrote words in ancient times. Their only evidential value is for their antiquity and anthropology context, they aren't somehow magical and evidence of a supernatural.


Yes I understand where you live Michael, but just as Sarah Palin could see Russia from Alaska it didn't give her any special insight into Russians.
My understanding is that geologists can usually match-date the geological column to different ages all around the world. It shows many different ages and many different events, but it doesn't show a simultaneous creation nor a Global flood. You should not imo try to saddle your God with YEC nonsense.
If your God exists then He has shown you His wondrous creation in all the splendid physical evidence, not in ancient contrived scriptures written by men.

OK Michael, I will take this as far as you want to take it, but remember it's about what you say you believe not an attack on you personally.

Dear Alwight,

No, I do not want to debate you. You are too close of a friend for me to lose you to a bad discussion. Words can cut like a knife, especially those with no limits.

Hey Alwight, you said those scientists made a couple mistakes, but that didn't mean that everything else in science is not true.

I am in the same situation. For making one or two mistakes, they are throwing out the whole set of dishes because two of them broke. It is ridiculous. I made a mistake in God's Creation story, and also one about food that people are allowed to eat. For instance, God does not want us to eat any pigs or hogs, or wart-hogs, etc., plus any marine life that does not have a fin. That includes crab legs, clams, oysters, squid, octopus, etc. I am taking the plunge and eliminating these foods from my diet. I learned it from something that 'rstrats' mentioned. So that is what is going on.

Al, I am just a normal senior man who has some extraordinary things happen to him in his lifetime. If it were one thing or two, it could be a delusion, it would pan out. But I've been through so many experiences, that there is no way they cannot be true. And I have proof that God is with me. Also, didn't they put part-wooden parts in Lucy to make a complete skeleton of her? Okay, will get going!! In a Bit.

Cheerio, Mate,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Has the "gap theory" been discussed? A site search came back negative but that's not always reliable.

I don't know a lot about the 'gap theory', to be honest rstrats. I can't help you there. And no, I can look it up if I need to know more. What do you mean that a site search came back negative?

Hey, I've got to hand it to you on that blunder about 6days and I. I was quite surprised. You do know it means those animals with cloven hooves. Well, we are also not to eat any aquatic life that does not have a fin? Now Lobsters and shrimp have fins, but crabs don't, so don't count on crab legs any more. Or scallops, clams and oysters, or squid, or turtle soup, etc. Do you have any of those rstrats? Maybe we've both made the same mistake.

God Be With You, Tiger!!

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

… Hey, I've got to hand it to you on that blunder about 6days and I. I was quite surprised. You do know it means those animals with cloven hooves. Well, we are also not to eat any aquatic life that does not have a fin? Now Lobsters and shrimp have fins, but crabs don't, so don't count on crab legs any more. Or scallops, clams and oysters, or squid, or turtle soup, etc. …

Michael

Dear Michael,

I haven’t seen that 6days has bought into your new dietary rules. Has he indicated to you that he agrees with these new rules?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Joel,

If you present rational arguments for your position, then you will be a welcome addition to the conversation.

But this is already a very long thread, and I suspect you have not had time to acquaint yourself with many of the more relevant ideas that have come to light. It should be of particular interest for you to be aware of some very unique beliefs held by Michael Cadry, the thread originator (whom you have already exchanged pleasantries with.)

In his opening post (and periodically since) Mr. Cadry links to a small booklet he has published, and which is available online. Within that book, Mr. Cadry asserts:

Hiccups are the way in which God gives His Spirit to people by putting it into them, sometimes forcefully. The diaphragm spasms as this is happening, but that is not just air going into your left ear. I have found this to be true by my own experience. You’ll find out soon enough, so you don’t have to believe me now. Also, this is not the same as having the Holy Spirit descend on you.

​

Now I must mention something written of in Revelation, chapter 12. I know most of you won’t believe this, but you’ll need to know it for later. The scripture speaks of a woman. The woman was my mother. She has passed away and gone to be with God recently. In Revelation 12:15, it says that the serpent (Satan) cast out a flood of water after the woman (symbolism, figure of speech), that she might be overcome by it. This was my mother’s battle with beer and alcohol.

​

The only ones for sure who are written to go to the lake of fire are Lucifer, the beast, the antichrist, the false prophet, and Satan, and possibly the 666 who are deceived by Uri Geller (the antichrist) and Jean-Pierre Girard, the false prophet.

​

… a woman from Hollywood named Betty Hutton. It said she was a movie actress from past days, and that she’d been married many times and made lots of money…. a voice again spoke from the air above me, exactly as I’d heard the first angel speak to me. “Babylon is fallen, is fallen,” he said. I didn’t really understand what it all meant initially, but I knew it had something to do with this woman. … God’s spirit helped me to understand what I’d heard and what it meant … It concerned … the Old Testament (Please see Hosea 2:16) about a woman who had many husbands and riches, but would lose them both.

​

I had an out-of-body experience and was in a hospital room. I saw ex-singer-songwriter Cat Stevens (a.k.a. Yusuf Islam) lying near death in a hospital bed with tuberculosis. Then I listened as God spoke to him from a corner near the ceiling of the room and told him that he would live and would sing new songs. I understood that Cat was made aware of the fact that God really existed and that the latter days were upon us.

​

Michael is planning on being killed (late this year?), and his body will lie in the street for a few days:

The Lord told me I am one of two witnesses and one of two olive branches who would come before the second coming and give pertinent information to others on earth. This is so everyone won’t have to experience to the letter, everything I’ve had to suffer through and learn. This way others can read about what I had to learn in 40 years instead. (See Rev. 11:3).

​

I do know what I’m talking about because it’s not my interpretation, but was given to me by the Lord directly and also through a number of angelic visits and certain visions.

​

I was told by an angel that a great earthquake in Phoenix, Arizona must first happen after the two witnesses ascension or resurrection. It will be the greatest earthquake since man has been on earth. Another earthquake, in Hollywood, California will follow the Phoenix earthquake

​

Jesus’ heavenly body will be Venus

​

Satan is but a man who fell from God’s graces during a race of men and women before our own Adam and Eve. Lucifer (now an evil spirit who was once an angel of God) misled Satan (while he was previously a man on earth before our own Adam and Eve) against God. He just uses talking telepathically to sway you from God.

​

When Michael started this thread 2 years ago, he fiercely defended his belief that God had populated the earth with people and then wiped them out again and again, before Biblical Adam was formed (you still see a remnant of that belief in the excerpt from his book above about the origin of Satan). About 1 year ago in this thread he vacillated between old-earth and young earth beliefs, before finally jettisoning (most) of his old-earth ideas (this required a revision to his on-line book to eradicate the mention of old-earth ideas there as well). Interestingly, prior to jettisoning his old-earth beliefs, on a number of occasions he defended his old earth beliefs with statements like:







Note in the above explanations that Michael authored his rationale for his old-earth beliefs comes from what he says was divinely endowed knowledge. You judge how sincere he was when shortly after he turns against his self-avowed divine instructions and jumps over into the YEC camp. You think Michael is the sort of reliable teammate you can rely on?

A final note. According to Mr. Cadry, your tenure at TOL will probably be rather brief. This is because he has asserted numerous times that he feels certain that the rapture will occur late this year.

Dear BJ,

Yes, I still am unsure about these OEC or YEC beliefs. YEC is more new to me, but there is also the chance that I was right all along believing the way I did before 6days told me otherwise. Who knows? God knows that it doesn't amount to a hill a beans either way. The crux of my message is that Jesus is Returning soon. Also, to help out those who need help, if you can. I'm really tired of going through this, so I will end my reply now. I believe in a forgiving God, which you don't believe in any God at all. I am getting the main point of my message through to others in this world. To love each other and help each other. That is my main message. So any other mistakes are basically trivial. There's many who have to go through all of it without reading my book. They will fare just fine.

That's All, Mr. BJ,

 

[M. A. Williams]

Hello DavisBJ,

I'm still trying to acquaint myself with the software. Sometimes it isn't so easy keeping track, especially in a thread this large

Look forward to discussion with you.

 

[MichaelCadry]

It was July 12. If no good rep pts, then can you give me bad ones? Anything to show you are thinking about me? Pretty please?

Mr. BJ,

I don't give out bad neg reps.

Michael

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I don't like a bit of drama in my life and I don't want to be at the center of it. I am not a very good candidate for this because I used to hate going in front of people to speak publicly. I'm kind of shy to be honest. God put me in the middle of this and it's really be rough, but it has been a blessing too. Still, I never got to have the normal, typical American dream, and I guess I'm still glad that God called upon me to be a witness to His people.

Michael, don't you think that if God really had wanted messages transmitted to humanity that it could have been done rather more effectively than entrusting it to you?
It seems to me that it's you who has put yourself in the middle of a fantasy scenario of your own choosing, or how exactly was this thrust on you, angels?
Angels that only you have seen?
What exactly have you "witnessed" that cannot be said by the less trusting to simply be very bald and empty assertions derived only from inside your head?

I wouldn't change it for anything, especially now that one chapter is almost done. I don't want fame or fortune, or I would not be giving my book Free to others, nor would I be so scared to go behind a camera and try to speak to others. I tried it and was terribly nervous both times. I've had ABC-TV come to my house to try to film me, but for now, I'll leave it at that. I don't want to go into it all now because it is a long story. For now, alwight, consider that maybe there is more going on 'behind the scenes' than you know about.

Michael works in mysterious ways?

How come you can all make mistakes and I can't make one? It doesn't seem fair at all. The mistake I made will not influence the outcome of what results from the whole situation one iota. DavisBJ is just trying to milk it for what it's worth, and now, noguru. I'm certainly not dumb!!

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

You used to tell us iirc that the Moon was Jesus/God's throne from where He looks down on us, and that the eternal lake of fire was actually at the centre of the Earth, or was it the sun?
Could you not be mistaken?

 

[M. A. Williams]

Hi Michael,

I was curious about this;

Yes, I still am unsure about these OEC or YEC beliefs.

Is it possible you could outline your difficulties in determining a position?

Would it be the 'maturity' or appearance of age?

 

[rstrats]

MichaelCadry,
re: "What do you mean that a site search came back negative?"

I did a search of this topic and received the reply that nothing was found.



re: "You do know it means those animals with cloven hooves."

Actually, Leviticus says the clean animals are those who have cloven hooves and who chew the cud. Both those characteristics need to present in order for the animal to be considered clean.



re: "...we are also not to eat any aquatic life that does not have a fin?"


The answer is yes, if the animal also doesn't have true scales. Leviticus 11:9-10: "These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers; that you may eat. But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you."



re: "Do you have any of those rstrats?"

I do not knowingly eat any of the animals that are classified as unclean.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, the article about ancient scrolls you put in a recent post shows that science is useful in a variety of ways. It is not restricted to laboratories, nor to secular needs. It simply works, by whoever employs it properly. But you seem to be once again saying this shows that science “goes to the Bible” for help. In fact the opposite is true. It was the theologians and archaeologists who turned to science asking for its help. Nowhere in the article does it say, or even imply that science relied in any way on the Bible, or on what was found in the scrolls. The science used in reading the scrolls depended in no way on knowledge found in any sacred text.

There was sacred text on the scrolls. That is why science wanted to read the scrolls. It doesn't matter which type of science was used, but that science was used to authenticate and read the scrolls. So science does rely on holy scriptures at times, which is what I meant all along. Evidently, I did not explain it well enough earlier. I must use simpler language. God told me to use small words to write my book, something that anyone would be able to understand. Which Branch of Science used to read the scrolls is still Science. Do you understand?

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I am not aware that we know who perpetrated the fraud known as Piltdown man. Do you? Some scientists were probably remiss in not detecting the fraud earlier than they did, but the deception was against the scientific community, not by science. It is far more likely that someone like you, with a pathological hatred of the success that science has had when compared with religion, who was the one that perpetrated the deception.

Scientific community / Science, whoever. Same thing the way I see it. It certainly was not me who perpetrated a fraud. And I don't have a pathological hatred of science. Why would you say that. I love science. I just don't believe in Evolution. That is all.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Joel,

If you present rational arguments for your position, then you will be a welcome addition to the conversation.

But this is already a very long thread, and I suspect you have not had time to acquaint yourself with many of the more relevant ideas that have come to light. It should be of particular interest for you to be aware of some very unique beliefs held by Michael Cadry, the thread originator (whom you have already exchanged pleasantries with.)

In his opening post (and periodically since) Mr. Cadry links to a small booklet he has published, and which is available online. Within that book, Mr. Cadry asserts:

Hiccups are the way in which God gives His Spirit to people by putting it into them, sometimes forcefully. The diaphragm spasms as this is happening, but that is not just air going into your left ear. I have found this to be true by my own experience. You’ll find out soon enough, so you don’t have to believe me now. Also, this is not the same as having the Holy Spirit descend on you.

​

Now I must mention something written of in Revelation, chapter 12. I know most of you won’t believe this, but you’ll need to know it for later. The scripture speaks of a woman. The woman was my mother. She has passed away and gone to be with God recently. In Revelation 12:15, it says that the serpent (Satan) cast out a flood of water after the woman (symbolism, figure of speech), that she might be overcome by it. This was my mother’s battle with beer and alcohol.

​

The only ones for sure who are written to go to the lake of fire are Lucifer, the beast, the antichrist, the false prophet, and Satan, and possibly the 666 who are deceived by Uri Geller (the antichrist) and Jean-Pierre Girard, the false prophet.

​

… a woman from Hollywood named Betty Hutton. It said she was a movie actress from past days, and that she’d been married many times and made lots of money…. a voice again spoke from the air above me, exactly as I’d heard the first angel speak to me. “Babylon is fallen, is fallen,” he said. I didn’t really understand what it all meant initially, but I knew it had something to do with this woman. … God’s spirit helped me to understand what I’d heard and what it meant … It concerned … the Old Testament (Please see Hosea 2:16) about a woman who had many husbands and riches, but would lose them both.

​

I had an out-of-body experience and was in a hospital room. I saw ex-singer-songwriter Cat Stevens (a.k.a. Yusuf Islam) lying near death in a hospital bed with tuberculosis. Then I listened as God spoke to him from a corner near the ceiling of the room and told him that he would live and would sing new songs. I understood that Cat was made aware of the fact that God really existed and that the latter days were upon us.

​

Michael is planning on being killed (late this year?), and his body will lie in the street for a few days:

The Lord told me I am one of two witnesses and one of two olive branches who would come before the second coming and give pertinent information to others on earth. This is so everyone won’t have to experience to the letter, everything I’ve had to suffer through and learn. This way others can read about what I had to learn in 40 years instead. (See Rev. 11:3).

​

I do know what I’m talking about because it’s not my interpretation, but was given to me by the Lord directly and also through a number of angelic visits and certain visions.

​

I was told by an angel that a great earthquake in Phoenix, Arizona must first happen after the two witnesses ascension or resurrection. It will be the greatest earthquake since man has been on earth. Another earthquake, in Hollywood, California will follow the Phoenix earthquake

​

Jesus’ heavenly body will be Venus

​

Satan is but a man who fell from God’s graces during a race of men and women before our own Adam and Eve. Lucifer (now an evil spirit who was once an angel of God) misled Satan (while he was previously a man on earth before our own Adam and Eve) against God. He just uses talking telepathically to sway you from God.

​

When Michael started this thread 2 years ago, he fiercely defended his belief that God had populated the earth with people and then wiped them out again and again, before Biblical Adam was formed (you still see a remnant of that belief in the excerpt from his book above about the origin of Satan). About 1 year ago in this thread he vacillated between old-earth and young earth beliefs, before finally jettisoning (most) of his old-earth ideas (this required a revision to his on-line book to eradicate the mention of old-earth ideas there as well). Interestingly, prior to jettisoning his old-earth beliefs, on a number of occasions he defended his old earth beliefs with statements like:







Note in the above explanations that Michael authored his rationale for his old-earth beliefs comes from what he says was divinely endowed knowledge. You judge how sincere he was when shortly after he turns against his self-avowed divine instructions and jumps over into the YEC camp. You think Michael is the sort of reliable teammate you can rely on?

A final note. According to Mr. Cadry, your tenure at TOL will probably be rather brief. This is because he has asserted numerous times that he feels certain that the rapture will occur late this year.

B.J.,

My 'booklet' is 88 pages long!! It's a paperback, in simple terms, so that most anyone who reads it can understand it. That is how I was told to write it, so I did. It's short and to the point. It takes maybe a couple days to read, unless you really like reading.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

It was July 12. If no good rep pts, then can you give me bad ones? Anything to show you are thinking about me? Pretty please?

Dear Mr. BJ,

July 12 to July 28 is NOT a week. I thought so.

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear BJ,

Yes, I still am unsure about these OEC or YEC beliefs. YEC is more new to me, but there is also the chance that I was right all along believing the way I did before 6days told me otherwise. Who knows? …

That's All, Mr. BJ,

Thank you, Michael, for the refreshing honesty. In return, I have decided that after this post, I will undertake a self-imposed hiatus from this thread for a couple of weeks. I do it because I fear this exchange is getting too close to a “you are bullying me” type of situation, where your stance is shown to be idiotic again and again. When your personal perception of reality keeps getting demolished, then what is left? Rather than force you into that corner, I will leave you alone for at least a while. Later, if you are still engaging in obnoxious dishonesty, then I may revaluate my position.

I conclude by pointing out once again how easily you declare God has answered you, only to show that answer was just hot air. Less than one week ago, you declared:

BJ,
…
I prayed to God today and He sent me a sign that I was wrong believing that there were men before our own Adam. I've prayed to Him before about it also. I was errant in my prior belief. So I made a mistake.

Michael

Look at how meaningful that answer to prayer must have been in light of what you just posted.

Your vacation from DavisBJ commences now.