Creation vs. Evolution

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

I've read all that you've written and I still don't believe any of it. I don't believe an ancestor of humans was also an ancestor of chimps. That's the least of what you wrote to me. I know you're trying to convince me, but you must realize, I come from a God Who says something different. But you can think or feel how you like. That is fine with me. I care about you regardless. Maybe I will see things your way in the future. I will answer The Barbarian when I get back on TOL. Will chat later.

Michael

:rapture:

:think:

I think I can support anything I've said above with evidence Michael. If you don't think so then by all means point it out.
Evidence does not support creationism is all I'm saying, but notice that I've never even attempted to persuade you that your God doesn't exist, because I don't want to do that even if I could, which I can't.

 

[6days]

Evidence does not support creationism is all I'm saying, but notice that I've never even attempted to persuade you that your God doesn't exist, because I don't want to do that even if I could, which I can't.

Scientific evidence clearly supports the Biblical creation by God. Scientific evidence tells us that life does not come from life....that order and beauty do not come from big bangs...that genetic burden is real, and we are not evolving into anything more fit....etc.

Digger Dog ...Childrens magazine explains...
"The Bible and true science support each other perfectly (as this issue of Discovery teaches). In the very first chapter of the Bible we learn that living things produce after their own kind (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). Tomato plants produce tomatoes. Lions give birth to baby lions. Humans give birth to humans. This is exactly what true science shows. In fact, the scientific Law of Biogenesis says that all physical life comes from previous life of its own kind. Evolution, on the other hand, teaches the opposite. It says that over millions of years life can (and supposedly did) evolve into different kinds of life. This is just one example of where the Bible is more scientific than evolution.

Although the Bible is not strictly a science book, we can be confident that whenever it deals with a scientific subject, it is accurate. Remember: “The Lord made the heavens and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” (Exodus 20:11). He is the Supreme Scientist, not man."

 

[Jonahdog]

Scientific evidence clearly supports the Biblical creation by God. Scientific evidence tells us that life does not come from life....that order and beauty do not come from big bangs...that genetic burden is real, and we are not evolving into anything more fit....etc.

Digger Dog ...Childrens magazine explains...
"The Bible and true science support each other perfectly (as this issue of Discovery teaches). In the very first chapter of the Bible we learn that living things produce after their own kind (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). Tomato plants produce tomatoes. Lions give birth to baby lions. Humans give birth to humans. This is exactly what true science shows. In fact, the scientific Law of Biogenesis says that all physical life comes from previous life of its own kind. Evolution, on the other hand, teaches the opposite. It says that over millions of years life can (and supposedly did) evolve into different kinds of life. This is just one example of where the Bible is more scientific than evolution.

Although the Bible is not strictly a science book, we can be confident that whenever it deals with a scientific subject, it is accurate. Remember: “The Lord made the heavens and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” (Exodus 20:11). He is the Supreme Scientist, not man."

Digger Dog? Really? Really? That's what you got? Could you be more embarrassing to your position?

 

[The Barbarian]

Moreover, the Bible does not say that living things reproduce according to their kind. Biblical creation and creationism are at odds on this and other important points.

 

[6days]

Digger Dog? Really? Really? That's what you got? Could you be more embarrassing to your position?

Digger dog is much cuter than most theologians and scientists.
In any case... Attacking Digger Dog, instead of what he says is ad hominem fallacy... usually an indication of "is that all you got"

 

[The Barbarian]

Besides, Digger Dog is more rigorous in their scientific standards than any creationist journal.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Alwight,

We have an extraordinary world/Earth to live in. A moon is near, which controls our waters/oceans to keep the tides flowing and clean the sea. By 'gravity' (God) they draws and hook the water's waves over and over. How can you think that that is just a happenstance? You can't be that way, can you? It takes a DIVINE GENIUS to do all that's been done here in our universe and Earth. I've got to get going for a while, maybe the whole nite. I will talk with you again soon, chap!!

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

We have an extraordinary world/Earth to live in. A moon is near, which controls our waters/oceans to keep the tides flowing and clean the sea. By 'gravity' (God) they draws and hook the water's waves over and over. How can you think that that is just a happenstance? You can't be that way, can you? It takes a DIVINE GENIUS to do all that's been done here in our universe and Earth. I've got to get going for a while, maybe the whole nite. I will talk with you again soon, chap!!

I don't claim to know that God doesn't exist Michael but I do tend to believe what I think is reasonable to believe from the available evidence.
If you think that some things like ocean tides are evidence of God then why aren't tsunamis and earthquakes evidence of the opposite?

In a vast and overwhelmingly life-hostile universe like this one it doesn't seem all that much to me to expect that, just somewhere in it, a tiny speck like Earth just happens to exist where life can exist. I believe we are here simply because we can be here.
We still need to put up with tsunamis and earthquakes of course because this is nevertheless a natural world that has no interest in our welfare.

 

[TracerBullet]

Scientific evidence clearly supports the Biblical creation by God.

this is true only if you completely ignore science

Scientific evidence tells us that life does not come from life....

:think:

that order and beauty do not come from big bangs...

You don't think the universe is orderly?

that genetic burden is real,

so is an optimal genotype...wait, no ... there is no such thing

and we are not evolving into anything more fit....etc.

Define fit

 

[The Barbarian]

"Fit" means well-adapted to a particular environment. Hence, Tibetans, over the last few thousand years, became more fit to live at high altitudes. Europeans became more fit to survive exposure to bubonic plague.

And so on.

 

[MichaelCadry]

"Fit" means well-adapted to a particular environment. Hence, Tibetans, over the last few thousand years, became more fit to live at high altitudes. Europeans became more fit to survive exposure to bubonic plague.

And so on.

Dear The Barbarian,

Neither makes a new species. We're men and women, and we'll remain men and women. There will be no new species of men and women unless you count us being servants of God in His Heaven/Universe. As servants, we will be trained to help other people with their 'sins', how to live their lives, how to make their meals, etc. We will be helping the angels. It says we shall reign with Christ for 1,000 years, that is, those who make it to Heaven this time around.

Our energy may leave our earthly bodies without a source to keep a heartbeat or lungs breathing, but we will still live on as spirits. I KNOW Jesus is returning extremely soon, but you don't. Do you even believe He exists, Barbarian. Aren't you Catholic??

May God Bless Your Soul,

Michael

:sigh:

:shut:

P.S. Will be back in less than an hour. I will reply to Alwight and those who've posted here.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Barbarian,

Please give me like a little over an hour and I will come back again and reply to everyone's concerns. Something came up. Back in a bit! Thanks!!

Michael

 

[Jonahdog]

Digger dog is much cuter than most theologians and scientists.
In any case... Attacking Digger Dog, instead of what he says is ad hominem fallacy... usually an indication of "is that all you got"

No that was not a negative comment about Digger Dog but rather an negative comment toward someone who uses a child's inaccurate story book to suggest science truth.

 

[The Barbarian]

Neither makes a new species.

Most of the time, evolution doesn't make new species. It usually makes existing species more fit. Now and again, you get reproductive isolation and an new species results. Even creationists like those at Answers in Genesis and Institute for Creation Research admit to speciation.

Our energy may leave our earthly bodies without a source to keep a heartbeat or lungs breathing, but we will still live on as spirits. I KNOW Jesus is returning extremely soon, but you don't.

God says no one will know that. So it's you or God I can believe. Sorry about that.

Do you even believe He exists, Barbarian.

How could He tell me that, if He didn't exist?

Aren't you Catholic??

Yep. God's blessing and healing be upon you.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I don't claim to know that God doesn't exist Michael but I do tend to believe what I think is reasonable to believe from the available evidence.
If you think that some things like ocean tides are evidence of God then why aren't tsunamis and earthquakes evidence of the opposite?

Oh Alwight, I didn't know you didn't know. Our ocean tides work because God makes them work by having a moon circle us, causing a friction-like moving of the waves, and this is gravity that keeps our moon close to us all of the time. It really is quite intricate.

In a vast and overwhelmingly life-hostile universe like this one it doesn't seem all that much to me to expect that, just somewhere in it, a tiny speck like Earth just happens to exist where life can exist. I believe we are here simply because we can be here.
We still need to put up with tsunamis and earthquakes of course because this is nevertheless a natural world that has no interest in our welfare.

What I am positive of is that God is in direct charge of each tsunami and earthquake, hurricane, and volcanic eruption, snow, rain, hail, etc. These are all done by the Lord God. Even frost, dew, tornadoes. There is NO MOTHER NATURE! God clobbers us with these 'plagues' so we will turn to Him. In the meantime, He also does it for reasons (to rain on plants and trees, etc.), landslides, His lightning, and wind, and thunder: all are of Him. There is no Mother Goose (pun intended). God has storms on some other planets too, so He can fully vent His anger without killing millions on Earth. Storms zap and trouble the devil. He is scared to death of them, for he knows they are from God's Wrath. Again, if you don't believe any of this, take it up with Him when you finally face Him after you die.
Why do you think we have RECORD-BREAKING weather? It is God's way of telling us that He is there and He is FED UP with everyone's actions and beliefs. You'll find out I'm telling the truth soon enough.

Now God loves us too very much!! But some of us down here act worse that the Pharaoh of Egypt, or Hitler, etc. He really is not happy with it. But God has so very much love for us inside that even some of your worst sins, He forgives. He knows we are only human. That does not mean go kill someone, because you'll be hot water then. Hot something anyway! OK, will close for now.

Many Blessings,

Michael

:sigh:

:jawdrop:

:shut:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Scientific evidence clearly supports the Biblical creation by God. Scientific evidence tells us that life does not come from life....that order and beauty do not come from big bangs...that genetic burden is real, and we are not evolving into anything more fit....etc.

Digger Dog ...Childrens magazine explains...
"The Bible and true science support each other perfectly (as this issue of Discovery teaches). In the very first chapter of the Bible we learn that living things produce after their own kind (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). Tomato plants produce tomatoes. Lions give birth to baby lions. Humans give birth to humans. This is exactly what true science shows. In fact, the scientific Law of Biogenesis says that all physical life comes from previous life of its own kind. Evolution, on the other hand, teaches the opposite. It says that over millions of years life can (and supposedly did) evolve into different kinds of life. This is just one example of where the Bible is more scientific than evolution.

Although the Bible is not strictly a science book, we can be confident that whenever it deals with a scientific subject, it is accurate. Remember: “The Lord made the heavens and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” (Exodus 20:11). He is the Supreme Scientist, not man."

Dear 6days,

Well, we find someone who knows what he's talking about. It's good to get some new insight and comments to what is being said here. I'm so thankful for your knowledge and wisdom on this subject, 6days. I couldn't ask for more!!

:sigh: :jawdrop: :shut:

 

[MichaelCadry]

I don't claim to know that God doesn't exist Michael but I do tend to believe what I think is reasonable to believe from the available evidence.
If you think that some things like ocean tides are evidence of God then why aren't tsunamis and earthquakes evidence of the opposite?

In a vast and overwhelmingly life-hostile universe like this one it doesn't seem all that much to me to expect that, just somewhere in it, a tiny speck like Earth just happens to exist where life can exist. I believe we are here simply because we can be here.
We still need to put up with tsunamis and earthquakes of course because this is nevertheless a natural world that has no interest in our welfare.

Dear Alwight,

Hey Chap!! How are you doing, Alwight? Hey, I'm wondering why we cannot I.D. this ancestor that the chimps and us men are descended from. Sounds so strange that we wouldn't know such an important fact, considering all that we know in science and the Bible already. Why don't we see this unknown ancestor appear anywhere in the Earth, in it's past or future? Why isn't it in the Bible or anywhere, for that matter. Just in your cultist evolution magazines? Science Journal? Where's your proof of it? Are you hoping that it is Homo rudolphensis? Do you suggest that apes are the chimps' and man's extinct ancestor? I don't usually entertain such discussions and I am glad. When God wants me to know, Him or Jesus will tell me all the details of the whole story. For now, my brain doesn't need to be strained by what this is true, or no, that is true, or no, we were wrong, etc. Too taxing on a Christian to wonder about so much trash. We are Christians. We will find out sooner than later. Much likely, before any other that you know.

Michael

:jawdrop:

:sigh:

:shut:

 

[alwight]

Oh Alwight, I didn't know you didn't know. Our ocean tides work because God makes them work by having a moon circle us, causing a friction-like moving of the waves, and this is gravity that keeps our moon close to us all of the time. It really is quite intricate.

What I don't know is that any god consciously arranged anything Michael.
High and low tides are caused by the sea bulging toward the moon's gravitational pull as it passes by or is on the other side of the world

What I am positive of is that God is in direct charge of each tsunami and earthquake, hurricane, and volcanic eruption, snow, rain, hail, etc. These are all done by the Lord God. Even frost, dew, tornadoes. There is NO MOTHER NATURE! God clobbers us with these 'plagues' so we will turn to Him. In the meantime, He also does it for reasons (to rain on plants and trees, etc.), landslides, His lightning, and wind, and thunder: all are of Him. There is no Mother Goose (pun intended). God has storms on some other planets too, so He can fully vent His anger without killing millions on Earth. Storms zap and trouble the devil. He is scared to death of them, for he knows they are from God's Wrath. Again, if you don't believe any of this, take it up with Him when you finally face Him after you die.

Everything you've said above can be rather more rationally explained by a natural world having natural events going on for perfectly explainable physical reasons, just like other planets do without any life for God to be angry with.
Ignorance, in the past, caused ancient people to dream up fanciful explanations involving whichever gods they thought were in control of the elements, however most of us have moved on since then Michael.

Why do you think we have RECORD-BREAKING weather? It is God's way of telling us that He is there and He is FED UP with everyone's actions and beliefs. You'll find out I'm telling the truth soon enough.

It's actually because of greenhouse gases and the burning of fossil fuel Michael.

Now God loves us too very much!! But some of us down here act worse that the Pharaoh of Egypt, or Hitler, etc. He really is not happy with it. But God has so very much love for us inside that even some of your worst sins, He forgives. He knows we are only human. That does not mean go kill someone, because you'll be hot water then. Hot something anyway! OK, will close for now.

Many Blessings,

Michael

:sigh:

:jawdrop:

:shut:

Yes I get it Michael, I'm so doomed right?

God can apparently cause major events and disasters to occur because people aren't doing what He wants, but for some reason doesn't want to make it clear that He even exists, except to the likes of you of course. :liberals:

To my mind Michael you seem to have all the scientific understanding and religiously inspired thinking of the middle ages going on in your head.
:juggle:

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

Barbarian observes:
Even a 6th grade science students knows that's stupid and contrary to evolutionary theory. Populations evolve, not individuals. And of course, chimps are evolved in a different direction than humans from a common ancestor. So they wouldn't evolve into us.



Well, let's take a look...

Michael "explains" evolution:


Nope. By definition, evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population over time.

Evolution, also known as descent with modification, is the change in heritable phenotype traits of biological populations over successive generations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

National Academy of Science:
Evolution consists of changes in the heritable traits of a population of organisms as successive generations replace one another. It is populations of organisms that evolve, not individual organisms.
http://www.nas.edu/evolution/Definitions.html



Surprise. Did you really believe you knew what evolution is?


Barbarian explains why Neandertals wouldn't become Australopithecines:
For one thing, too big. Another, no forests to speak of in ice age Europe. Depending on fruit for much of the year would have been impossible. You've confused orthogenesis (which rarely happens, if at all) with evolution as it is.



Not much vegetation to be found in Ice Age Europe, in the winter.

Barbarian observes:
For example, in the past several thousand years, Tibetans have evolved a series of adaptations for living at high altitudes.





Genetics and linguistics. The Tibetans are genetically very close to the western Chinese from whom they split off a few thousand years ago, and they speak related languages. They differ mainly in a number of mutations that allow them to live at high altitudes.



Doesn't matter. Reality isn't obliged to meet your needs.



There was writing older than a few thousand years ago.



As you're learning, He used evolution.



Dumber than dirt.



Being Christian, I just accept the way He did it.



Since God says that He is truth, your notion that he'd fake evidence to fool people is completely unChristian. It's that old "do you love God enough to believe something completely untrue?" test.

More later.

What a bunch of...Populations evolve, not individuals. Chimps are evolved in a different direction. Give me a break on this bunk. And who taught you such wonderful 'facts.' Just to suit your assertions, eh? And you talk to me of 'bald' assertions. I'll never agree with such jest.



All of the rest of your piece of work I think is nonsense. I'm not saying God faked evidence to fool people. We know He created man at a teenage or young man's age. He makes no discrepancy about that. It's very clear, and the same for Eve, and the animals and plants, etc. But you are asking me that you aren't faking when you say you don't believe God's story of Creation, so God is faking what happened? God is not faking evidence if He describes the Universe as after it first began, just like with man, animals and plants. He doesn't say a big bang. So who's faking who, Barbarian?? He plainly says that these things were not made as babies, but older. I'm not going to entertain or waste my time with your speculation on life and how it happened according to Darwin and Barbarian. God says nothing in the Bible like what you have to say. If and when God tells me it happened your way, I will believe it. You sound like a new cult emerging.

Sincerely,

Michael

P.S. I found out that you are saying that I am calling God dishonest because I was speaking sarcastically to you about something. God knows what you're up to.

:noway:

:bang:

:angel:

Yeah, Barbie; What Populations have proven to have actually "Evolved Populations" (Speciated)?

Are you Claiming to have Finally found Observable Proof of Speciation; Barbie Girl?

Please, feel free to Clear this Up, Barb; Thanks.


=M=

TPS Reports

Here's another Copy of the "Memo"; There is No Proof that Speciation has Ever Occurred in Nature or in the Fossil Record, and it is a Biological Term which Lacks definition, and has Yet to fully be Properly Defined by Evolutionists.

Given the Fact that Even all the Animals of a "Ring Species", can be Interbred and Produce Offspring; I'd say the Theory of Evolution has Already Been Disproved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation

From Wiki "Speciation" article, Pic of a Theoretical Concept called "Ring Species";

Evolutionist Theorists say that Speciation is supposed to Occur when Individuals from a Given Single Species are Split for a Very Long amount of time; They are then Supposed to Somehow become a "New Species" of Animal.

If Speciation Does Happen in Nature, at a Rather Fast Rate; Why is it that the Lion and Tiger are Still capable of Being Interbred, and Their Offspring has Proven to be Fertile ( Liger )?

Thank You, Thank you; That Question above this Sentence is Exactly how I first Disproved Barbie on his Make-Believe Theory of Evolution which is Based and Driven on an Imaginary Theoretical Process called "Speciation".

And the Lion/Tiger Offspring is Huge!!!

 

[The Barbarian]

If you won't believe me, perhaps your fellow creationists:

As creationists, we must frequently remind detractors that we do not deny that species vary, change, and even appear over time...Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.
https://answersingenesis.org/natural-selection/speciation/

Even your guys have given up on denying the fact of speciation. Time for you to pack it in.