Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Dear patrick jane,

If that's what you wish, then so be it. I am not saying we don't have free will, but God loves us and helps us to choose His Will, even though we could pick the opposite of His Will at any time. It does throw a wrench into the fire though. I've stolen, smoked and had sex in my life. MANY People have done the same things. I've been forgiven my sins though. I stole a box of colored sticky stars when I was younger. I smoked cigs for 40 years and finally was able to quit. It has been a year since I quit since yesterday, Nov. 29. Be sure pj, that I don't live in a fantasy world. That is only Your deduction. I do not sell God short. You will learn more as you grow older or when Jesus Returns, which is very soon. Don't get so upset. Thank you for your well wishes. I wish the same for you and your family also. That's all I will say for now.

God Understands And Won't Forsake You; Do The Same For Him!!

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Dear patrick jane,

If that's what you wish, then so be it. I am not saying we don't have free will, but God loves us and helps us to choose His Will, even though we could pick the opposite of His Will at any time. It does throw a wrench into the fire though. I've stolen, smoked and had sex in my life. MANY People have done the same things. I've been forgiven my sins though. I stole a box of colored sticky stars when I was younger. I smoked cigs for 40 years and finally was able to quit. It has been a year since I quit since yesterday, Nov. 29. Be sure pj, that I don't live in a fantasy world. That is only Your deduction. I do not sell God short. You will learn more as you grow older or when Jesus Returns, which is very soon. Don't get so upset. Thank you for your well wishes. I wish the same for you and your family also. That's all I will say for now.

God Understands And Won't Forsake You; Do The Same For Him!!

Michael

i'm not upset michael, i understand the things you mentioned. i don't know what you mean "if that's the way i wish it". i know you're not in a fantasy world. maybe it's the way you talk down to people a bit and then end each post with a prayer for us. a little insult, a little prayer. i'm 45 going on 75 and i pray for Jesus to return. i wish it was right now. we will all learn more as we grow older and hence, younger, God Willing. love ya mikey ! :wave2:

 

[MichaelCadry]

i'm not upset michael, i understand the things you mentioned. i don't know what you mean "if that's the way i wish it". i know you're not in a fantasy world. maybe it's the way you talk down to people a bit and then end each post with a prayer for us. a little insult, a little prayer. i'm 45 going on 75 and i pray for Jesus to return. i wish it was right now. we will all learn more as we grow older and hence, younger, God Willing. love ya mikey ! :wave2:

Dear patrick jane,

I'm very glad you are not upset. It was looking bad there for awhile. I don't mean to talk down to people. I don't mean to insult anyone by the little bit I close my posts to others with. I'm just that way. I do it for other's sakes, not mine. I really don't know what else to tell you Patrick. No one else has ever given me this feedback before. I am glad that you are looking forward for Jesus to Return because I believe it is very soon. But alas, I do not know the day or hour. Or week or even year. But from what I see and sense, it seems soon.

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Dear patrick jane,

I'm very glad you are not upset. It was looking bad there for awhile. I don't mean to talk down to people. I don't mean to insult anyone by the little bit I close my posts to others with. I'm just that way. I do it for other's sakes, not mine. I really don't know what else to tell you Patrick. No one else has ever given me this feedback before. I am glad that you are looking forward for Jesus to Return because I believe it is very soon. But alas, I do not know the day or hour. Or week or even year. But from what I see and sense, it seems soon.

Michael

:rapture: it does my dear friend, the signs are everywhere. you show much love on tol michael

 

[alwight]

So that would mean that any group is made up of those with a mutated advantage and those who don't. Right?

And if that be so then why would any generation not have a mix of mutants with various traits?

--Dave

Dave, whatever adaptions work to advantage are likely to become part of the species' gene pool. Evolution works on species not individuals.

 

[gcthomas]

Exactly.... Our fine tuned universe is just one of many evidences of a miraculous creation.

Evidence, yes, but not uniquely for divine creation. It is also evidence for chaotic, eternal cosmic inflation. So the existence of fine-tuning does not help you decide which hypothesis is true.

 

[patrick jane]

Evidence, yes, but not uniquely for divine creation. It is also evidence for chaotic, eternal cosmic inflation. So the existence of fine-tuning does not help you decide which hypothesis is true.

ALL of this cannot just happen. not without God. it's mathematically incalculable or ible. and yes, all that chaos and observable inflation is real. God kicked it all off, let's just thank Him that we can experience His creation for a blink of an eye on earth

 

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

Hey Bro'! Certainly you know what is written in the Bible. It says that God created the marine life and fowl miraculously. So how can you say He did not?? Are you competing with God for the Final Word about it all?? Did you know that God says He created man a couple days or so, after He created the marine life and lake life, and fowl. So that we are all very much about the SAME AGE!! If God can create a man who is 18 or so, so then He can create an aged Universe if He wishes. Your Peer Group's Dating Of Things Is OFF!!

Michael

:rapture:



each:

Michael, can you define "miraculously" in the sense you are using it?

 

[noguru]

How does anything you are saying cause what ever to exist to become something else?

--Dave

Life is life. We humans make the categories because science is a human endeavor. Science is a human attempt to investigate and define the natural world. The evidence we have strongly suggests two mechanisms which bring about biodiversity from common ancestry. Those 2 components are genetic variation and reproductive advantage. You really should put more of an effort into understanding these issues should you choose to pontificate further on them.

 

[gcthomas]

ALL of this cannot just happen. not without God. it's mathematically incalculable or ible. and yes, all that chaos and observable inflation is real. God kicked it all off, let's just thank Him that we can experience His creation for a blink of an eye on earth

You are arguing from personal incredulity, which is all very well but it is not a convincing rhetorical technique. The evidence suggests that the origin was either nature alone or it required nature plus God. Occam's razor would suggest the hypothesis that requires fewer entities to explain the observations is the correct one.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Michael writes:

Dave knows very well that the Universe is a miracle. So where did you get that??

Well, let's take a look...

Barbarian observes:
Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. Sounds like a miracle to me. Augustine wrote that the everyday workings of nature are miracles. And they are.

Dave replies:

Then God is nature.

Maybe Dave thinks God is nature, then.

 

[The Barbarian]

ALL of this cannot just happen. not without God. it's mathematically incalculable or ible. and yes, all that chaos and observable inflation is real. God kicked it all off, let's just thank Him that we can experience His creation for a blink of an eye on earth

It took mathematicians a long time to realize that there is order in chaos. Look up "Feigenbaum constant" for an example why that is the case. We think we are so wise, but God's ways are often more amazing and subtle than we can imagine.

Can you imagine God discussing strange attractors and bifurcation maps in Genesis? We don't need those to be saved, but He left us with the intelligence and curiosity to go look and wonder at His creation. Which is another demonstration of His wisdom and goodness.

How sad that people close themselves off to such things.

 

[6days]

Evidence, yes, but not uniquely for divine creation. It is also evidence for chaotic, eternal cosmic inflation. So the existence of fine-tuning does not help you decide which hypothesis is true.

God's Word does that.

 

[gcthomas]

God's Word does that.

God's Word does not have anything to say about eternal inflation, nor about the scientific method. You have to interpret madly to get much out of the OT at all, and so your comments more reflect 6Days's Word than God's Word.

 

[6days]

God's Word does not have anything to say about eternal inflation

Neither does science. Eternal inflation is a belief that contradicts the very first sentence of the Bible...There was a beginning.

nor about the scientific method.

Sure the Bible has something to say about this. Science is possible because God created our universe in an orderly manner making science possible.
Evolutionary anthropologist, Loren Eiseley says...
"The philosophy of experimental science … began its discoveries and made use of its methods in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation… It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption."

 

[gcthomas]

Neither does science. Eternal inflation is a belief that contradicts the very first sentence of the Bible...There was a beginning.

Hmm. You didn't know that eternal inflation requires a finite past, then? But, of course, beginnings don't necessarily require causes, despite you being desperate to assume so.

 

[The Barbarian]

Evolutionary anthropologist, Loren Eiseley says...
"The philosophy of experimental science … began its discoveries and made use of its methods in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation… It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption."

Hmm... historically, the first experimental science we know about was by Democritus of Abdera, who used experiments to show that air was matter, and to infer the existence of atoms. Eiseley's assumuption that deism is the foundation of science, is clearly contradicted by the evidence.

In Democritus' time, there was no recognized creator; Greeks believed in existence creating itself, and then gods who made various things,

 

[6days]

Neither does science. Eternal inflation is a belief that contradicts the very first sentence of the Bible...There was a beginning.

Hmm. You didn't know that eternal inflation requires a finite past, then? But, of course, beginnings don't necessarily require causes, despite you being desperate to assume so.

You agree then that science says nothing about eternal inflation? *(We agreed the Bible doesnt mention it).


And you mention another *belief, not supported by science, of yours... What has begun to exist that was not caused?

 

[gcthomas]

And you mention another *belief, not supported by science, of yours... What has begun to exist that was not caused?

You think that the universe needed a cause, but god didn't. I think that having a god hypothesis is not warranted, since you accept the possibility of uncaused existence and I say the universe is uncaused.

 

[6days]

Sure the Bible has something to say about this. Science is possible because God created our universe in an orderly manner making science possible.*

Evolutionary anthropologist, Loren Eiseley says...
"The philosophy of experimental science … began its discoveries and made use of its methods in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation… It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption

Hmm... historically, the first experimental science we know about was by Democritus of Abdera, who used experiments to show that air was matter, and to infer the existence of atoms. Eiseley's assumuption that deism is the foundation of science, is clearly contradicted by the evidence.

Yes Barbarian... we know you will attempt to discredit anyone saying something even remotely supportive of scripture. *