Creation vs. Evolution II

[6days]

There is opposing views even amongst evolutionists. (Chemical, biological, stellar). Students benefit when they are challenged to explore and compare competing ideas.

Honesty is to be valued, even amongst YECs, 6Days. Give it a go. You might like it.

I do like it!!

Perhaps explain why you object.

 

[gcthomas]

I do like it!!

Perhaps explain why you object.

"Evolutionist" is about biological evolution. Why do you include chemical and stellar evolution in your definition? I know Enyart conflates the different nuances of the word evolution in different contexts, but you shouldn't.

 

[6days]

*Evolutionist" is about biological evolution. Why do you include chemical and stellar evolution in your definition?

I suppose the first thought with the word 'evolution', is biological evolution. But, the definition of 'evolution', or 'evolutionist' isn't limited to biological evution.

For ex. "The naturalistic evolutionist believes that the universe began about 14 billion years ago. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. Life began, probably as bacteria deep in rocks and has been evolving ever since."*http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/what-is-an-evolutionist-faq.htm

 

[gcthomas]

I suppose the first thought with the word 'evolution', is biological evolution. But, the definition of 'evolution', or 'evolutionist' isn't limited to biological evution.

For ex. "The naturalistic evolutionist believes that the universe began about 14 billion years ago. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. Life began, probably as bacteria deep in rocks and has been evolving ever since."*http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/what-is-an-evolutionist-faq.htm

The Collins and Merriam Webster dictionaries disagree with you. Even your quote refers simply to biological evolution, and makes no mention of your chemical and stellar evolution, and only mention the age of the universe in the context of the time needed for biological evolution.

If you extend the meaning to include other meanings of evolution then the term becomes meaningless. Stock top the real meanings, and take back your denial that you use the term to apply to peer much all working scientists.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/evolutionist

 

[6days]

*The Collins and Merriam Webster dictionaries disagree with you.

They agree with me.*

*

*Even your quote refers simply to biological evolution, and makes no mention of your chemical and stellar evolution, and only mention the age of the universe in the context of the time needed for biological evolution.

I think you need read it again.*

They are describing a naturalistic evolutionist. This evolutionist believes in stellar, chemical and biological*

evolution.*

If you extend the meaning to include other meanings of evolution then the term becomes meaningless.

Merriam Webster disagrees with you.

There #1 definition is..."a person who*believes*in a*theory*ofevolution"

There are various theories of evolution besides Darwins theory. Google 'theory of stellar evolution', or 'theory of chemical evolution'.

Stock top the real meanings, and take back your denial that you use the term to apply to peer much all working scientists.

The term evolutionist refers to people who believe in stellar, chemical and biological (common ancestry). Evolutionists include many scientists but not all scientists. It includes nobel laureates, and mass murderers. Also amongst evolutionists you would find theists, atheists, vegetarians and sciophobists... and a few others.

 

[redfern]

The white hare is a mutant. All new and added characteristics in any species is the result of mutations in the theory of evolution.

What causes the mutation? Nature!
…
-Dave

Yup, and so are you a mutant. Ask 6days how many mutations you likely have in your DNA as compared to the DNA of your parents.

 

[6days]

The Collins and Merriam Webster dictionaries disagree with you.

They agree with me.

Even your quote refers simply to biological evolution, and makes no mention of your chemical and stellar evolution, and only mention the age of the universe in the context of the time needed for biological evolution.

I think you need read it again.

They are describing a naturalistic evolutionist. This evolutionist believes in stellar, chemical and biological evolution.

If you extend the meaning to include other meanings of evolution then the term becomes meaningless.

Collins you mentioned disagrees with you.
There #1 definition is..."a person who believes in a theory of evolution"
There are various theories of evolution besides Darwins theory. Google 'theory of stellar evolution', or 'theory of chemical evolution'.

Stock top the real meanings, and take back your denial that you use the term to apply to peer much all working scientists.

The term evolutionist refers to people who believe in stellar, chemical and biological (common ancestry). Evolutionists include many scientists but not all scientists. It includes nobel laureates, and mass murderers. Also amongst evolutionists you would find theists, atheists, vegetarians and sciophobists... and a few others.

 

[Jose Fly]

Collins you mentioned disagrees with you.
There #1 definition is..."a person who believes in a theory of evolution"

Sheesh....6days even quote mines dictionaries. The definition from Collins: "a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species".

See that last part in bold italics? That's what 6days conveniently left out when he copied the definition. SMH

 

[6days]

Sheesh....6days even quote mines dictionaries. The definition from Collins: "a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species".

See that last part in bold italics? That's what 6days conveniently left out when he copied the definition. SMH

Jose the quote miner... you deleted this from what I said "There are various theories of evolution besides Darwins theory. Google 'theory of stellar evolution', or 'theory of chemical evolution'.

 

[Jose Fly]

You know 6days, one thing I've always wondered about creationists like you is whether, at any level, you even realize 1) just how blatantly dishonest you consistently are, and 2) how that makes you and your faith look.

In this case, you claimed that the Collins dictionary supported you, quoted from their definition of "evolutionist" as being "a person who believes in a theory of evolution", and then argued that the definition refers not just to biological evolution, but chemical and stellar evolution as well.

But as I showed, you deliberately left out the second half of the definition "esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species".

And that's what makes me wonder.....do you even recognize just how dishonest that was? And are you at all aware how the fact that you habitually do things like that does serious damage to not only your reputation, but the reputation of your faith as well?

That's what I just can't figure out about creationists. I've never encountered a group of people who so consistently and blatantly lie, quote mine, ignore questions, and engage in all sorts of dishonesty.....while apparently being completely oblivious to every bit of it.

It's positively bizarre. It's also why I keep doing this....sort of a "what will they do now" thing, where I show up just to see what sort of crazy dishonest crap you're going to try and get away with this time.

I mean, I would think that at some point it would hit you how if creationism forces you to behave this way, then maybe it's not worth advocating, and quite likely very, very wrong.

But I guess I'm just funny that way. :idunno:

 

[6days]

*In this case, you claimed that the Collins dictionary supported you, quoted from their definition of "evolutionist" as being "a person who believes in a theory of evolution", and then argued that the definition refers not just to biological evolution, but chemical and stellar evolution as well.*

But as I showed, you deliberately left out the second half of the definition "esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species".

Jose.... I think you have an anger problem which causes you to have a blind spot towards logic.


Please read the definition again. Notice the word 'esp'? What do you think it means? Extra Sensory Perception? Nope... Does it mean the definition applies ONLY to biological evolution? Hmmm.. What do you think that word means?
If you know what that word means...then proceed to read what I said about the definition.

 

[gcthomas]

They agree with me.*


I think you need read it again.*

They are describing a naturalistic evolutionist. This evolutionist believes in stellar, chemical and biological*

evolution.*

Merriam Webster disagrees with you.

There #1 definition is..."a person who*believes*in a*theory*ofevolution"

Wrong again, 6days. I've told you before to pay attention to contexts, yet now you are quote mining a dictionary. :rotfl:

I've noticed, even of you haven't, that the Merriam Webster doesn't have the word in it's main online dictionary. Didn't you see? You are quoting from the medical dictionary, so the biological context is assumed.

Check the Oxford English Dictionary, Collins, the Cambridge University Dictionary, the free dictionary.com, the American Heritage Dictionary, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc.

Just searching until you find a weakly worded definition that you can twist is not good enough.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

When was the last time you chatted with Silent Hunter? Was it on this thread? He is banned from my Thread here and so is Hedshaker. If you know, let me know by a PM, because it is hard to catch you. In one day, this thread gets 3 pages ahead of me! Eeek!!

The Lord Reigns Over Jerusalem!!

Michael

 

[Jose Fly]

Jose.... I think you have an anger problem which causes you to have a blind spot towards logic.

Please read the definition again. Notice the word 'esp'? What do you think it means? Extra Sensory Perception? Nope... Does it mean the definition applies ONLY to biological evolution? Hmmm.. What do you think that word means?
If you know what that word means...then proceed to read what I said about the definition.

See, this is precisely what I don't get. When you first looked at the definition from Collins, you had to have seen it as it is on the website...

"a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species"

But in the process of trying to argue that their definition includes stellar and chemical evolution, you copied only the first part and presented it like this....

"a person who believes in a theory of evolution"

Now at some point, you had to have made a conscious choice to eliminate the entire second half of the definition, i.e., "esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species". You deliberately chose to cut that part out.

What I don't understand is why. Are you so dumb that you didn't think that second part was relevant? Or are you so dishonest and desperate to win every argument that you did it knowingly? And if it's the latter, did you figure no one would notice, or did you just not care?

No matter what the reason, you come out of this looking horrible....and by extension, so does your faith.

 

[6days]

No matter what the reason, you come out of this looking horrible....and by extension, so does your faith.

You didn't answer the question Jose. Do you know what the word 'esp' means in the definition? If you do...you will see I adressed that part of the definition. *

Not so sure why its important to you that 'evolutionists' refers to only Darwins theory? The definition is broader than that...""a person who believes in a theory of evolution"...As mentioned before, there are other theories of evolution including 'theories' of chemical and stellar evolution.

In any case... I'm glad you are part of TOL Jose. I sincerely wish you a joyful Christmas.*

 

[6days]

*Just searching until you find a weakly worded definition that you can twist is not good enough

The definition was from the link you provided.
I hope you have a joyful Christmas with family and friends. But... behave yourself!

 

[6days]

*When was the last time you chatted with Silent Hunter? Was it on this thread? He is banned from my Thread here and so is Hedshaker

Too bad they got banned. I wonder why. I like them both.

I'm not sure but I may not be here the next few days, so wishing you a merry Christmas. Remember the reason for the season..... its the cross! Our Creator stepped into human form for the purpose of being our mediator...shedding His blood, so we might live. Amazing love...how can it be!!??

 

[Jose Fly]

You didn't answer the question Jose. Do you know what the word 'esp' means in the definition?

So that's what you're hiding behind. To answer....yes, I know it means "especially".

Not so sure why its important to you that 'evolutionists' refers to only Darwins theory?

It's not important to me at all. That's why I didn't participate in the discussion until you actually attempted to quote mine a dictionary.

So now that I've answered your question, can you answer mine? Why did you leave out the second half of the Collins definition for "evolutionist"?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yup, and so are you a mutant. Ask 6days how many mutations you likely have in your DNA as compared to the DNA of your parents.

So everything is evolving all day long right?

--Dave

 

[redfern]

You didn't answer the question Jose. Do you know what the word 'esp' means in the definition? If you do...you will see I adressed that part of the definition.

“Especially” emphasizes the most usual or commonly meant definition of the word “evolutionist” – the very definition you chose not to include.