Could You Train Yourself To Enjoy...

[glassjester]

So, I've told you I was blown away by Stravinsky's 'Rite Of Spring' as a 13 year old kid. No choice in that whatsoever. Didn't know anything about the piece, how famous it was as a bombshell in classical music, nothing. The harmonies and rhythms just took me into a musical trip I'd never experienced before and it was amazing. I think I probably wore that tape out by the time my dad took it back to the library.

Now, do you think it's possible for me to train myself to not enjoy the piece?

Good question.

I guess it would be possible.
But you'd probably have to develop some major negative associations with it.

I can imagine a married couple loving their wedding song.
Then, if they were to later divorce, one or both ex-spouses might come to hate that same song.

 

[glassjester]

You can appreciate something without necessarily enjoying it.

Yes. Of course.

I had to study German Expressionist cinema at one point and view films that I normally wouldn't watch and still wouldn't. I appreciate their place in cinematic history however and their impact also. Won't be in any rush to watch 'The Cabinet Of Doctor Caligari' anytime soon though...

By the way, I actually enjoyed that movie a lot.

 

[ok doser]

Now, do you think it's possible for me to train myself to not enjoy the piece?

of course

 

[Arthur Brain]

Good question.

I guess it would be possible.
But you'd probably have to develop some major negative associations with it.

I can imagine a married couple loving their wedding song.
Then, if they were to later divorce, one or both ex-spouses might come to hate that same song.

There are no negative connotations with the piece. Well, apart from being bed ridden with measles at the time of hearing it so other than that argument, how do you 'guess' I could train myself to not enjoy a piece that blew and still does blow me away?

If you can't answer that then how the heck can you argue that I can 'train' myself to enjoy bland commercial music that does nothing for my ear whatsoever?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes. Of course.

By the way, I actually enjoyed that movie a lot.

Fair enough. I didn't but I could still appreciate it.

 

[glassjester]

If you can't answer that then how the heck can you argue that I can 'train' myself to enjoy bland commercial music that does nothing for my ear whatsoever?

Man, do you think all those dads on youtube dancing around with their toddler daughters to music from "Frozen," were innately drawn to that crap?

People do learn to like things that they didn't like at first.
That's just plain fact. You don't have to agree with it, for it to be true.

 

[glassjester]

of course

Well, that is a fictional example.

But of course it's possible to develop an aversion to something you previously enjoyed.

 

[ok doser]

Man, do you think all those dads on youtube dancing around with their toddler daughters to music from "Frozen," were innately drawn to that crap?

People do learn to like things that they didn't like at first.
That's just plain fact. You don't have to agree with it, for it to be true.

i dodged the bullet on lion king, thank goodness

 

[Arthur Brain]

Man, do you think all those dads on youtube dancing around with their toddler daughters to music from "Frozen," were innately drawn to that crap?

Why are you calling it 'crap'? And do you seriously think the dads are enjoying the music or rather the bond with their daughters instead?

People do learn to like things that they didn't like at first.
That's just plain fact. You don't have to agree with it, for it to be true.

This has nothing to do with how people can supposedly 'train' themselves to enjoy stuff they find bland and boring which is what you argued and have failed to make a case for.

 

[glassjester]

Why are you calling it 'crap'?

I'm calling it "crap," because I found "Let It Go" to be an immensely annoying song.
But I learned the words so I could play it on my guitar and sing it for my niece, and you know what? Not so crappy (to me) anymore!

In fact (confession time), sometimes I play it just for me.

And do you seriously think the dads are enjoying the music or rather the bond with their daughters instead?

Both.
They've built a strong positive association with the song.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I'm calling it "crap," because I found "Let It Go" to be an immensely annoying song.
But I learned the words so I could play it on my guitar and sing it for my niece, and you know what? Not so crappy (to me) anymore!

In fact (confession time), sometimes I play it just for me.

I've read story books to my nieces, doesn't mean I'm gonna enjoy reading 'Spot goes for a walk' by myself. I think you enjoy playing the piece because of the joy it brought you with regards to family bond more than anything.

Both.
They've built a strong positive association with the song.

Which isn't the same as enjoying the music itself. So far your argument seems to hinge more on positive/negative associations rather than one of being able to 'train' oneself to enjoy something that is completely unappealing.

 

[glassjester]

I've read story books to my nieces, doesn't mean I'm gonna enjoy reading 'Spot goes for a walk' by myself. I think you enjoy playing the piece because of the joy it brought you with regards to family bond more than anything.

Who cares why I came to enjoy it?
I came to enjoy it.

Isn't that all we're discussing here?

 

[ok doser]

Which isn't the same as enjoying the music itself.

looks like you need to define what you mean by "enjoy the music"

 

[Arthur Brain]

Who cares why I came to enjoy it?
I came to enjoy it.

Isn't that all we're discussing here?

No, it isn't. You're the one asserting that people can train themselves to enjoy things they have a complete aversion to. You've expressly told me I can do the same with pop music that I find completely bland and utterly boring. I've countered you as to why that can't be the case and so far your 'argument' has rested solely on positive/negative association and family bonds. I want you to present an argument that doesn't hinge on any of that. I've sat through hours and hours of 'My Little Pony' & 'Peppa Pig' and I've derived enjoyment from the happiness it's brought to the children. Can't stand either program in its own right.

So please, once again, tell me how I'm supposed to be able to train myself from enjoying something like 'The Rite Of Spring' - to not enjoying it and enjoying some crap pop song instead.

 

[glassjester]

and so far your 'argument' has rested solely on positive/negative association

Isn't that, in large part, what shapes our behavioral patterns?

 

[glassjester]

So please, once again, tell me how I'm supposed to be able to train myself from enjoying something like 'The Rite Of Spring' - to not enjoying it

Maybe you can't, now.
And I never claimed that you could "train yourself" to come to like or dislike any music at any point in time.

I only claimed that your choices shape your musical taste.

You could have chosen to turn off The Rite of Spring, 5 seconds into the piece.
You could have chosen to not find out the name of it, or its composer.
You could have chosen to never listen to it again.

If you'd chosen to do all those things, you might not even remember it all these years later.
In which case, you would not like that musical piece.

and enjoying some crap pop song instead.

Why instead? Why can't you enjoy two things?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Isn't that, in large part, what shapes our behavioral patterns?

This has nothing to do with your assertion that people can train themselves to enjoy things they don't. If you want to go on that tangent then that's a whole new thread, which you can start if you want.

 

[glassjester]

If you want to go on that tangent then that's a whole new thread, which you can start if you want.

I don't think I will.

Psychology is a bit boring sometimes.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Maybe you can't, now.
And I never claimed that you could "train yourself" to come to like or dislike any music at any point in time.

I only claimed that your choices shape your musical taste.

Have you ever been blown away by a piece of music GJ?

Where it comes to arguing that people can train themselves to enjoy things then sure you did. You said I could do that with Beyonce songs. Are you seriously going to backtrack from that now?

You could have chosen to turn off The Rite of Spring, 5 seconds into the piece.
You could have chosen to not find out the name of it, or its composer.
You could have chosen to never listen to it again.

And why the hell would I have done any of that when I was mesmerized by a piece that I certainly didn't "choose" to be transfixed by?

If you'd chosen to do all those things, you might not even remember it all these years later.
In which case, you would not like that musical piece.

How would you know whether I'd like it or not years down the line? I didn't choose to like the piece to begin with.

Why instead? Why can't you enjoy two things?

I enjoy music of all manner of genres and sub genres. Some of it falls under the 'popular' bracket but none of it's the manufactured banal variety.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I don't think I will.

Psychology is a bit boring sometimes.

Yeah, pop psychology can be as boring as a lot of pop music...