Conversation with Knight about losing faith

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ok doser

Well-known member
That's because you have no idea what Christianity is. Those things that cause people to admit they do not love Jesus Christ have nothing to with determining their salvation.

You're whining about the truth being laid out and, predictably, you hate it.

:first:
 

Nathon Detroit

New member
do you care
if
someone loses their faith?
Of course. It's always sad to see someone struggle. Especially when they are being fed crappy theology.

But ultimately each man and woman is responsible for their own decisions and there is typically not much you can do about it other than give your opinion or guidance if they ask for it.

I never really had much to do with Zoo. Don't know why he turned into a weirdo. I'm sure there was a lot more to the story than him occasionally posting on an internet forum.
 

bybee

New member
That's because you have no idea what Christianity is. Those things that cause people to admit they do not love Jesus Christ have nothing to with determining their salvation.

You're whining about the truth being laid out and, predictably, you hate it.

You are being unnecessarily harsh in my opinion. She is questioning. That is not hate.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
If every awful thing you've ever said (and don't get me wrong, I also think you're hilarious, but you do say really crappy things to people) was just an extrapolation from "go and sin no more" I will eat my hat.

the "crappy" things i say are perceived that way because I am blunt and insensitive

i care more for facts than feelings
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
I don't base my faith on the behavior of others and what they do.
I base my faith on Christ and what He does.

Not every Christian has the same amount of strength.

Should strong Christians look down on, berate, and mock weaker Christians, or offer them a helping, loving hand when they see them in need of one?
 

ok doser

Well-known member
... weaker Christians...

weaker Christians who are mislead by the world into believing that we should accept perversion in our midst?

weaker Christians who want to reject what God has written for what they believe the Bible should say?


weaker Christians who reject the wise counsel they can receive here because their precious feelings are hurt?
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
Of course. It's always sad to see someone struggle. Especially when they are being fed crappy theology.

But ultimately each man and woman is responsible for their own decisions and there is typically not much you can do about it other than give your opinion or guidance if they ask for it.

I never really had much to do with Zoo. Don't know why he turned into a weirdo. I'm sure there was a lot more to the story than him occasionally posting on an internet forum.


Because while you're saying it's sad to see someone struggle, it's always so helpful and loving and Christian to call him a weirdo.
 

PureX

New member
This attitude is astounding to me. Does it reflect your views as a Christian as well? If I could post a poll, I would. I'm interested in what other Christians have to say, and why.

It's an important topic to me, and your answers are important to me.


Also, for those who fixate on my "Other" designation: this thread isn't about what I believe, it's about what you believe.
The idea of one "losing one's faith" is a bit complicated, for me. Because I view the term "faith" as having two distinctly different meanings at the same time.

There is "faith" as in a collection of beliefs that we choose to hold about the nature and purpose of existence, and there is "faith" as in choosing to trust in an unknowable outcome in spite of it's unknowability. So that as a taoist, for someone to lose their faith (as in religion) is of little actual consequence. So long as they don't lose faith by that other meaning.

The truth of reality runs far deeper and is for more complex than we humans can discern. So we need to employ faith in the face of our profound ignorance, to live. Part of that application of faith involves these religious and philosophical conceptual paradigms that we use to create the illusion that we 'understand reality', and so can live in it with some degree of freedom and courage. And we will, from time to time, choose to drop one paradigm in favor of another. Which is perfectly normal and reasonable to do if we find that the paradigm we currently hold is no longer working so well for us. Then by all means we should switch to another, and see if it works better.

This kind of "loss of faith" is not meaningless, and I'm not as pitiless as Knight apparently is about it, but at the same time, it's just a normal aspect of human growth and change. So I feel no special pathos for those who are experiencing it.

The loss of that other kind of faith, however, is serious. Because that involves losing the ability to trust in the unknowable when doing so becomes necessary for forward motion in life (which is a good deal of the time). That kind of loss of faith becomes debilitating, and can cut people off from the joy and adventure of living. To the point of suicide, by all manner of self-abuse.

Here on TOL, we discuss, argue, and debate about faith in terms of our conceptual paradigms, and it stands to reason that some of us will come to realize that we no longer want to hold the paradigms that we do. And I actually believe that's a good thing, regardless of what paradigm is being let go, and what is being adopted. Because from my perspective, NONE of them are the truth, and different ones work better for different people at different times.

The other type of loss of faith, however, is a more serious matter. But is also quite rare, even here on TOL. And I'm not sure we can attribute that sort of loss of faith to others. That's something we each need to mind, for ourselves. The world becomes one nasty, scary place when we lose that aspect of faith!
 

bybee

New member
Because while you're saying it's sad to see someone struggle, it's always so helpful and loving and Christian to call him a weirdo.

When I really like someone, and I really like Zoo, it is hard to hear unkind things said about them.
Yet, truth be told, snide comments about the people for whom I have little or no respect tickle me. My bad! I suppose....
:eek:
 
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