ECT Conditional salvationists deny the Cross and the Bible

[musterion]

Romans 8:3-4 states as flatly as it can be stated that God condemned sin in the flesh, in order for the believer to walk freely in Christ.

Whose flesh suffered the condemnation for sin? Christ's.

But whose sin was condemned? The believer's.

Was any aspect of the believer's sin left unaddressed or not dealt with at the Cross? No (Col 1:13; 2:13; 3:13; Rom 8:1).

That, coupled with the believer's declared death to all condemning Law, is the basis for the believer's unconditional eternal safety in Christ.

So to persist in denying this God-ordained safety is to say that Paul lied or was wrong, which means the Bible cannot be trusted and should be trashed. It is to say God Himself lied, or at the very least cannot be trusted in what He says. It is slander against God and His Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

:BRAVO:

 

[Tambora]

Preach it, brother!

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Do you walk by His Spirit? Does He force you to?

 

[musterion]

Do you walk by His Spirit? Does He force you to?

Deal with the substance of the op first.

 

[Tambora]

Romans 10 KJV
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Deal with the substance of the op first.

"In order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:4
Paul says it comes down to whether or not we walk by the Spirit. The Spirit is by grace, not of ourselves, it's Him. The question then arises are we gonna do it willingly? Or does He force us to?

 

[musterion]

No, Paul did not make the conditional statement you want him to have made.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

No, Paul did not make the conditional statement you want him to have made.

"For IF you live according to the flesh you will die, BUT IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live." Romans 8:13

Here is another one. He said it, not me. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[musterion]

Die =/= loss of God's justification and Christ's reckoned holiness. For that to be true, sin would need to have NOT been dealt with at the Cross, which in turn would mean Paul would have irreconcilably contradicted himself when he stated that it was dealt with...making the Word of God a lie.

In short, you're proving the point of the op.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

No, Paul did not make the conditional statement you want him to have made.

"Former sins" Paul says in Romans 3:25
Where does it say ingratiate the flesh, to keep sinning?

 

[Danoh]

"For IF you live according to the flesh you will die, BUT IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live." Romans 8:13

Here is another one. He said it, not me. Don't shoot the messenger.

In my own understanding, Romans is establishment truth. Though it contains salvation gospel, the overwhelming majority of the Epistle is Establishment Truth - truth meant to establish, root or ground the saint, in the various details of The Faith.

In this, that passage you cited is addressing the struggle Paul was referring to in Romans 7 as to them "that know the Law."

His point in light of Romans 8's victory over Romans 7's defeat, is that if you try to live unto God via Romans 7's the Law's system of "thou shalt not" you'll set off the power of sin that the Law's system of "have to" had been meant to set off in the individual; that the sin nature might appear, might be made out to be, what it is; sin.

That had been the case back when the Law was till being used by God to point men to their inability to live unto Him in their own strength; and it had it own faith remedy.

And the Law had been meant to point all to the Cross one day when the fullness of time was come and Christ died for sin in man's stead, Rom. 3. Rom. 7, Gal. 3 and Gal. 4.

But, Paul continues, if you live after the Spirit - meaning; if you walk instead, in an understanding (Establishment Truth) of what the Spirit of God has declared in the Word of God He has done at the Cross in Christ, and though Him, in you, by His Spirit, you will live; you will be able to serve God.

Read Romans 7 and 8 again, see if this is not there. Contrast Paul's "I was alive once" with the above.

Of course, should you take offense that this was pointed out to you, whether or not you already knew it, said sense of offense is the result of this very issue also.

Such is the extent to which God has equipped the saint via His Word through His Spirit in the saint.

Such is the extent of that, that the saint can, if he is willing; to walk in the Spirit when faced with a sense of personal offense.

So much so that such sense of personal offense can end up working together with the doctrine (instruction) for good.

Said good being the glory of His Son in His New Creature by the Spirit through His Word, when walked in, by faith, despite what feelings might say otherwise

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

In my own understanding, Romans is establishment truth. Though it contains salvation gospel, the overwhelming majority of the Epistle is Establishment Truth - truth meant to establish, root or ground the saint, in the various details of The Faith.

In this, that passage you cited is addressing the struggle Paul was referring to in Romans 7 as to them "that know the Law."

His point in light of Romans 8's victory over Romans 7's defeat, is that if you try to live unto God via Romans 7's the Law's system of "thou shalt not" you'll set off the power of sin that the Law's system of "have to" had been meant to set off in the individual; that the sin nature might appear, might be made out to be, what it is; sin.

That had been the case back when the Law was till being used by God to point men to their inability to live unto Him in their own strength; and it had it own faith remedy.

And the Law had been meant to point all to the Cross one day when the fullness of time was come and Christ died for sin in man's stead, Rom. 3. Rom. 7, Gal. 3 and Gal. 4.

But, Paul continues, if you live after the Spirit - meaning; if you walk instead, in an understanding (Establishment Truth) of what the Spirit of God has declared in the Word of God He has done at the Cross in Christ, and though Him, in you, by His Spirit, you will live; you will be able to serve God.

Read Romans 7 and 8 again, see if this is not there. Contrast Paul's "I was alive once" with the above.

Of course, should you take offense that this was pointed out to you, whether or not you already knew it, said sense of offense is the result of this very issue also.

Such is the extent to which God has equipped the saint via His Word through His Spirit in the saint.

Such is the extent of that, that the saint can, if he is willing; to walk in the Spirit when faced with a sense of personal offense.

So much so that such sense of personal offense can end up working together with the doctrine (instruction) for good.

Said good being the glory of His Son in His New Creature by the Spirit through His Word, when walked in, by faith, despite what feelings might say otherwise

LOL.

You just single handedly destroyed dispensationism.

 

[musterion]

"Former sins" Paul says in Romans 3:25

"ALL sins" Paul says in Col 2:13.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

"ALL sins" Paul says in Col 2:13.

Having forgiven.

Past tense.:think:

 

[andyc]

Romans 8:3-4 states as flatly as it can be stated that God condemned sin in the flesh, in order for the believer to walk freely in Christ.

Whose flesh suffered the condemnation for sin? Christ's.

But whose sin was condemned? The believer's.

Was any aspect of the believer's sin left unaddressed or not dealt with at the Cross? No (Col 1:13; 2:13; 3:13; Rom 8:1).

That, coupled with the believer's declared death to all condemning Law, is the basis for the believer's unconditional eternal safety in Christ.

So to persist in denying this God-ordained safety is to say that Paul lied or was wrong, which means the Bible cannot be trusted and should be trashed. It is to say God Himself lied, or at the very least cannot be trusted in what He says. It is slander against God and His Christ.

The condition of salvation is 'faith'. "By grace through faith".
Once this is established, the next step is see if scripture talks about the possibility rejecting faith (to apostatize).

And yes scripture does talk about this, which is why mad was invented, so that some of the verses warning against unbelief can be redirected away from present day believers and on to a bunch of third rate second class believers called kingdom slaves.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

In my own understanding, Romans is establishment truth. Though it contains salvation gospel, the overwhelming majority of the Epistle is Establishment Truth - truth meant to establish, root or ground the saint, in the various details of The Faith.

In this, that passage you cited is addressing the struggle Paul was referring to in Romans 7 as to them "that know the Law."

His point in light of Romans 8's victory over Romans 7's defeat, is that if you try to live unto God via Romans 7's the Law's system of "thou shalt not" you'll set off the power of sin that the Law's system of "have to" had been meant to set off in the individual; that the sin nature might appear, might be made out to be, what it is; sin.

That had been the case back when the Law was till being used by God to point men to their inability to live unto Him in their own strength; and it had it own faith remedy.

And the Law had been meant to point all to the Cross one day when the fullness of time was come and Christ died for sin in man's stead, Rom. 3. Rom. 7, Gal. 3 and Gal. 4.

But, Paul continues, if you live after the Spirit - meaning; if you walk instead, in an understanding (Establishment Truth) of what the Spirit of God has declared in the Word of God He has done at the Cross in Christ, and though Him, in you, by His Spirit, you will live; you will be able to serve God.

Read Romans 7 and 8 again, see if this is not there. Contrast Paul's "I was alive once" with the above.

Of course, should you take offense that this was pointed out to you, whether or not you already knew it, said sense of offense is the result of this very issue also.

Such is the extent to which God has equipped the saint via His Word through His Spirit in the saint.

Such is the extent of that, that the saint can, if he is willing; to walk in the Spirit when faced with a sense of personal offense.

So much so that such sense of personal offense can end up working together with the doctrine (instruction) for good.

Said good being the glory of His Son in His New Creature by the Spirit through His Word, when walked in, by faith, despite what feelings might say otherwise

A point you made, that is a key message is, as Jesus said 'Only God is good'. And as you said, 'to live unto Him in our own strength' is futile.

But as Jesus said again, 'with God all things are possible' and Paul, "With Christ I can do all things who give me strength."

The matter really boils down to this I think. God does not force, but we can by grace and the cross, and the love God has given us through intimacy with His Holy Spirit, and the truth of Him, die to the self and allow Him to live through us to His glory! Will we say yes to Him?

 

[heir]

The condition of salvation is 'faith'. "By grace through faith".
Once this is established, the next step is see if scripture talks about the possibility rejecting faith (to apostatize).

Your search will be in vain. You cannot show where a member of the Body of Christ can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen with Christ and unsealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[heir]

LOL.

You just single handedly destroyed dispensationism.

"dispensationism" isn't a word.

 

[heir]

"Former sins" Paul says in Romans 3:25

All of our sins were in the future when God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing our trespasses unto us!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So if Christ died for one (and He did), He died for them all!

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;