ECT Classical Vs Biblical Original Sin – The Fall… Bone of my Bone (Part 5)

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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The following LINKED HERE 4th Part OP in this series fills in the gaps of discussion and links to all previous portions of this series.

Buckle Up… This one won’t be short. I would apologize… but the scripturally lazy reap what they “sew”, and this is too important a topic to weaken by trying to hammer out a rapid OP on. This is the “heart” of the “Biblical” doctrine of “Original Sin”.

Things to keep in mind as you read this

Nakedness is a “lacking”.
Adam and Eve were ONE FLESH.
God looks to the "Heart", not the "Flesh".

Scriptural List of Raw scriptures used to back up this OP’s Assertion.
Spoiler
Core Scriptures
(The Deceiver) Revelation 12:9; For all the “Nay Sayers” that want to take the devil out of the doctrine… note that you are denying “SCRIPTURE” that spans from Genesis to Revelation… and… that’s not a good idea!
Spoiler
John 12:31; Luke 10:18; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 8:44; Rev. 20:10; Rev. 20:2-3; Rev. 12:3; 1 John 5:19; 1 Pet. 5:8; 2 Thes. 2:9f, 11; 2 Co. 11:3; Gen. 3:1; Rm. 16:20; John 16:11; John 14:30; Luke 13:16; Mt. 25:41; Mt. 4:10; Is. 14:12; Rv. 19:20; Rv. 18:23; Rv. 18:2; Rv. 16:14; Rv. 12:7; Rv. 9:20; Rv. 2:24; Jd. 1:9; 1 John 3:8-10; Heb. 2:14; 2 Tim. 3:13; 1 Tim. 3:6-7; 1 Tim. 2:14; 2 Thes. 2:3; Eph. 4:14; 2 Cor. 12:7; 2 Cor. 11:14; 2 Co. 2:11; Rm. 16:18; Acts 26:18; Acts 5:3; Luke 22:31; Luke 22:3; Luke 8:12; Mt. 24:24; Mt. 13:39; Mt. 4:8; Mt. 4:5; Mt. 4:1; Zech. 3:1F; Ezek. 28:16; Is. 27:1; Ps. 109:5; Job 2:1-2; Job 1:6f, 8f, 10f, 12; 1 Chr. 21:1; Gen. 3:13; Gen. 3:4f;


(The Deceived) 1 Tim. 2:14; Gen. 3:6; Gen. 3:13; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Thes. 3:5; Rev. 12:15

(The Heart Broken Groom of Self-Sacrifice) Rm. 8:2; Rm. 5:14; John 6:57; John 5:21; Gen. 2:7; Gen. 2:23; Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:30; Eph. 5:25; Mt. 19:3f, 5f, 7f, 9; Eph. 5:28f, 30f; 1 Co. 6:16f; 1 Co. 7:10f; 1 Pt. 3:1f, 3f, 5f, 7; 1 Co. 7:2f, 4; Rm. 7:2; Pr. 31:10; Pr. 12:4; 1 Tim. 5:14; Acts 11:23; Joshua 23:8; Dt. 4:4; Lev. 22:12f; Gn. 31:14f, Gn. 24:58f;

(Love Trumps ALL) John 15:13; 1 John 2:7; 3:11; Lev. 19:18; 2 John 1:5f; Mk. 12:29f, 31f, 33f, 35f; Gal. 5:13f; Rm. 13:8f, 10; Mt. 22:37f, 39f; 1 John 3:23; 1 John 2:24; James 2:8f, 10f, 12; Mt. 5:43; Dt. 6:5; Lev. 19:34
Order of Discussion…

1) The actual verbiage of the Account in Spoiler and Markup format
2) The Dragon
3) Eve
4) Eve is a typification of all Humanity, but especially “Israel”… Handing the “Groom” over to “Death”.
5) Adam is a typification of JESUS not SATAN!
6) It’s a Love story to those that believe GOD is Love and Look to the Heart, while resisting the Satanic urge to “Judge the Flesh” as Satan teaches!
7) Who told you that you were “Lacking” … (Naked)

The actual verbiage of the Account in Spoiler and Markup format​
Spoiler
Genesis 3:1
1A.Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, 1B.‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

1A. Note who is introduced first in this chapter? Who is the origin of all sin?

1B. No you lying Serpent! You are no liberator! God is the AUTHOR of HUMAN Free Will! (Gen. 2:16)

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “2A.We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, 3A.nor shall you touch it, lest 3B.you die.’”​

2A. Way to go Eve! You have continued to believe that God is the Author of Free Will and the Lover of your soul!

3A. Damnit Eve! Seriously! He never said that! (2 Co. 11:3; 2 Pt. 3:17) He said this! (Gen. 2:17)

3B. Eve! He said “Surely Die”! The dragon is moving rapidly to ensnare your childlike faith through vein tales of lies and false promises!

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, 4A.“You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and 4B.you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”​

4A. Way to go Dragon! (Sarcasm) You just officially twisted God’s wording. Just wait till Daddy rectifies things!

4B. The Dragon sinks his rotten teeth into Eve with his self-imbibed lie! (Is. 14:14; Is. 46:5)
6 6A. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that 6B. it was pleasant to the eyes, and 6C. a tree desirable to make one wise, 6D.she took of its fruit and ate. 6E.She also gave to her husband with her, 6F. and he ate.

6A. Now the appeal of the Lie is “Visible” and Eve begins to believe she is lacking something… as if God would ever leave us “Lacking”.

6B. Lust of the Eyes

6C. Lust of the Flesh. But the actual fruit was fruit that was perfect by the Loving Creators WORK and Knowledge. After all... God had the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and this can only mean one thing... that we were only lacking the Knowledge of GOD. Why is this important? Because only God can "Handle" such "Knowledge" and yet Judge and Choose right from wrong perfectly and righteously. (Col. 1:16)

6D. And now the deal is sealed and deception enters the world through Eve!

6E. (John 19:11) … “We”... (But especially His Bride… “National Israel”) handed Him over to die, but the one who “Deceived” has the deep SIN accounted to him… The Dragon. Eve had no “Authority” over Adam! Only God had authority over Adam and God and Adam allowed Eve to “Choose”.

6F. (Mt. 26:39)

7 7A. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and 7B.they knew that they were naked; and 7C.they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.​

7A. Spiritually Dead (Blind)

7B. They felt “Lacking” when knowing the PERFECTION of God! They felt Shame for what God had made them. They questioned the Creator’s Workmanship and began to be Ashamed of the very Creator’s WORK.

7C. They began to try to make themselves right in the eyes of GOD with foolish effort and cover their shame with foolish attempts at correcting their error. God clearly respected their bodies as His perfect work and was saddened that Adam and Eve now felt SHAME and “Lacking”.

8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.​

God walked among Adam and Eve and by deception… “Eve” and “Adam” were now hiding from the One that “Loved them as they were” (Rm. 5:8), though “Eve” had believed the deception of one that destroys (Rv. 9:11) and as God made Adam of LOVE… Adam would rather be “Destroyed” than lose the “Bone of his Bone and Flesh of his Flesh”! (Eph. 5:25)

9 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”​

The implications of this one question, asked by God, are EARTH Shattering to any weary traveler. He is ALWAYS seeking out that ONE "Lost Sheep"!

10 So he said, “10A. I heard Your voice in the garden, and 10B. I was afraid because I was naked; and 10C. I hid myself.”​

10A. Adam could still “hear” the WORD.

10B. Adam was fearful of God and felt “lacking” in HIS presence.

10C. Adam hid from the ONE that Loved him and his cherished bride.

11 And He said, “11A. Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which 11B. I commanded you that you should not eat?”[/indent]

11A. Who “lied” to you and told you that you were “lacking”?
Don’t Believe Me? Then how about this?
Gen. 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
That’s right! They were both NAKED and NOT or UNASHAMED!

11B. Now that Adam and Eve knew Good and Evil… God addresses them with the word “Commanded”. Order of occurrence and detail… details… details… details…

12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”​

Gen. 2:23, 24

13 And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”​

1 Tim. 2:14 … no lying from eve… and she admitted to “eating” before God.

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”​

God clearly assigns the Blame by saying “Because you have DONE THIS” to Satan!

16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”​

“With the wisdom of GOD, comes much SORROW”. Jesus is the Child that will be pined for and Jesus is the Husband that is GOOD that HUMANITY ached for as of that very moment! And indeed… He will Rule over us! Praise Jesus that HE will RULE OVER Us!

17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:​

Heeding the voice of EVE is prophetic of God heeding our voices in need for HIS REDEMPTION! Adam is now given the solution to his new problem!

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.​

The Law is now in full effect to be used by the Serpent, but it is to guide mankind back to God when they are led astray! Note that God says… “For you SAKE”? It’s not a CURSE! It’s the way God paved the way for THE WAY!

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;​

Sewn into corruption? Even in Eden… the corrupter came and spoiled God’s initial Work. But the “sweat of Adam’s face” will lead all mankind to the “Living Bread!”

For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”​

And… DEATH eats Dust! (Heb. 2:14) … it isn’t until Heb. 11:39f that Death no longer separates mankind from God after “Death” of the “Dust”.

20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.​

God is Creator and Eve is symbolic of “ALL CREATION”. And just to throw a massive MONKEY WRENCH into the idea that we are “Spiritually Dead” at birth… Why is Eve the MOTHER of the Living, though she “Spiritually Died” in Eden? Evil.Grin.<(I)> It’s amazing how much one can learn if Jesus is the center of study and scripture is believed as “God Breathed”, just like us… (Job 33:4)

21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.​

I know the heated debate on this, as I have read it… so I won’t share my perspective on “how” the skin was acquired… but I can say that this is a prophecy that points to passages like this… (Rom. 13:14; Gal. 3:27)

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.​

I do believe that this is where we have been in the last 4 OP’s of this OP series!
The Dragon

Rv. 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.​

Who did God say the originator of "Sin" is?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.​

Who did God assign the "Blame" of original sin too?

Gen. 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,​

Who did GOD JUDGE on the CROSS?

Hebrews 2:14

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,​

Are you not that certain yet? Do you really "Blame" Adam for the Sin that is "In the WORLD"?

Do we now JUDGE God's workmanship? Do you really want to answer one of lifes deepest questions without compassion, Mercy, understanding and with only a "handful" of verses?

Incase you are resistant to understanding that the DRAGON is the "Originator" of Sin... and DECEPTION... please go back to the top and open the spoiler for supporting verses about the Deceiver.

Eve

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.​

This is ALL of us... not just Eve! The Deciever has recruits now that assist him in the corruption of the soul and no amount of SHELTER can stave off his initial attack, because we aren't Jesus (Heb. 4:15).

Gen. 3:13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”​

Not buying it? Paul say about this?

2 Corinthians 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.​

What? Did Paul just explain that we are all "Weak" like Eve? He sure did! And what came of weakness? Our Heavenly Bone of our Bone and Flesh of our Flesh was Exalted in Power, by laying His life down for ALL of Us!

What does Peter say?

1 Peter 3:7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.​

There it is again! The Bride is likened unto ALL HUMANITY and The Husband is Likened unto Adam and Christ. It's almost like the entire NEW TESTAMENT does this! (This is MILK and the Dispensational MEAT of the matter can be revealed another time.)

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.​

There it is again... Eve is noted as being deceived by the serpent, but now CHRIST is likened unto ADAM. Imagine that!

1 Thes. 3:5 For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.​

What's this? Now Eve is being likened unto "ALL BELIEVERS"? Temptation is being attributed to the Tempter AGAIN! Why is ALL scripture agreeing with me? Could it be because I'm agreeing with ALL scripture... on this specific point?

Rev. 12:15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

Now look! Eve... the "Woman" is likened unto ISRAEL and the SERPENT is trying to sweep her away into ETERNAL DEATH! (Jude 1:9 and Daniel 10:13) ... Why is the Dragon in so much scripture as the ORIGINATOR OF SIN? This is in direct conflict with "Classical original sin"... Someone needs to "Correct the Bible"! (Sarcasm)

Adam is a typification of JESUS not SATAN!​

1 Co. 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.​

Here is the connection between Adam and Christ. Now lets evaluate what really happened with a verse I overquote!

Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,​

Why does this verse LIKEN PARTAKING of "Flesh and Blood" unto "Eating" something and then Christ goes forward and "Eats" the same thing? Seriously? I'm all ears? Why is Christ's act of Heb. 2:14 likened unto PARTAKING of the Fruit that was Forbidden, like ADAM did?

Maybe Paul has some help here?

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.​

Same Tree being used, but when GOD uses it... LIFE is Given. When the creation uses it... (Specifically Satan)... Death is wrought forth! Life giving SPIRIT? vs. Heb. 2:14... which reveals who brings Sin and Death in that ties to (1 Co. 15:55f)

So... Why is Satan's origin of sin likened unto Adam? Why is Adam blamed by much of the "Classical Church Doctrine"?

SCRIPTURAL IGNORANCE!!!

It's about to get r-e-a-l up in h-e-r-e! BONE OF MY BONE!!!

Let's go forward now!

It’s a Love story to those that believe GOD is Love and Look to the Heart, while resisting the Satanic urge to “Judge the Flesh” as Satan teaches!

Sorry Augustine Fans... My foot is now on the head of the "Classical Doctrine" and I'm reaching for my SWORD!

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.​

Sure... Adam made a snap judgment... but... was it "Evil"? Let's look at how ADAM was a genuine TYPIFICATION of Jesus!

Adam could have said... EVE... YOU MORON... "Edith... You're a real PIP... you knows that?" and then thrown the fruit on the ground and walked off.

But... Who does that? ... (Mt. 26:15)... Was Adam a "JUDAS"?

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

1 Peter 3:7

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

Colossians 3:19

Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.

Ephesians 5:28

In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Ephesians 5:2

And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Genesis 2:24

Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Galatians 1:4

who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Ephesians 5:33

However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Revelation 1:5

and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Matthew 20:28

even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Revelation 5:9

And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

1 Timothy 2:6

who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Proverbs 5:18-19

Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, a lovely deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight; be intoxicated always in her love.

2 Samuel 12:3

but the poor man had nothing but one little ewe lamb, which he had bought. And he brought it up, and it grew up with him and with his children. It used to eat of his morsel and drink from his cup and lie in his arms, and it was like a daughter to him.

Genesis 24:67

Then Isaac brought her into the tent of Sarah his mother and took Rebekah, and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.​

How about the HEAVY HITTERS THAT Bring this HOME!

Ephesians 5:30

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.


Genesis 2:23 And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;

She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.


I was going to write more on this... but... I can feel it!

It's a LOVE STORY! And I'm armed to the teeth with scripture to defend the Love of God that was seen in ADAM who bore the very IMAGE of GOD as we DO!

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 
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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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[MENTION=18375]Evil.Eye.<(I)>[/MENTION] throws in an extra biblical quote and it's not what people expected!

“Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love.”​

- J.R.R. T.

(John 10:27; John 13:35; Mt. 23:12 and Mt. 24:12)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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That awkward silence hangs in the balance as I think to myself... self... the longer the OP, the more opportunity there is for people to rebut. from different angles.

I'll just keep peeking in. :aimiel:
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I buried a few matters that require "spiritual discernment" into this thread. One involves the erroneous quote from J.R.R. that I added and the other involves the matter of "Baring the Image of God". I don't believe any are or ever can "Be like God". But I have nodded towards a matter. I'm surprised that no one has asked for clarification.

Also... I defined Nakedness as a "lacking", but adamantly suggested that God never leaves us lacking.

Again... I'm surprised that no one asked for further clarification on this matter.
 

glorydaz

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Long OP... gratitude to each of you that read it... Debate, Rebuttal, Affirmation ... any feedback is welcome.

Lots of good stuff in there, and I've yet to read all in the spoilers. But, one question came to mind when you got on a roll at the end there. Where does this fit in?

Gen. 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.​
 

glorydaz

New member
I buried a few matters that require "spiritual discernment" into this thread. One involves the erroneous quote from J.R.R. that I added and the other involves the matter of "Baring the Image of God". I don't believe any are or ever can "Be like God". But I have nodded towards a matter. I'm surprised that no one has asked for clarification.

Also... I defined Nakedness as a "lacking", but adamantly suggested that God never leaves us lacking.

Again... I'm surprised that no one asked for further clarification on this matter.

These thread go by fast. I, for one, just saw it. :)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Lots of good stuff in there, and I've yet to read all in the spoilers. But, one question came to mind when you got on a roll at the end there. Where does this fit in?

Gen. 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.​

In the Account spoiler, I wrote this for verse 6, which parallels verse 12...

6 6A. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that 6B. it was pleasant to the eyes, and 6C. a tree desirable to make one wise, 6D.she took of its fruit and ate. 6E.She also gave to her husband with her, 6F. and he ate.

....

6E. (John 19:11) … “We”... (But especially His Bride… “National Israel”) handed Him over to die, but the one who “Deceived” has the deep SIN accounted to him… The Dragon. Eve had no “Authority” over Adam! Only God had authority over Adam and God and Adam allowed Eve to “Choose”.

6F. (Mt. 26:39)
 
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