God's Truth
New member
That scripture says Jesus will be called Father, so why does it bother you that I call Jesus Father?
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
- Start date
That scripture says Jesus will be called Father, so why does it bother you that I call Jesus Father?
Because of your personal paradigm of belief. You think that Jesus is the same person as the Father. He is not. Yes, Jesus can be called the Father, but not because the Son is the Father, but because the Father and the Son are two Persons, but the same God.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is called Father because he is, and there is no pretending, as you suggest.
Jesus is not the Father. Your assertion is blasphemous. Show us where anyone called Jesus Father.
God's Truth
New member
I have given you many scriptures.
Pay better attention.
Psalms 22:16 KJV
(16) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Zechariah 12:9-10 KJV
(9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
(10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Revelation 1:7-8 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
These scriptures prove that God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son are the same one.
God's Truth
New member
Scriptures that say Jesus is God the Father:
See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
The ROCK that FATHERED them was Christ.
Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.
See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
If we are Jesus' children, then he is our Father.
John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Did you read that scripture? Who but a Father will not leave children as orphans?
Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.
See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
That means when we see Jesus, we can say, "I see the Father."
God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?
WHO created them? Jesus did and the scripture calls him the Father.
See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
The ROCK that FATHERED them was Christ.
Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.
See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
If we are Jesus' children, then he is our Father.
John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Did you read that scripture? Who but a Father will not leave children as orphans?
Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.
See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
That means when we see Jesus, we can say, "I see the Father."
God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?
WHO created them? Jesus did and the scripture calls him the Father.
Blasphemed interpretation to make the scriptures say what you want haven't you.
God's Truth
New member
You don't even know that you did not defend your beliefs with anything but insult and denial. That is why you should fear blasphemy.
Matthew 7:2 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged,
Jude 1:10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct--as irrational animals do--will destroy them.
2 Peter 2:12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
Hello bad fruit.
Matthew 7:16-20 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
God's Truth
New member
Your bad fruit of condemning people is showing.
I show people how to know Jesus better.
You like to tell people they are condemned.
Jesus must have had bad fruit then, because He condemned a lot of people.
God's Truth
New member
No, he told people how to be saved.
Not a lot of "how to be saved" in Matthew 23...
YOUR logic will lead you into Hell, after you've left planet earth and moved on.
Be forewarned my fellow posters, Meshak ONLY believes in the first four books of the New Testament; Matthew through John and REJECTS the rest of the New Testament. She dismisses ALL of the writings of the Apostle Paul and has a deep-seated resentment of him. Since she has REJECTED the ONLY Gospel for today, she's isn't a member of the "Body of Christ' and, unless she accepts it, will not be entering eternal life, but, will be spending eternity in the 'Lake of Fire.' You might want to pray for her salvation? She's stubborn and set in her ways.
Where there's life there's hope.
God's Truth
New member
You speak falseness about Jesus; he taught a lot about how to get saved.
God's Truth
New member
You are Meshak's opposite twin because she only believes what Paul didn't say, and you only believe what Paul says. You both think wrong.
truthjourney
New member
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Most of Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is their mediator. But the official teachings of the Watchtower say otherwise. The WT maintains that Jesus is NOT the personal mediator for the vast majority (99%) of mankind. Most Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even aware of this official teaching.
The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all.
"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6
In flagrant disregard, Watchtower says Jesus is mediator for just the 144,000 anointed.
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31
Call to Watchtower in NYC. Jesus not mediator for JWs. Uploaded with permission.
Watchtower Representative says we don't have a mediator.
Transcribed below...
Caller:...that particular article
WT rep: Yes, I'm looking at it.
Caller: Ok, now the question I have based on #3 where it talks about who should partake of the bread and the wine. Now I'm gathering from this article, that the anointed folks and in this case I'm specifically talking about the governing body since they represent the 144K correct?
WT rep: Well yah in a sense, they're part of the faithful and discreet slave.
Caller: So but they're basically are the ones who are leading the congrea.. well leading the whole.. all of Jehovah's Witnesses is what I'm asking, or what I'm stating.
WT rep: Alright
Caller: So is that a true assessment?
WT rep: That they are leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Caller: Yes
WT rep: Ummm, well they're part of the faithful and discreet slave, you know the don't write everything that is ever written
Caller: But for all intent and purpo, I mean this is just a pre-question to the actual question that I'm going to ask. I just wanted to know for practical purposes if the governing body, which I believe is 7 members now?
WT rep: Yes
Caller: Um If they are indeed, they're basically making the decisions in leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses, that's my understanding.
WT rep: Ok
Caller: Basically, so what I'm gathering from this article is, um, it's somewhat disturbing to me, because it's making it seem like the anointed are, lets see how I want to phrase this, um, that the anointed are ac..in reality according to Jehovah's Witnesses the mediator, between you know the individual and God.
WT rep: No, Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K.
Caller: So, what I..so what this article is is implying then is that, the 144K or the governing body however you want to look at it are mediators between the great crowd. So Jesus is...
WT rep: They're kings and priests on their behalf..
Caller: So, so how does that square with 1 Tim 2:5 & 6? I'm not I'm not understanding this.
WT rep: That says that Jesus is the mediator, he's talking about between Jehovah and the 144K right?
Caller: Well that's not that's not the way I'm seeing it,
WT rep: Well?
Caller: If you read 1 Tim, hold on for a sec, let me actually bring that up, I know you use the New World Translation, um I'm actually looking um at another translation, but I don't think there's any particular difference in this, um let's see. I appreciate your assistance by the way, your time. 1 Tim 2:5 &6 it says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time". So I'm I'm seei I'm finding that this is violating 1 Tim 2:5 especially.
Caller: Cuz the Watchtower says thru them, meaning the anointed, the few, the 144K, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Thru Them, it means, so in other words, not thru Jesus
WT rep: uh
Caller: You see what I'm saying? It just seems to be an absolute violation of 1 Tim 2:5. I'm reading it, that the governing body is, well in a sense it is the governing body because, the 144K are not making, are not part of the writing department or you know making doctrinal decisions, it's basically done thru the 7 members of the governing body. So they, in effect, as I'm seeing it, are the mediators, for the great crowd. You see what I'm saying?
WT rep: Yeah, but it's not talking about now, it's talking about in the future.
Caller: I don't understand, what do you mean in the future?
WT rep: Well the blessings that will be conveyed thru the new covenant are in the future. It's not now, it will be (thru?) the priesthood, the kingship, of Jesus with the 144K.
Caller: Ok so what abo so what about now then, Jesus is not, your saying Jesus is is is not the mediator now? or
WT rep: Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K
Caller: Ok so, who is the mediator for the other people, the great crowd?
WT rep: Well we pray thru Jesus, name, everybody does that?
Caller: Ok so Jesus is the mediator between the great crowd, right? I mean you're talking about the future, I'm talking about now. Who is the mediator between the great crowd, well that's the question, who is the mediator for the great crowd, is my question at this particular time, presently.
WT rep: I don't think we have one.
Caller: We don't have a mediator?
WT rep: Well, no, we we pray thru Jesus name but the only mediator-ship is in connection with Jehovah and the 144K.
Caller: Ok so if your saying it's it's the onl if the mediator-ship is only via the 144K then the great crowd has no mediator, either that or it's the governing body.
WT rep: Right we don't have a mediator.
Caller: So that still seems to be a violation of 1 tim 2: v 6 or v 5
WT rep: Yeah. a lot of people feel that we have the wrong understanding of that...we had an April 1, 1979 WT that discussed it if you....
Most of Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is their mediator. But the official teachings of the Watchtower say otherwise. The WT maintains that Jesus is NOT the personal mediator for the vast majority (99%) of mankind. Most Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even aware of this official teaching.
The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all.
"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6
In flagrant disregard, Watchtower says Jesus is mediator for just the 144,000 anointed.
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31
Call to Watchtower in NYC. Jesus not mediator for JWs. Uploaded with permission.
Watchtower Representative says we don't have a mediator.
Transcribed below...
Caller:...that particular article
WT rep: Yes, I'm looking at it.
Caller: Ok, now the question I have based on #3 where it talks about who should partake of the bread and the wine. Now I'm gathering from this article, that the anointed folks and in this case I'm specifically talking about the governing body since they represent the 144K correct?
WT rep: Well yah in a sense, they're part of the faithful and discreet slave.
Caller: So but they're basically are the ones who are leading the congrea.. well leading the whole.. all of Jehovah's Witnesses is what I'm asking, or what I'm stating.
WT rep: Alright
Caller: So is that a true assessment?
WT rep: That they are leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Caller: Yes
WT rep: Ummm, well they're part of the faithful and discreet slave, you know the don't write everything that is ever written
Caller: But for all intent and purpo, I mean this is just a pre-question to the actual question that I'm going to ask. I just wanted to know for practical purposes if the governing body, which I believe is 7 members now?
WT rep: Yes
Caller: Um If they are indeed, they're basically making the decisions in leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses, that's my understanding.
WT rep: Ok
Caller: Basically, so what I'm gathering from this article is, um, it's somewhat disturbing to me, because it's making it seem like the anointed are, lets see how I want to phrase this, um, that the anointed are ac..in reality according to Jehovah's Witnesses the mediator, between you know the individual and God.
WT rep: No, Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K.
Caller: So, what I..so what this article is is implying then is that, the 144K or the governing body however you want to look at it are mediators between the great crowd. So Jesus is...
WT rep: They're kings and priests on their behalf..
Caller: So, so how does that square with 1 Tim 2:5 & 6? I'm not I'm not understanding this.
WT rep: That says that Jesus is the mediator, he's talking about between Jehovah and the 144K right?
Caller: Well that's not that's not the way I'm seeing it,
WT rep: Well?
Caller: If you read 1 Tim, hold on for a sec, let me actually bring that up, I know you use the New World Translation, um I'm actually looking um at another translation, but I don't think there's any particular difference in this, um let's see. I appreciate your assistance by the way, your time. 1 Tim 2:5 &6 it says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time". So I'm I'm seei I'm finding that this is violating 1 Tim 2:5 especially.
Caller: Cuz the Watchtower says thru them, meaning the anointed, the few, the 144K, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Thru Them, it means, so in other words, not thru Jesus
WT rep: uh
Caller: You see what I'm saying? It just seems to be an absolute violation of 1 Tim 2:5. I'm reading it, that the governing body is, well in a sense it is the governing body because, the 144K are not making, are not part of the writing department or you know making doctrinal decisions, it's basically done thru the 7 members of the governing body. So they, in effect, as I'm seeing it, are the mediators, for the great crowd. You see what I'm saying?
WT rep: Yeah, but it's not talking about now, it's talking about in the future.
Caller: I don't understand, what do you mean in the future?
WT rep: Well the blessings that will be conveyed thru the new covenant are in the future. It's not now, it will be (thru?) the priesthood, the kingship, of Jesus with the 144K.
Caller: Ok so what abo so what about now then, Jesus is not, your saying Jesus is is is not the mediator now? or
WT rep: Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K
Caller: Ok so, who is the mediator for the other people, the great crowd?
WT rep: Well we pray thru Jesus, name, everybody does that?
Caller: Ok so Jesus is the mediator between the great crowd, right? I mean you're talking about the future, I'm talking about now. Who is the mediator between the great crowd, well that's the question, who is the mediator for the great crowd, is my question at this particular time, presently.
WT rep: I don't think we have one.
Caller: We don't have a mediator?
WT rep: Well, no, we we pray thru Jesus name but the only mediator-ship is in connection with Jehovah and the 144K.
Caller: Ok so if your saying it's it's the onl if the mediator-ship is only via the 144K then the great crowd has no mediator, either that or it's the governing body.
WT rep: Right we don't have a mediator.
Caller: So that still seems to be a violation of 1 tim 2: v 6 or v 5
WT rep: Yeah. a lot of people feel that we have the wrong understanding of that...we had an April 1, 1979 WT that discussed it if you....
