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Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER
godrulz said:
The U.S. is not a theocracy like Israel was, nor is this God's agenda apparently.

I know the U.S is not a theocracy, but does that mean we should ignore God's commandments?
 

Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Silk Queen said:
No that can't be said.
That is a big NO NO to tell someone they are not a christians.
It is like walking on egg shells in that forum.


But what if someone is NOT a Christian? Shouldn't we at least warn them? It would be a shame if someone went to hell because a Christian was too afraid of offending them while they were here on Earth. Agreed?
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
Sozo said:
Why do you say that?


I think you have a Christian president and we may be getting a Christian Prime Minister today (Steven Harper). The people have rejected God and the separation of church and state seem to preclude a theocracy (let's hope a Mormon or Muslim president does not get in).

Israel was a special nation and theocracy sovereignly chosen by God to bless the nations and bring forth the Messiah. This plan is on hold. The Church is now God's instrument for changing the world. We should be involved in politics, but His kingdom and institution is not a political one. He sets up His rule in people's hearts. We should be salt and light and strive to have godly government (Romans 13 implies that secular government can also be used of God). The NT is a love vs political revolution. Until the Millennial Kingdom is ushered in with the return of the King of kings, we should not expect God to establish a theocracy of Judeo-Christian rule. I am for capital punishment. I am not for Constantinian conversion, legislation of external morality, or mass extermination of believers and unbelievers who do not keep a Sabbath or hate their parents.
 

godrulz

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Hall of Fame
Shimei said:
I know the U.S is not a theocracy, but does that mean we should ignore God's commandments?

Nope. Let's preach the Gospel, including the benefits of God's Laws for a just society (I am also pro-capital punishment). Change the heart primarily rather than foisting laws on rebels who would give lip service vs loving obedience to the Moral Governor of the universe.
 

lamby

New member
Shimei said:
But what if someone is NOT a Christian? Shouldn't we at least warn them? It would be a shame if someone went to hell because a Christian was too afraid of offending them while they were here on Earth. Agreed?

If you visit that site, go into the General Apologetics area. That's where non-believers and believers can post together, and read what is being said there. There are christians who are warning them and trying to make them understand about our faith. There are ways to tell a non-believer without offending them.
 

oftenbuzzard

New member
Big Mouth Nana said:
I have been a member of CF for over 3 years, and have posted there almost everyday for that length of time. I have received several "warnings" myself for Ad Homien attacks...which in my mind were gentle rebukes. One of the problems that they have in their Eschatology forum, is that the mods are almost all Catholics. Now, how are you going to say that the whore of Babylon is the Catholic church if you believe that, lol? Not that I do, but there are those that do. Anything slightly resembling something against the Catholic church in Eschatology is a BIG NO NO....but they have a forum for that in the Catholic forum. The problem there is, you can ask questions, but not attack their beliefs with scripture even, but they can chew on you if they want. Where is the fairness in that?


Yeah, and there was this drstevej mod-guy (I don't think he's Catholic) that was always gunning down full preterists. What's up wit' dat?

:crow: Buzz
 

Nathon Detroit

New member
oftenbuzzard said:
Yeah, and there was this drstevej mod-guy (I don't think he's Catholic) that was always gunning down full preterists. What's up wit' dat?

:crow: Buzz
Full preterists are welcome at TOL as long as they don't post anything.




;)
 

oftenbuzzard

New member
Knight said:
Full preterists are welcome at TOL as long as they don't post anything.




;)

I ain't no full preterist, nor a half-empty one.

Fact is Buzz is practicing for the rapture right now...

:jump:



:crow: Buzz going up ????
 

Evee

New member
Shimei said:
But what if someone is NOT a Christian? Shouldn't we at least warn them? It would be a shame if someone went to hell because a Christian was too afraid of offending them while they were here on Earth. Agreed?

Well they do get told by some but the Holy Spirit is the only way it will get through to them.
They just argue the point but we love each other I was born this way....Blah Blah Blah :bang:
 

no avatar

New member
oftenbuzzard said:
Yeah, and there was this drstevej mod-guy (I don't think he's Catholic) that was always gunning down full preterists. What's up wit' dat?

:crow: Buzz
I remember that drstevej guy. He was gunnin' for all the unorthodox Christians. Tact was not his middle name. :box:
 

Mustard Seed

New member
godrulz said:
I think you have a Christian president and we may be getting a Christian Prime Minister today (Steven Harper). The people have rejected God and the separation of church and state seem to preclude a theocracy (let's hope a Mormon or Muslim president does not get in).

You think a Mormon would institute a theocracy. Shows how ignorant you are of LDS theology, history, and political stances.

I'm curious as to your personal views on president Bush. How do you perceive Bush godrulz?
 

no avatar

New member
Mustard Seed said:
You think a Mormon would institute a theocracy. Shows how ignorant you are of LDS theology, history, and political stances.
I am curious to hear why you think this considering Joseph Smith ran for president and was all set to institute a theocracy when he got into office, and since Brigham Young started his own religion state in Utah when they got there.
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
Mustard Seed said:
You think a Mormon would institute a theocracy. Shows how ignorant you are of LDS theology, history, and political stances.

I'm curious as to your personal views on president Bush. How do you perceive Bush godrulz?


There is something in your history or doctrine that would lend support to my concerns about Mormon's in power. The source escapes me at the moment...so hold the thought...

http://mormonconspiracy.com/theocracy.html

What's this about? You are not familiar with everything ever said or taught by your Church in its early years. Utah is also unique in its Mormon influence. Just because the current church downplays polygamy and theocracy, does not mean that the so-called 'Prophet' could not reinstitute things. Neither God nor the people would allow this, so it is a moot point. Muslims also have a goal for world domination. Christians also desire God's glory from sea to sea, but the Gospel and Church, not politics is the agent. God's visible rule will only take place when Christ returns to set up His kingdom (it will be in Jerusalem, Israel, not the USA!).

I believe Bush is an evangelical Christian. I generally think he has credibility and integrity. There probably is another side to the story. He is not always perfect nor always wise. I think he understands democracy, but does not divorce faith from public life. He wants to fulfill his mandate to have righteousness, not evil, rule the land. I do not think he has delusions of bringing in a theocracy, though some right wing people probably like the idea. I am Canadian. I do not have enough information to make an intelligent comment. Perhaps he is a fake, but I doubt it. I think the media inflames things against him. There is an anti-faith agenda from Hollywood, etc. I think there are probably some serious concerns about certain aspects of his leadership. God will judge him. I trust we can do our duty and pray for our leaders.
 

Mustard Seed

New member
godrulz said:
There is something in your history or doctrine that would lend support to my concerns about Mormon's in power. The source escapes me at the moment...so hold the thought...

http://mormonconspiracy.com/theocracy.html

What's this about? You are not familiar with everything ever said or taught by your Church in its early years.

I'm more aware than you are of such things. We believe that the meek shall inheret the earth. True the millenium will see a literal monarchy in the form of Christ as King and his Kingdom as the means of governance. So in terms of the final millenial government being a monarchy/theocracy, we openly advocate such. But in terms of a world government version of a 'hostile takeover bid' we will never do any such thing. No one will be forced into the Kingdom of God. We believe that democracy is the form of government that is sustained by God for the earth until the return of Christ. No one will be ever be forced into God's true theocracy, and if you believe that is what LDS doctrine states then you have horribly misread and misunderstood both what it says and what it means. You will find no stauncher supporters of democracy and the seperation of church and state (as intended by the US founding fathers) than you will find in devout members of our faith. I dare say that we are as much or more personaly bound and commited to freedom and democracy than any other group that's ever lived on this earth.



Utah is also unique in its Mormon influence. Just because the current church downplays polygamy and theocracy, does not mean that the so-called 'Prophet' could not reinstitute things.

Utah has never been a theocracy. The church, by definition, is a theocracy. Anyone that truly believes the God of the Bible will admit themselves subject to theocracy in at least one sense or another (unless you chose to proclaim with the Jews that crucified the Saviour "We have no King but Caesar" or the modern equivilant with regards to representative government--the ultimate confession of apostacy)

Your view of a people acting politicaly in a manner they feel to be conforming to the word of God being something that constitutes a 'theocracy', as you term it, lands you in an inescapeable position of calling, along with most of the secular liberal world, most of the worlds democracies outside Japan and western Europe, the US especialy, as being theocracies of one form or another.


Neither God nor the people would allow this, so it is a moot point.

Your thought that such would occure is indicative of your willingness to buy into alarmist conspiracy theories dependant on narrow views of out of context portions extracted carefully from history lest they reveal their real nature to the observer.

Our prophet will never attempt to force anyone against their will. They will not, I assure you, take over and/or enslave. Anyone that joins us, whether to join in our doctrinal views or simply to physicaly abide with us, will NEVER be forced to do anything they don't personaly agree to.


Muslims also have a goal for world domination. Christians also desire God's glory from sea to sea, but the Gospel and Church, not politics is the agent. God's visible rule will only take place when Christ returns to set up His kingdom (it will be in Jerusalem, Israel, not the USA!).

His Dominion will be the whole earth (NOT JUST ISRAEL). If you disagree I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.



I believe Bush is an evangelical Christian. I generally think he has credibility and integrity. There probably is another side to the story. He is not always perfect nor always wise. I think he understands democracy, but does not divorce faith from public life. He wants to fulfill his mandate to have righteousness, not evil, rule the land. I do not think he has delusions of bringing in a theocracy, though some right wing people probably like the idea. I am Canadian. I do not have enough information to make an intelligent comment. Perhaps he is a fake, but I doubt it. I think the media inflames things against him. There is an anti-faith agenda from Hollywood, etc. I think there are probably some serious concerns about certain aspects of his leadership. God will judge him. I trust we can do our duty and pray for our leaders.

I respect that view. I do not agree with your analysis of him not understanding boundaries betwixt the earhtly governments and faith. I think such a view is rooted in a distorted view of your own with regards to what is and isn't state sponsered religion. I can see you taking such a stance with the topics such as the 'faith based initiatives'. I do not agree with them. But my disagrement stems more from them being forms of socialism than it necesarily does from it being an attempt to ballance socialist/anti-religious institutions already in existance. I disagree with the method of balancing but see and respect the need for it. It would be better acheived by removing state support (essentialy socialism) from those secularist and/or anti-religious entities.
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
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I was just wondering... When Christianforums.com bans Jesus do they let him com back after a while? Or does he have to come in under the radar with a different user name?
 
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