Christian Homeschoolers Sell Daughter in Arranged Marriage

[Lon]

Um......what? :idunno:

You implied that I was forming a "scientific conclusion", and you honestly...seriously think "Both my kids go to a public school and it's awesome. They're straight-A students, have great friends, have wonderful and caring teachers, and even the principals and counselors are great people. My high school was much the same" is me doing that?

You're not making even the slightest bit of sense....at all.

Sure I am. I'm clearly questioning the way you draw conclusions and from what 'facts' you draw them. You are opinionated (means you give opinions without a lot or any facts).

I suppose if you could show where I said "all schools" then you'd have a point. But as we've seen, you lost your reading comprehension tool kit today.

:think: or you could just be a lousy reader :think:

Lon, you have some serious problems. Why you think me sharing my personal experiences = science is beyond me.

It isn't. I just said your mind "doesn't" work this way.
It really 'could' be you are a lousy reader. Either way, I hope you aren't working in science on my tax dollars.

Wait....maybe that's one of your problems here. You really don't have any idea what "science" is. Apparently you think "science" is "everything a scientist says".

No, that's not it. Again, I'm saying your mind doesn't 'think' scientifically. It is actually the opposite of, as far as my data collection of you and your comments.

You are really one screwed up person.

Because I'm a Christian? Have Any data to back it up? You think 'this' is data that backs it up? I just told you, I don't like bullies. You are a bully. I don't like bigots, you are a bigot. I don't like people who make fun of others, you make fun of others. Your target? Christians. Your contributions in this thread have nothing to do with one family, that happened to be homeschooled, that happened to have a father that was odd-man-out. You should have jumped in here and said "Hey, this is a rare and unique occasion, don't blame all home-schoolers" because that is where the data lies. You didn't, you piled on with absurdities against Christians because that's who you are. I'm screwed up? Really? I don't think so. I don't 'care' if you are screwed up or not, other than calling you on your garbage.

Wow. Off your meds today?

lain: Monkey see, monkey do. Be original. Do your OWN data collecting. This aint it.

And people like you just walk right into it, like above. Don't like being made fun of for saying stupid things? Then stop saying stupid things.

:nono: YOU. You stop.

Again you need to go and find your reading comprehension tool kit.

:nono: YOU do.

The OP started off by tying this to Christianity. I mean....it's in the headline of the news article in the OP

"Christian Homeschoolers Sell Daughter into Arranged Marriage, Give Discount Because She's "Damaged Goods""

Which has NOTHING to do with Christian schools, Christians rebelling, Christians school kids behaving badly, etc. These are ALL your rabbit trails.

Try and pay attention to the whole thread next time, rather than jumping in the middle just because one of the posters bothers you.

Make me (not that I didn't).

 

[Lon]

Because the Creationist Museum and its backing organization provides an awful lot for the case against religious educational institutions.

No it doesn't. These kids do better than their counterparts, even in science.

If there is no oversight (call it "interference" all you like, but it's the government's JOB)

No. They don't even have the resources to do it.

That there are millions of parents doing it right and a only small amount of sadistic, disgusting monsters inflicting grievous and permanent harm upon their children does not in any way lessen the need for oversight and the rule of law.

Such advocates monitoring all citizens, to ensure they never kill, never steal, never break the law. Perhaps we should all have leg bracelets that monitor all our activities? Where would you stop? It would be the "government's job."

All of us have rights and freedoms 'until' we break the law. "Then" we lose them. A monster of a human being could very well shoot me. He/she doesn't lose their freedom until 'after' they break the law, not before.

 

[Tinark]

I can't even remember the last science test I took that dealt primarily with evolution. See here. I'm not sure we need to be paying extra taxes to monitor this. For the most part, home-schooled children are higher than the national average. There is some sort of monitoring that parents do avail themselves of, to see how their kids are doing. It just isn't the state they generally go to find this. Curriculum companies help parents do assessment work and the kids can go online to take tests as well.

It's not the ones with responsible parents I'm worried about...

 

[Jose Fly]

Sure I am. I'm clearly questioning the way you draw conclusions and from what 'facts' you draw them.

So in your world, unless someone goes out and collects data according to scientific protocols and uses it to draw conclusions, they aren't allowed to express their opinions?

Do you apply this rule to everyone, or just people who you don't like and are obsessed with?

You are opinionated (means you give opinions without a lot or any facts).

GASP!!!! I express my opinions???!!! The horror!!! It's a good thing no Christians at ToL do that, because that would make you a hypocrite.

It isn't.

You just said it was. Remember your sarcastic, "Yeah, that's a scientific conclusion"? Sheesh...you can't even maintain a consistent argument from one post to the next.

Again, I'm saying your mind doesn't 'think' scientifically. It is actually the opposite of, as far as my data collection of you and your comments.

Trust me...coming from you that's a compliment. I'd be seriously worried if you were complimenting me on my scientific thinking. It'd be like aCW complimenting someone on not being obsessed.

Because I'm a Christian?

No, because you're screwed up as your posts demonstrate.

I don't like people who make fun of others, you make fun of others.

It's a good thing you've never made fun of me, otherwise you'd be a hypocrite.

Your contributions in this thread have nothing to do with one family, that happened to be homeschooled, that happened to have a father that was odd-man-out. You should have jumped in here and said "Hey, this is a rare and unique occasion, don't blame all home-schoolers" because that is where the data lies. You didn't, you piled on with absurdities against Christians because that's who you are.

I'm looking through this thread and don't see what you're talking about. My first post was a question, the second was an opinion that private religious schools can teach whatever they want, my third (which didn't appear until the third page) noted the anti-public school sentiment on Christian right-wing radio, my fourth was the same thing, my fifth was about my kids and experiences....

....so I'm trying to figure out exactly what post set you off, and I just don't see it. All I can figure is what you describe above....you just don't like me and you've let that hate cloud your thinking.

:nono: YOU. You stop.

:nono: YOU do.

Make me (not that I didn't).

I think you've been hanging out at the elementary school playground too much. You sound more like a 3rd grader than an adult.

 

[Lon]

It's not the ones with responsible parents I'm worried about...

Yeah, but if we make one conform, all then would have to. Again, we have freedoms 'until' we blow it. It is always sad to hear someone blew it

 

[Lon]

So in your world, unless someone goes out and collects data according to scientific protocols and uses it to draw conclusions, they aren't allowed to express their opinions?

Shouldn't. Your opinions should have weight to them.

Do you apply this rule to everyone, or just people who you don't like and are obsessed with?

Just you... More to follow:

GASP!!!! I express my opinions???!!! The horror!!! It's a good thing no Christians at ToL do that, because that would make you a hypocrite.

If you weren't literally going out of your way to express much much more than opinion, but disdain, mudslinging, and rabbit-trailing slams, I'd barely notice you.

You just said it was.

No, you just hide behind that façade. Remember the day you supposedly ran through your offices at work asking about Genesis? Yeah, you aren't that guy.

Remember your sarcastic, "Yeah, that's a scientific conclusion"? Sheesh...you can't even maintain a consistent argument from one post to the next.

Oh, I'm consistent, very much so. I've a better memory, read better, 'can' employ the scientific method, and don't have biases against all scientists, just you.

Trust me..[no].coming from you that's a compliment.

Yeah, I know. It goes with bigotry and hatred. Always has, always will.

I'd be seriously worried if you were complimenting me on my scientific thinking.

Doubtful.

No, because you're screwed up as your posts demonstrate.

It's a good thing you've never made fun of me, otherwise you'd be a hypocrite.

Where? I'm not laughing nor kidding.

I'm looking through this thread and don't see what you're talking about. My first post was a question, the second was an opinion that private religious schools can teach whatever they want, my third (which didn't appear until the third page) noted the anti-public school sentiment on Christian right-wing radio, my fourth was the same thing, my fifth was about my kids and experiences....

....so I'm trying to figure out exactly what post set you off, and I just don't see it. All I can figure is what you describe above....you just don't like me and you've let that hate cloud your thinking.

:nono: Don't try to put a good spin on yourself. You weren't being innocent, not at all. You came to a thread that has nothing to do with Christian schools, and used that opportunity to character assassinate, as you do often on TOL and have clearly done in the past. Your idea of 'fun' is bullying, marginalizing, bigotry, and slander and I can point out clear instances of it in thread both before and after I engaged you in it.
Oh look there:

I think you've been hanging out at the elementary school playground too much. You sound more like a 3rd grader than an adult.

What do ya know!

 

[Jose Fly]

Ok Lon, lets see if we can figure out what's really going on here.

There are, and have been, other non-Christians at ToL who are just as snarky as I am (more so in some cases), yet you don't follow them around the way you do me.

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who bully, name-call, attack, threaten, and post some of the most hateful things...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who advocate some of the most bizarre nonsense...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

But for some reason, you follow me around and complain and moan about me being here, making fun of people, and doing so for entertainment. Why? What is it that differentiates me from all the above?

 

[Lon]

Ok Lon, lets see if we can figure out what's really going on here.

There are, and have been, other non-Christians at ToL who are just as snarky as I am (more so in some cases), yet you don't follow them around the way you do me.

I didn't follow you here. I looked at a few of your 'snarky' comments that marginalize Christians. Why is it bothering me in this thread? Because this thread wasn't made for snarky comments. Buzzword is wrong, it isn't because of Christian homeschooling. It is because, Christian or not, the fathers mentioned in his life and this article, broke the law. Slapping 'Christian' on it makes it offensive. You seem to join these, where I'm trying to point out that "Christian" isn't the blame and you come in with a bigoted comment that this is precisely the problem, which is absolutely untrue. I can't change your mind, but might be able to get you to realize such is offensive. Trying then to bin other "Christians" into the mix, as if Christian schools has anything to do with a Christian breaking the law, is libelous. I'm not sure if you are aware of your negativity toward Christians as a whole, but unlike a few of the other atheists (not all, there are some good ones on here), you might be correctable. It does often portray as arrogant and bullying, however. Such comes with your high opinion of yourself, and your low opinion of Christians in general (we've had this conversation before).

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who bully, name-call, attack, threaten, and post some of the most hateful things...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

:doh: I'm not sure if you are going to put two and two together here, on what you just said. It is this mindset, that bothers me. I can't change it, but I haven't been thinking I would need to avoid all threads you ever post in. I may just have to place you on ignore, though I don't generally do that. I just 'looks like' you are mean, and a bully of Christians. I HAVE gotten into it with a few of these Christians you mention as well. It isn't just you, but yeah, this is indeed a pet-peeve of mine, Christian or nonChristian.

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who advocate some of the most bizarre nonsense...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

Again, put two and two together here. I'm not against 'stupidity' or the handicapped. Some people really don't know what they are saying or doing on here.

But for some reason, you follow me around

Not following you around, although I am dogged about the problem, when I see it.

and complain and moan about me being here

:nono: not about your presence on TOL

making fun of people, and doing so for entertainment.

Yep. It isn't just a personality trait, but a behavior, else I'd not complain. Your 'fun' seems to take delight at every opportunity, to malign BLANK (Christians). Because I've taught a lot of the kids you are talking about, yes, I've seen some of them go off the deep end, but I'm protective of them, too. It isn't just the school, but often the strict environment of parenting, regardless of religious affiliation. So for you, another bully-good-time-thread but one where I'm trying to discuss a difficult subject without marginalizing Christians, in the process. I believe Buzzword out of balance, and understandably so. The answer is not more government control, nor is it to fault "Christian" simply because of the association.

Such is frustrating, whether you mean it in sincerity or worse, insincerity and making fun.

Why? What is it that differentiates me from all the above?

You can't see it? Yet?

 

[Rusha]

But for some reason, you follow me around and complain and moan about me being here, making fun of people, and doing so for entertainment. Why? What is it that differentiates me from all the above?

You have a tendency to go out of your way to be snarky specifically to Christians OR anyone who disagrees with your POV.

 

[Simon Baker]

You have a tendency to go out of your way to be snarky specifically to Christians OR anyone who disagrees with your POV.

I Notice A Tendency As Well. Pretty Obvious

 

[Simon Baker]

My FIRST choice (from my own experience) would be to utilize private, Christian schooling. Though, as stated, many people cannot afford these schools.

I am also not going to state that ALL public schools are bad or good. It depends on the area, board members and faculty.

Homeschooling is perfectly acceptable IF the child is learning at the same standard he/she would elsewhere. Like all of these choices, it comes down to parenting and motives.

My motive for utilizing Christian school had to do with being an overprotective mom who wanted my children in a place with stricter rules and less children.

Very Observant. Talent Abounds. Tactful, Thoughtful, NEUTRAL. Pointing Out Where Others Are Slightly Mistaken. Job Security, No Work Shortage. No Real Position. "I" Statements. I Know Where They Teach That

 

[Simon Baker]

Ok Lon, lets see if we can figure out what's really going on here.

There are, and have been, other non-Christians at ToL who are just as snarky as I am (more so in some cases), yet you don't follow them around the way you do me.

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who bully, name-call, attack, threaten, and post some of the most hateful things...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

There are, and have been, Christians at ToL who advocate some of the most bizarre nonsense...all in the name of Christianity, yet you don't follow them around chastising them for making Christians look bad.

But for some reason, you follow me around and complain and moan about me being here, making fun of people, and doing so for entertainment. Why? What is it that differentiates me from all the above?

Who ? Rusha ? No Way ! Remember, Superiority Must Be Proven For Some. They Cannot Help Themselves

 

[Jose Fly]

I didn't follow you here. I looked at a few of your 'snarky' comments that marginalize Christians.

Which ones bothered you so much?

Why is it bothering me in this thread? Because this thread wasn't made for snarky comments.

What snarky comments are you referring to?

Buzzword is wrong, it isn't because of Christian homeschooling. It is because, Christian or not, the fathers mentioned in his life and this article, broke the law. Slapping 'Christian' on it makes it offensive. You seem to join these, where I'm trying to point out that "Christian" isn't the blame

What's odd though is how different your responses to BW are compared to your responses to me. With me you went straight into personal attacks, whereas with BW you didn't. Not only that, but a few other posters agreed with my posts in this thread, yet you didn't personally attack them either.

So there's something else going on here (besides the contents of my posts in this thread).

and you come in with a bigoted comment that this is precisely the problem, which is absolutely untrue.

Where did I say that?

I'm not sure if you are aware of your negativity toward Christians as a whole, but unlike a few of the other atheists (not all, there are some good ones on here), you might be correctable. It does often portray as arrogant and bullying, however. Such comes with your high opinion of yourself, and your low opinion of Christians in general (we've had this conversation before).

So basically your problem with me is my self confidence? You'd be happier if I were more insecure?

I'm not sure if you are going to put two and two together here, on what you just said. It is this mindset, that bothers me. I can't change it, but I haven't been thinking I would need to avoid all threads you ever post in. I may just have to place you on ignore, though I don't generally do that. I just 'looks like' you are mean, and a bully of Christians. I HAVE gotten into it with a few of these Christians you mention as well. It isn't just you, but yeah, this is indeed a pet-peeve of mine, Christian or nonChristian.

Yet you don't seem to be as focused on your fellow Christians' posts as you do mine. Why?

Again, put two and two together here. I'm not against 'stupidity' or the handicapped. Some people really don't know what they are saying or doing on here.

Do you see how that comes across as a double standard? You're perfectly willing to look the other way when your fellow Christians act a certain way, but should I do something similar, you feel compelled to jump in and start attacking.

IOW, Christians can post however and whatever they want and you don't really mind that much. But if I post something that rubs you the wrong way, you do mind....a lot.

Not following you around, although I am dogged about the problem, when I see it.

Sure you do. When I see your name as the most recent post in a thread I'm in, I immediately know it's going to be you complaining about me being here, plus a handful of personal attacks (either about my profession or my family).

not about your presence on TOL

Then stop questioning why I'm here.

Yep. It isn't just a personality trait, but a behavior, else I'd not complain.

Yet you don't complain about the same behaviors from others, which means something else is going on.

Your 'fun' seems to take delight at every opportunity, to malign BLANK (Christians). Because I've taught a lot of the kids you are talking about, yes, I've seen some of them go off the deep end, but I'm protective of them, too. It isn't just the school, but often the strict environment of parenting, regardless of religious affiliation. So for you, another bully-good-time-thread but one where I'm trying to discuss a difficult subject without marginalizing Christians, in the process. I believe Buzzword out of balance, and understandably so. The answer is not more government control, nor is it to fault "Christian" simply because of the association.

Such is frustrating, whether you mean it in sincerity or worse, insincerity and making fun.

You can't see it? Yet?

Ah.....there it is! You have a fear/insecurity about your students and their salvation and people like me are a threat to it. So, to you, I represent the sort of person and/or world that you fear will someday steer some of your students away from Christianity.

You see the same world and trends that I do...young people are moving away from Christianity in surprising numbers. Some of those are likely your students. Not only that, but the data also shows that people like me (the "nones") are on the rise, especially among the youth. All that scares you, so you express that fear by lashing out at me, because to you I am a personification of the trend away from your faith and the forces behind it.

I suppose in one sense I should take this as a compliment. If you saw me as truly incompetent and ineffective in arguing against Christianity, you wouldn't even bother with me or my posts. You'd treat me like I treated Mark Seasigh....just another nut on the internet. But the fact that you spend so much time and effort trying to counter my posts and attack me personally, as well as try to get me to leave ToL, is a clear indication that you see me as a legitimate threat.

And we all know that you only see someone as a legitimate threat if you think they're good at what they do.

So.....thanks! :chuckle:

 

[Jose Fly]

You have a tendency to go out of your way to be snarky specifically to Christians OR anyone who disagrees with your POV.

Oh, I definitely do. But IMO, snarkiness is far lower on the scale of concern than all the hate I see from Christians here.

 

[Lon]

You have a tendency to go out of your way to be snarky specifically to Christians OR anyone who disagrees with your POV.

Condescending. It is beyond the schoolyard snark.

I Notice A Tendency As Well. Pretty Obvious

Yes, and:

OTOH, some of us knew that if you wanted to party and score with a girl, your best bet was to get invited to a party thrown by kids from any of the religious schools. They were always the wildest kids, probably because that's where parents with money sent 'em when they started getting into trouble.

Oh definitely (although my experience comes from college). Most of us guys knew to seek out the girls who came from restrictive upbringing and/or had strict dads.

This too. It has predatory Sleaze-ball written all over you.

Which ones bothered you so much?

These were some of our Christian daughters, our Christian nieces, our Christian students you were preying upon.

We Christian fathers, Christian uncles, and Christian teachers will have long memories of predatory sleaze-balls. You really shouldn't be this clueless.

 

[Rusha]

Oh, I definitely do. But IMO, snarkiness is far lower on the scale of concern than all the hate I see from Christians here.

They don't *all* hate. They don't *all* snark. Not everyone is deserving of civility ... OR disdain.

 

[Jose Fly]

This too. It has predatory Sleaze-ball written all over you.

So all teenage boys who try and hook up with teenage girls are sleazy predators? :idunno:

These were some of our Christian daughters, our Christian nieces, our Christian students you were preying upon.

We Christian fathers, Christian uncles, and Christian teachers will have long memories of predatory sleaze-balls. You really shouldn't be this clueless.

First, I promise you any of the girls we actually hooked up with were not Christians. Oh, I'm sure their parents thought they were, but if they'd actually seen what their daughters were doing (and instigating), they'd have gotten an uncomfortable dose of reality.

Again we see your fears and insecurities at play. Me simply saying that when we were kids, we tried to get into the religious school parties because they were the wildest immediately gets twisted in your mind as me preying on innocent Christian girls.

It never even occurs to you that maybe....just maybe...the girls were just as eager to party and fool around as we were. Nope, that doesn't fit into your fear-based narrative.

 

[Jose Fly]

They don't *all* hate. They don't *all* snark. Not everyone is deserving of civility ... OR disdain.

I know. I didn't mean all the Christians at ToL, but I am frequently stunned at the amount of hate expressed by Christians here. I've even sent a few of my Christian friends here to "lurk" and they unanimously came back with the same shocked reactions.

 

[Lon]

So basically your problem with me is my self confidence?

No, I have it myself. It is rather what you do with it.

Yet you don't seem to be as focused on your fellow Christians' posts as you do mine. Why?

Do you see how that comes across as a double standard? You're perfectly willing to look the other way when your fellow Christians act a certain way, but should I do something similar, you feel compelled to jump in and start attacking.

Yeah, bullying is like that. Ask a few of the bullies. Ask them if Lon ever confronted them.

IOW, Christians can post however and whatever they want and you don't really mind that much. But if I post something that rubs you the wrong way, you do mind....a lot.

lain:

Sure you do. When I see your name as the most recent post in a thread I'm in, I immediately know it's going to be you complaining about me being here, plus a handful of personal attacks (either about my profession or my family).

Never mentioned your family nor ever would. I 'asked' questions. You inadvertently project my comments to you, to them, and shouldn't.

Then stop questioning why I'm here.

No.

Ah.....there it is! You have a fear/insecurity about your students and their salvation and people like me are a threat to it. So, to you, I represent the sort of person and/or world that you fear will someday steer some of your students away from Christianity.

You see the same world and trends that I do...young people are moving away from Christianity in surprising numbers. Some of those are likely your students. Not only that, but the data also shows that people like me (the "nones") are on the rise, especially among the youth. All that scares you, so you express that fear by lashing out at me, because to you I am a personification of the trend away from your faith and the forces behind it.

I suppose in one sense I should take this as a compliment. If you saw me as truly incompetent and ineffective in arguing against Christianity, you wouldn't even bother with me or my posts. You'd treat me like I treated Mark Seasigh....just another nut on the internet. But the fact that you spend so much time and effort trying to counter my posts and attack me personally, as well as try to get me to leave ToL, is a clear indication that you see me as a legitimate threat.

:nono: You are dense....and egocentric. The 'into yourself' ego is a bit much. You 'display' one of the chaffing behaviors, even if you can't seem to realize what it is that offends.

And we all know that you only see someone as a legitimate threat if you think they're good at what they do.

So.....thanks! :chuckle:

Yeah, that's it

 

[Lon]

So all teenage boys who try and hook up with teenage girls are sleazy predators? :idunno:

Means you slept around "Targeting Christians." Yes, sleazy.

First, I promise you any of the girls we actually hooked up with were not Christians. Oh, I'm sure their parents thought they were, but if they'd actually seen what their daughters were doing (and instigating), they'd have gotten an uncomfortable dose of reality.

It isn't an 'uncomfortable' dose. It is you, looking specifically for these kinds of girls.

Again we see your fears and insecurities at play. Me simply saying that when we were kids, we tried to get into the religious school parties because they were the wildest immediately gets twisted in your mind as me preying on innocent Christian girls.

Eh, "Targeted."

It never even occurs to you that maybe....just maybe...the girls were just as eager to party and fool around as we were. Nope, that doesn't fit into your fear-based narrative.

So, at least Christians are good for one thing, when you are targeting.
I believe that actually did occur to me. It isn't fear based. My daughters can fend for themselves they have my # on speed-dial. They would have called you a sleaze-ball, way before I ever thought to do so. When you prey upon, and target a certain kind of girl, for only a certain kind of thing, you are a sleaze-ball.