Christian Azazel Atonement Theory

[daqq]

This came up elsewhere and deserves a thread of its own:

Two little horns like a lambkin but speaks like a dragon . . .
Consuming too much shaggy-satyr scapegoat wandering in the desert of Nod.

Two little horns like a lambkin but speaks like a dragon . . .
Consuming too much shaggy-satyr scapegoat wandering in the desert of Nod.

And one more thing... I know you are a Jehovah's Witness or SDA of prior. Your butchering of the scapegoat meaning is kin to their theology. Ellen G White is a super advocate of this idea.

Nice ERROR!!!!

Christ became our "Azazel".... 2 Cor. 5:21

So, good Job calling Jesus Satan!

I do not generally appreciate call-out threads of any kind but the poster who said theses things to me above herein has already made several call-out threads of his own, (one of which included me in the opening post, calling me out, and summoning me to his thread). Therefore, in the Spirit of Truth, and in the spirit of "iron sharpening iron", may we dig down to the truth of these matters? The poster above states that "Christ became our Azazel", (and quotes 2 Cor 5:21 as his proof text), and that I did a "good Job calling Jesus Satan", but is this poster correct with his accusation? I of course say no. So the very atonement of your own soul may depend on who is correct and who is not; and who has the scripture to defend what they say, and who does not. Who among us is willing to believe what the scripture actually says? I will post my response from that thread in my next reply so as to keep this top post from being too large. The response which follows below was originally posted here.

 

[daqq]

Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)>
Your butchering of the scapegoat meaning is kin to their theology. Ellen G White is a super advocate of this idea.

Christ became our "Azazel"....

So, good Job calling Jesus Satan!

Your depraved atonement theology is nothing more than theory based on Trinitarian flesh minded physical God-Man dogma from the traditions of men and outside the scripture. You are eating scapegoat with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, Yeshua Bar-Abbas, (Matthew 27:17 [Western Texts]), which you found in your desert wanderings in the land of Nod with Kain your brother, (for whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, just as Kain, who slew his brother because his deeds were upright in heart). When you say "Jesus is our Azazel" you blaspheme yet again. Azazel is a well known demon from the Book of 1Enoch which you probably also foolishly reject. I do not even like using the name "Jehovah", so I do not often quote Tanakh from the ASV, but I quote it from the Torah here because it recognizes the fact that Azazel is not the "scapegoat" but rather indeed a personal pronoun, (proper name).

Leviticus 16:8-10 ASV
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; [H8163 sa`iyr] one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel.
9 And Aaron shall present the goat [H8163 sa`iyr] upon which the lot fell for Jehovah, and offer him for a sin-offering.
10 But the goat, [H8163 sa`iyr] on which the lot fell for Azazel, shall be set alive before Jehovah, to make atonement for him, [at a later unknown appointed time] to send him away for Azazel into the wilderness.

The sa`iyr-shaggy-goat is not Azazel, but rather, the goat is sent away with all the sins of the congregation upon its head to-for Azazel, the demon king of the desert wilderness; and his head is indeed "mortally wounded" because Ahron and the kohanim which followed after him were to place their hands upon its head and confess all the sins of the congregation before sending it away into the desert to-for Azazel, (Lev 16:21). But every offering that may be eaten or consumed by the congregation is commanded to be brought unto the Door of the Tabernacle, (and who is it that calls himself "the Door"?). This is recorded in the very next chapter of Leviticus and the same word for goat, (sa`iyr), is employed with the meaning of a satyr or demon-devil in that passage:

Leviticus 17:3-7 KJV
3 What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5 To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, [H8163 sa`iyr] after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

Poor partially blind Ephraim has refused to bring his offering to the one whose name is the Door. Should the congregation partake or eat of his offering from and of himself right here in this thread? I will certainly not eat thereof because it was not brought to Messiah, the one whose name is the Door of the Mishkan-Tabernacle, and thus his offering is not approved by way of the Testimony of the Father in His holy Torah which is His Word. Poor, poor, Ephraim, he should not have abolished the Torah and Word of the Father from his heart, mind, and soul: now he is cut off from the congregation.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...le-of-MADism&p=4928601&viewfull=1#post4928601

 

[daqq]

Matthew 27:17 W/H [NA27 Variants]
17 συνηγμένων οὖν αὐτῶν εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ Πειλᾶτος / Πιλᾶτος Τίνα θέλετε ἀπολύσω ὑμῖν, [Ἰησοῦν] τὸν Βαραββᾶν ἢ Ἰησοῦν τὸν λεγόμενον Χριστόν;
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/27-17.htm

Matthew 27:17 W/H Variant Reading
17 Therefore being gathered together, Pilate said to them, Whom do you wish that I release unto you? Yeshua who is Bar-Abba, or Yeshua who is being called Χριστόν-Anointed one?

Bar = Aramaic for "Son"
Abba = "Father"
Bar-Abba = "Son of (a-the) Father"

And Bar-Abbas was a murderer who was released and αφιημι-sent away into the desert . . .

Matthew 9:2-7
2 And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on a cot: and Yeshua, seeing their belief, said to the paralytic, "Teknon", (that is, child), "Take heart, your sins are αφιενται-sent away!"
3 And behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, "He blasphemes!" (for only the Kohen Gadol is vested with the authority from on High to send away sins: and that is only once per year, at Yom Kippurim, the Day of Atonements).
4 And Yeshua perceiving their thoughts, said, "Wherefore do you think mischief in your hearts?
5 For which is better? to say, 'Your sins are αφιενται-sent away'? or to say, 'Arise, and walk'?
6 But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the Land to αφιεναι-send away sins", (then he said to the paralytic), 'Arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house!'"
7 And he rose up, departing to his house.

So the one that is αφιημι-sent away into the dry-arid places of the desert wilderness and land of wandering, (land of Nod, for Nod means wandering), that one has all your sins upon his mortally wounded head: two horns like a lamb, and speaks like a dragon. For when the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he traverses through dry-arid places seeking rest; and finding none, he says, I will return unto my house from where I came out. And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished. Then goes he, and associates in league unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself: and they enter in, and dwell there, and the last state of that man is worse off than the first, (Luke 11:24-26).

John 5:12-14
12 Then asked they him, Who is the man which said to you, "Take up your mattress, and walk?"
13 And he that was healed knew not who it was: for Yeshua had withdrawn himself, a multitude being in that place.
14 After these things Yeshua found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made whole: sin no more, lest something more evil come unto you!"

 

[daqq]

Matthew 9:2-7
2 And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on a cot: and Yeshua, seeing their belief, said to the paralytic, "Teknon", (that is, child), "Take heart, your sins are αφιενται-sent away!"
3 And behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, "He blasphemes!" (for only the Kohen Gadol is vested with the authority from on High to send away sins: and that is only once per year, at Yom Kippurim, the Day of Atonements).
4 And Yeshua perceiving their thoughts, said, "Wherefore do you think mischief in your hearts?
5 For which is better? to say, 'Your sins are αφιενται-sent away'? or to say, 'Arise, and walk'?
6 But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the Land to αφιεναι-send away sins", (then he said to the paralytic), 'Arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house!'"
7 And he rose up, departing to his house.

So the one that is αφιημι-sent away into the dry-arid places of the desert wilderness and land of wandering, (land of Nod, for Nod means wandering), that one has all your sins upon his mortally wounded head: two horns like a lamb, and speaks like a dragon. For when the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he traverses through dry-arid places seeking rest; and finding none, he says, I will return unto my house from where I came out. And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished. Then goes he, and associates in league unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself: and they enter in, and dwell there, and the last state of that man is worse off than the first, (Luke 11:24-26).

John 5:12-14
12 Then asked they him, Who is the man which said to you, "Take up your mattress, and walk?"
13 And he that was healed knew not who it was: for Yeshua had withdrawn himself, a multitude being in that place.
14 After these things Yeshua found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made whole: sin no more, lest something more evil come unto you!"

Once upon a kippurim there was a priest of Elohim; a man which had not yet been revealed to his own, but was indeed being used of Elohim to work good works, healings, cures, good will, and peace toward all his brethren to the glory of Elohim. One day the priest of Elohim came into his own beloved city, and they brought to him a paralytic man lying on a cot: and the priest of Elohim, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, Take heart, teknon, (young child, for he was not yet a son of the kingdom), Your sins are aphiemi-sent away. But hearing this saying there were certain of the Scribes present which said within themselves, That is blasphemy! (for only the High Priest of the great city was vested with the power and authority from on High to send away the sins of the people: and that was only once in the year at the Great Day of Yom Kippurim Atonements). So the priest of Elohim, perceiving their thoughts, said to them, Why do you think mischief in your hearts? For which is better? to say, Your sins are aphiemi-sent away? or to say, Rise up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the earth to aphiemi-send away sins, (then he says to the paralytic), Rise up, take up your cot, and go to your house! And the paralytic man arose, cured, and departed to the house of Elohim to give thanks. But the day wherein this occurred was Shabbat, yet he took up his cot as the Commander of the Covenant had ordered him. And as he approached nigh unto the temple, the elders therefore said unto him, It is the day of Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your mattress! But the healed man answered them, saying, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your mattress and walk. Then they began to interrogate him, and said to him, What man is it that said unto you, Take up your mattress and walk? And he that was healed knew not who it was, for the priest of Elohim had withdrawn himself, a multitude being in that place. But afterward the priest of Elohim found the cured man in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are become whole; sin no more, lest something more evil come unto you!

And after two great days it came to pass that there was certain sect of talmidim that heard these words of the High Priest of Elohim, saying, "Sin no more, lest something more evil come unto you!" And they besought an answer from the Most High, in His Word, as to what this more evil thing might be insomuch that they might also know the signs. And the Most High sent a messenger to show them things to come; and the messenger brought into remembrance the words of the High Priest, which said unto the them, If I with the Finger of Elohim do cast out daemonion, no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you! When a strong armed man guards his palace, his goods are in peace: but when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divides his spoils. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he traverses through dry-arid places seeking rest. And finding none, he says, I will return to my house from where I came out. And when he comes, he finds the house swept and put in order. Then goes he, and associates in league unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself: and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last state of that man is worse off than the first.

However, there were some talmidim which believed not this word, for they said within themselves, "All of my sins are aphiemi-pardoned-forgiven! I am saved!" But those talmidim who believed this word said within themselves, "All of my sins are aphiemi-sent away upon the mortally wounded head of my old man twin goat to-for Azazel: but if they are sent away to wander in the arid places of the desert then they can return if I willfully continue in the sins of my old man nature!"
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111595-Yeshua-Says&p=4397764&viewfull=1#post4397764

And so there came to be a division in the sect. :chuckle:

:sheep:

 

[Veritas veritate]

Your depraved atonement theology is nothing more than theory based on Trinitarian flesh minded physical God-Man dogma from the traditions of men and outside the scripture. You are eating scapegoat with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, Yeshua Bar-Abbas, (Matthew 27:17 [Western Texts]), which you found in your desert wanderings in the land of Nod with Kain your brother, (for whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, just as Kain, who slew his brother because his deeds were upright in heart). When you say "Jesus is our Azazel" you blaspheme yet again. Azazel is a well known demon from the Book of 1Enoch which you probably also foolishly reject. I do not even like using the name "Jehovah", so I do not often quote Tanakh from the ASV, but I quote it from the Torah here because it recognizes the fact that Azazel is not the "scapegoat" but rather indeed a personal pronoun, (proper name).

Leviticus 16:8-10 ASV
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; [H8163 sa`iyr] one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel.
9 And Aaron shall present the goat [H8163 sa`iyr] upon which the lot fell for Jehovah, and offer him for a sin-offering.
10 But the goat, [H8163 sa`iyr] on which the lot fell for Azazel, shall be set alive before Jehovah, to make atonement for him, [at a later unknown appointed time] to send him away for Azazel into the wilderness.

The problem that I find with your perspective here is that it hinges on Azazel being a personal pronoun (though I think you meant proper noun). If you look at the grammar within the text you will find that Azazel is only used only once as a proper noun. Furthermore, it also shows a lack of fundamental understanding in how lots were made. Those who have translated many of the modern versions have also missed this as well. I have taken the time to correct the mistakes in the box below.

(Leviticus 16:8-10) And Aaron will cast lots upon the two goats; one lot: Eternal One, and the other lot: Scapegoat. (9) And Aaron will bring the goat upon which the Eternal One's lot fell, and offer him as a sin offering. (10) But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, will be presented alive before the Eternal One, to make an atonement with him, to let him go as a scapegoat into the wilderness.

In Hebrew culture, lots were often used to determine many things. A lot was usually a piece of wood, stone, or metal (which is actually the meaning of the Hebrew word translated as "lot") that would have an inscription carved into them to identify what the lot represented. In this case, verse 8 tells us the inscription that was carved into each lot. One would have "Eternal One" carved into it and the other would have "Scapegoat (Azazel)" carved into it. Consequently, this is the only time that the word "scapegoat (azazel)" is used as a proper noun, as it identifies the lot in verse 8, not the goat. In verses 9 and 10 we have to look carefully at the word order to determine the context in which "scapegoat (azazel)" is being used. Notice that in verse 9 it says, "The goat upon which the Eternal One's lot fell," whereas in verse 10 it says, "But the goat, upon which the lot fell." This tells the reader that the word "scapegoat" that follows is no longer being used as a proper noun. From that we know that it should be, "But the goat upon which the lot fell to be a scapegoat, will be presented alive before the Eternal One, to let him go as a scapegoat into the wilderness." Furthermore, once we take a look at the complete scope of the two goats, we can see that the whole thing together typifies Jesus the Messiah and his death and resurrection. This can be clearly seen by the events that took place after the resurrection of Jesus.

Notice in John 20:17 that Jesus tells Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to the Father. In other words, he was not yet presented alive before the Eternal one, to be let go as a scapegoat into the wilderness (back into the physical realm); besides that, he also needed to place his own blood on the mercy seat in Heaven. Also note that Jesus tells Mary to say to his disciples that he has ascended to the Father, which he would do sometime within the 8 days between his conversation with Mary and showing up in the room to Thomas. We know that it was done within that time because it was then that Jesus told Thomas to touch his wounds (John 20:27).

The sa`iyr-shaggy-goat is not Azazel, but rather, the goat is sent away with all the sins of the congregation upon its head to-for Azazel, the demon king of the desert wilderness; and his head is indeed "mortally wounded" because Ahron and the kohanim which followed after him were to place their hands upon its head and confess all the sins of the congregation before sending it away into the desert to-for Azazel, (Lev 16:21). But every offering that may be eaten or consumed by the congregation is commanded to be brought unto the Door of the Tabernacle, (and who is it that calls himself "the Door"?). This is recorded in the very next chapter of Leviticus and the same word for goat, (sa`iyr), is employed with the meaning of a satyr or demon-devil in that passage

First, you cannot employ the contextual meaning of a word in one passage to be the same meaning of the same word in a different context. If that was the case, then both goats that the lots were cast upon would really be demons by that logic, and Esau would have been a demon man, because it is the same word that is used for "hairy."

Second, that word is only translated as devils twice, and both times it is in reference to idols. Remember, the Children of Israel came from Egypt where the worshiping and sacrificing to idols were common. Goats and calves were the most common idols made and worshiped in Egypt, and Israel has been known to worship them on more than one occasion...

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

This came up elsewhere and deserves a thread of its own:





I do not generally appreciate call-out threads of any kind but the poster who said theses things to me above herein has already made several call-out threads of his own, (one of which included me in the opening post, calling me out, and summoning me to his thread). Therefore, in the Spirit of Truth, and in the spirit of "iron sharpening iron", may we dig down to the truth of these matters? The poster above states that "Christ became our Azazel", (and quotes 2 Cor 5:21 as his proof text), and that I did a "good Job calling Jesus Satan", but is this poster correct with his accusation? I of course say no. So the very atonement of your own soul may depend on who is correct and who is not; and who has the scripture to defend what they say, and who does not. Who among us is willing to believe what the scripture actually says? I will post my response from that thread in my next reply so as to keep this top post from being too large. The response which follows below was originally posted here.

"Propitiation" Atonement. 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:21

"Scape Goat" Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13; 1 Peter 2:22-24; 1 Peter 3:18; Galatians 3:13; 1 Cor. 1:30; Isaiah 53:4-6; Romans 5:19; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 4:25;

Matthew 12:22-37 ... Be careful [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]

I'm warning you! Jeremiah 23:26

 

[daqq]

The problem that I find with your perspective here is that it hinges on Azazel being a personal pronoun (though I think you meant proper noun). If you look at the grammar within the text you will find that Azazel is only used only once as a proper noun. Furthermore, it also shows a lack of fundamental understanding in how lots were made. Those who have translated many of the modern versions have also missed this as well. I have taken the time to correct the mistakes in the box below.

(Leviticus 16:8-10) And Aaron will cast lots upon the two goats; one lot: Eternal One, and the other lot: Scapegoat. (9) And Aaron will bring the goat upon which the Eternal One's lot fell, and offer him as a sin offering. (10) But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, will be presented alive before the Eternal One, to make an atonement with him, to let him go as a scapegoat into the wilderness.

In Hebrew culture, lots were often used to determine many things. A lot was usually a piece of wood, stone, or metal (which is actually the meaning of the Hebrew word translated as "lot") that would have an inscription carved into them to identify what the lot represented. In this case, verse 8 tells us the inscription that was carved into each lot. One would have "Eternal One" carved into it and the other would have "Scapegoat (Azazel)" carved into it. Consequently, this is the only time that the word "scapegoat (azazel)" is used as a proper noun, as it identifies the lot in verse 8, not the goat. In verses 9 and 10 we have to look carefully at the word order to determine the context in which "scapegoat (azazel)" is being used. Notice that in verse 9 it says, "The goat upon which the Eternal One's lot fell," whereas in verse 10 it says, "But the goat, upon which the lot fell." This tells the reader that the word "scapegoat" that follows is no longer being used as a proper noun. From that we know that it should be, "But the goat upon which the lot fell to be a scapegoat, will be presented alive before the Eternal One, to let him go as a scapegoat into the wilderness." Furthermore, once we take a look at the complete scope of the two goats, we can see that the whole thing together typifies Jesus the Messiah and his death and resurrection. This can be clearly seen by the events that took place after the resurrection of Jesus.

Notice in John 20:17 that Jesus tells Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to the Father. In other words, he was not yet presented alive before the Eternal one, to be let go as a scapegoat into the wilderness (back into the physical realm); besides that, he also needed to place his own blood on the mercy seat in Heaven. Also note that Jesus tells Mary to say to his disciples that he has ascended to the Father, which he would do sometime within the 8 days between his conversation with Mary and showing up in the room to Thomas. We know that it was done within that time because it was then that Jesus told Thomas to touch his wounds (John 20:27).


First, you cannot employ the contextual meaning of a word in one passage to be the same meaning of the same word in a different context. If that was the case, then both goats that the lots were cast upon would really be demons by that logic, and Esau would have been a demon man, because it is the same word that is used for "hairy."

Second, that word is only translated as devils twice, and both times it is in reference to idols. Remember, the Children of Israel came from Egypt where the worshiping and sacrificing to idols were common. Goats and calves were the most common idols made and worshiped in Egypt, and Israel has been known to worship them on more than one occasion...

Correct, Esau is an hairy one, (Gen 27:11 - sa`iyr, shaggy-goat, goat, faun, satyr, devil), and he is in the allegory your twin "old man" sin nature, like a Grecian goat coming from the shadowy shades of the west over the land, not touching the ground, a prince of the power of the air, and a likened to demon with your sins upon its head when your first dominion is broken and divided to the four winds, (until a latter appointed time of final atonement when your old man goes into destruction). The moment all the sins are placed upon the head of the goat chosen by lot to-for Azazel that goat is made unclean; it does not matter which one was chosen by lot or that they were spotless twins before the sins were placed on the head of the one sent away: once the sins of the congregation are placed upon the head of the one sent away it is unclean. That cannot be a representation of Messiah Yeshua who according to the writer of Hebrews will appear the second time without sin; and the author makes that statement in the middle of a discourse on this very subject matter so that everyone should know that Messiah is not the so-called scapegoat who was sent away to Azazel the demon king of the desert. The goat is not Azazel but clearly sent away to-for Azazel. There are no sins of the people placed on the head of Azazel but rather on the head of the goat sent away to-for Azazel.

However in 1Enoch all the sins are ascribed and imputed to the demon Azazel for teaching all such things to mankind. The goat therefore is not Azazel but rather sent away to Azazel who taught mankind such practices to begin with. To equate Yeshua with the goat of departure is to essentially say that Yeshua is your sins and you are sending him off to Azazel where he came from. This is why the poster of the opposing position from the OP quoted 2Cor 5:21, for he wrongly interprets that passage literally as if to say that "Jesus literally became his sins and switched places with him." It is a misunderstanding of a single verse that has been misapplied: the people are not their sins, rather the sins are sent away. The one upon whose head your sins are sent away is not Yeshua but rather your old man unclean spirit. Messiah bearing sins of the people as Kohen is not the same thing as a goat with all the sins upon its head. In this case Messiah is the Kohen, not the goat, for it is the responsibility of the Kohen to place the sins of the people upon the head of the goat. The Kohen therefore does indeed bear the sins of the people, just as Ahron, but this bearing of the sins is only temporary, that is, long enough to place them upon the head of the scapegoat so as to be sent away into the desert to Azazel, (and then destruction). This is precisely what Yeshua is doing in Matthew 9:2-7 quoted previously above.

PS - Yes, proper noun, (sorry ).

 

[daqq]

"Propitiation" Atonement. 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:21

"Scape Goat" Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13; 1 Peter 2:22-24; 1 Peter 3:18; Galatians 3:13; 1 Cor. 1:30; Isaiah 53:4-6; Romans 5:19; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 4:25;

Matthew 12:22-37 ... Be careful @daqq

I'm warning you! Jeremiah 23:26

What is this again with you warning me and quoting Jer 23:26? You are again insinuating that I am a liar. That is precisely why your doctrine is being destroyed. Do you not remember the warning you yourself received? If you do not actually have scripture to back up what you say then you should not be judging others but rather doing as the Master says and treating others as you would like to be treated. You show once again, by judging me, exactly how you would like to be treated; and so shall you be treated.

But as for all your quotes you need to be able to expound them and make your case rather than simply spewing out a bunch of passage chapter and verse references and saying they make you right. You clearly do not understand what you read because all of those passages you quoted, which make references to a sacrifice for sins, have nothing to do with the goat sent away to Azazel. The goat that is sent away into the desert to-for Azazel is NOT sacrificed: neither sacrificed, nor eaten, nor partaken of. Its blood is never shed except in tradition where it was thrown over a rocky cliff. And do you know why that tradition came to be? Because of the possibility of the CATASTROPHIC implications of the goat wandering back into the camp with all the sins of the people upon its mortally wounded head. Therefore, as I said, the author of Hebrews says this:

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:28 ASV
28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation.

Messiah appears the second time WITHOUT SIN, APART FROM SIN, and this statement is right in the midst of the discourse on Yom Kippurim, (Hebrews chapters nine and ten). There is no way this author imagined, as you do, that "Jesus became his Azazel". And now I'm warning you: your warnings are empty because you do not know the scripture. :chuckle:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What is this again with you warning me and quoting Jer 23:26?

Spoiler

You are again insinuating that I am a liar. That is precisely why your doctrine is being destroyed. Do you not remember the warning you yourself received? If you do not actually have scripture to back up what you say then you should not be judging others but rather doing as the Master says and treating others as you would like to be treated. You show once again, by judging me, exactly how you would like to be treated; and so shall you be treated.

But as for all your quotes you need to be able to expound them and make your case rather than simply spewing out a bunch of passage chapter and verse references and saying they make you right. You clearly do not understand what you read because all of those passages you quoted, which make references to a sacrifice for sins, have nothing to do with the goat sent away to Azazel. The goat that is sent away into the desert to-for Azazel is NOT sacrificed: neither sacrificed, nor eaten, nor partaken of. Its blood is never shed except in tradition where it was thrown over a rocky cliff. And do you know why that tradition came to be? Because of the possibility of the CATASTROPHIC implications of the goat wandering back into the camp with all the sins of the people upon its mortally wounded head. Therefore, as I said, the author of Hebrews says this:

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:28 ASV
28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation.

Messiah appears the second time WITHOUT SIN, APART FROM SIN, and this statement is right in the midst of the discourse on Yom Kippurim, (Hebrews chapters nine and ten). There is no way this author imagined, as you do, that "Jesus became his Azazel". And now I'm warning you: your warnings are empty because you do not know the scripture. :chuckle:

You are accidentally calling Satan our Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13 is clear who bore our "shame" outside the camp.

You are accidentally blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ and Associating Him with Satan by calling Him a "Desert Demon". The name Azazal carries significant reference to Mark3:20-29 and it carries multiple meanings on multiple layers of Spiritual allegory.

Jesus (YHWH Incarnated) took the place of "Gentile, Demon, Ungodly, Adversarial, Heathen" peoples... cursed to Death's reign... and appeared before "YHWH Father" and "Adversary" as a shaggy goat man (Zechariah 3) (Genesis 27:9-10, 18-29) because of our collective sins that He bore. ... This is genuine Spiritual allegory bolstered by (John 5:39)

Zechariah 3 explains what happened and (1 Peter 3:18-22) bolsters this ... Romans 8:9 parallel to Luke 23:46
Brings this home....

But...

Here is the full scriptural path to backing up my assertion...

Rv. 12:3-4 to Ezekiel 28:13-17, 2-5 to Isaiah 14:12-15,19 to Genesis 3:1-5, 14-15 to Psalms 89:37-45; Matthew 2:16-18

Rv. 12:5 to Genesis 49:8-12 to Isaiah 7:14-15 to Luke 1:46-55 to Luke 2:4-20
(John 13:33 - John 14:6 parallel with Matthew 26:31-35) to Matthew 27:50-53 to Luke 24:46 to (1 Peter 3:18-20 parallel with Philippians 1:19)

Zechariah 3:1-2 to Jude 1:9 to Deuteronomy 4:20 to Amos 4:11 to Acts 7:56 to Job 2:2-5 to James 2:13

........... Zechariah 3:3-5 to Leviticus 22:3 to Galatians 3:19-26 to John 16:8-11 to Deuteronomy 19:15-21 to Deuteronomy 17:6 to Philippians 2:5-11 to 1 Timothy 2:5-6 to 1 Timothy 3:4-7 to 1 Timothy 3:16 to 2 Timothy 1:8-10 to 1 John 4:6-9 to 1 John 5:7 to John 18:37 to John 19:10, 12 to Ephesians 4:8

Zechariah 3:6-7 to Psalms 2:2, 6-12

Zechariah 3:8 to John 15:1-8 to Hebrews 4:8-16

Zechariah 3:9 to 1 Peter 2:1-10 to Revelation 3:21 to Revelation 3:12 to Revelation 3:5 to Zechariah 3:3 to Revelation 2:17 to Revelation 2:25-29 to Revelation 5:6 to Revelation 12:7-12 to1 Peter 5:8-9 to Hebrews 2:14 to Revelation 1:8

Zechariah 3:10; 6:9-15 to John 15:1

Zechariah 6:9-15 to Revelation 4:10-11 to Revelation 11:16-18 to Revelation 19:11-12, 21

Hebrews 4:8-9 to Matthew 11:25-30 to Matthew 12:7 to Hebrews 4:10 to Romans 4:4-5 to Hebrews 4:11 to Psalms 95:7-11 to Exodous 17:1-7 to Numbers 20:2-13

Hebrews 4:11 to Deuteronomy 12:9 to Hebrews 4:12-13 to Galatians 3:22 to John 5:39 to John 3:16-17 to Hebrews 4:14-16

#Im just a human being and everything I say is opinion and not Spiritual fact... but I recorded this over 5 years ago and this is the first time I've ever shared it in full.

Please understand that this is precious pearls to me... but I do not seek anything else than the Glory of Jesus to the Joy of the Father and Guidence of the Spirit of Christ.

- Evil.Eye.<(I)>

 

[daqq]

You are calling Satan our Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13 is clear who bore our "shame" outside the camp.

You are blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ and Associating Him with Satan by calling Him a "Desert Demon". The name carries sugnicant meaning on a multiple layers of Spiritual allegory.

Jesus (YHWH Incarnated) took the place of "Gentile, Demon, Ungodly, Adversarial, Heathen" peoples... cursed to Death's reign... and appeared before "YHWH Father" and "Adversary" as a shaggy goat man (Zechariah 3) (Genesis 27:9-10, 18-29 ... Spiritual allegory bolstered by (John 5:39)

Zechariah 3 explains what happened and (1 Peter 3:18-22) bolsters this ... Romans 8:9 parallel to Luke 23:46
Brings this home....

But...

Here is the full scriptural path to backing up my assertion...

Rv. 12:3-4 to Ezekiel 28:13-17, 2-5 to Isaiah 14:12-15,19 to Genesis 3:1-5, 14-15 to Psalms 89:37-45; Matthew 2:16-18

Rv. 12:5 to Genesis 49:8-12 to Isaiah 7:14-15 to Luke 1:46-55 to Luke 2:4-20
(John 13:33 - John 14:6 parallel with Matthew 26:31-35) to Matthew 27:50-53 to Luke 24:46 to (1 Peter 3:18-20 parallel with Philippians 1:19)

Zechariah 3:1-2 to Jude 1:9 to Deuteronomy 4:20 to Amos 4:11 to Acts 7:56 to Job 2:2-5 to James 2:13

........... Zechariah 3:3-5 to Leviticus 22:3 to Galatians 3:19-26 to John 16:8-11 to Deuteronomy 19:15-21 to Deuteronomy 17:6 to Philippians 2:5-11 to 1 Timothy 2:5-6 to 1 Timothy 3:4-7 to 1 Timothy 3:16 to 2 Timothy 1:8-10 to 1 John 4:6-9 to 1 John 5:7 to John 18:37 to John 19:10, 12 to Ephesians 4:8

Zechariah 3:6-7 to Psalms 2:2, 6-12

Zechariah 3:8 to John 15:1-8 to Hebrews 4:8-16

Zechariah 3:9 to 1 Peter 2:1-10 to Revelation 3:21 to Revelation 3:12 to Revelation 3:5 to Zechariah 3:3 to Revelation 2:17 to Revelation 2:25-29 to Revelation 5:6 to Revelation 12:7-12 to1 Peter 5:8-9 to Hebrews 2:14 to Revelation 1:8

Zechariah 3:10; 6:9-15 to John 15:1

Zechariah 6:9-15 to Revelation 4:10-11 to Revelation 11:16-18 to Revelation 19:11-12, 21

Hebrews 4:8-9 to Matthew 11:25-30 to Matthew 12:7 to Hebrews 4:10 to Romans 4:4-5 to Hebrews 4:11 to Psalms 95:7-11 to Exodous 17:1-7 to Numbers 20:2-13

Hebrews 4:11 to Deuteronomy 12:9 to Hebrews 4:12-13 to Galatians 3:22 to John 5:39 to John 3:16-17 to Hebrews 4:14-16

#Im just a human being and everything I say is opinion and not Spiritual fact... but I recorded this over 5 years ago and this is the first time I've ever shared it in full.

Please understand that this is precious pearls to me... but I do not seek anything else than the Glory of Jesus to the Joy of the Father and Guidence of the Spirit of Christ.

- Evil.Eye.<(I)>

Quoting a mountain of scripture passage proves nothing. You cannot do it all in one post and expect anyone to actually believe you. These things take much more time, thought, prayer, understanding, and full exegesis. You need to exegete each and every passage and show its relationship and show that you properly understand the meaning of each and every one of them within their contexts. You have not done any of that here. Quoting a bunch of passages does neither you nor me any good. Prove that what you say is true beginning with your statement which I highlighted in bold red. You're wrong, it is YOU who is saying exactly what you claim I have said! See how that works? Simply stating what you think does not make it true: you need to actually prove it from what is written. Additionally you have so far ignored everything else which has been said already in this short thread on this first page. If you had actually read and understood what I said you would not even be saying what you do in the bold red above. I am not going to go through all of your verse quotes and exegete them for you: the burden of proof is upon you to prove what you say to be true. I can post a mountain of verses and passages too but if I can not expound them then what good would it do to do what you have done?

Start here with your first statement:
1) Prove your apparent assertion that Hebrews 13:13 speaks in scapegoat typology.

I do not believe you.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Quoting a mountain of scripture passage proves nothing.

Spoiler

You cannot do it all in one post and expect anyone to actually believe you. These things take much more time, thought, prayer, understanding, and full exegesis. You need to exegete each and every passage and show its relationship and show that you properly understand the meaning of each and every one of them within their contexts. You have not done any of that here. Quoting a bunch of passages does neither you nor me any good. Prove that what you say is true beginning with your statement which I highlighted in bold red. You're wrong, it is YOU who is saying exactly what you claim I have said! See how that works? Simply stating what you think does not make it true: you need to actually prove it from what is written. Additionally you have so far ignored everything else which has been said already in this short thread on this first page. If you had actually read and understood what I said you would not even be saying what you do in the bold red above. I am not going to go through all of your verse quotes and exegete them for you: the burden of proof is upon you to prove what you say to be true. I can post a mountain of verses and passages too but if I can not expound them then what good would it do to do what you have done?

Please change the highlighted red... I changed it to accidentally blaspheming... And your rapid reply states what I have suspected all along... you have been "blindly" debating me without taking the time to evaluate what I take the time to write to you. If I was a fool, or a dogma brain case... that's understandable... but Every post I quote scripture in is carefully researched before I post it. I rarely respond with mountains of scripture... but you have no idea how potent the scripture you are mis-exegeting is...

You have been Fully Rebutted with scripture and I have launched a counter OP with my Rebuttal. I'm done with this.

I warned you.

Only the scholars will evaluate our work, and it is clear who is mis-exegeting here.

This is not about winning, being right or my reputation... it never is..

I count myself evil, indwelled by the Only TRUE GOOD.

I am a fallible man, and never want to be listened to, once I'm dead. I want my posts and words to die with me. The Spirit that speaks through us is eternal and He is the TRUTH.

Our words are mere strikings at the infinite mine of divine TRUTH.

 

[daqq]

Please change the highlighted red... I changed it to accidentally blaspheming... And your rapid reply states what I have suspected all along... you have been "blindly" debating me without taking the time to evaluate what I take the time to write to you. If I was a fool, or a dogma brain case... that's understandable... but Every post I quote scripture in is carefully researched before I post it. I rarely respond with mountains of scripture... but you have no idea how potent the scripture you are mis-exegeting is...

You have been Fully Rebutted with scripture and I have launched a counter OP with my Rebuttal. I'm done with this.

I warned you.

Only the scholars will evaluate our work, and it is clear who is mis-exegeting here.

This is not about winning, being right or my reputation... it never is..

I count myself evil, indwelled by the Only TRUE GOOD.

I am a fallible man, and never want to be listened to, once I'm dead. I want my posts and words to die with me. The Spirit that speaks through us is eternal and He is the TRUTH.

Our words are mere strikings at the infinite mine of divine TRUTH.

None of this proves your very first assertion concerning Hebrews 13:13.

Boiyoiyoiyoiyoing . . . You lose . . . Thank you for playing . . . :loser: :Nineveh:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

None of this proves your very first assertion concerning Hebrews 13:13.

Boiyoiyoiyoiyoing . . . You lose . . . Thank you for playing . . . :loser: :Nineveh:

Daqq

Im DEADLY serious right now... you are tampering with things you are not seeing. I'm not going to joke around. I'm not being funny here.

You don't understand "Who" the Holy Spirit is... (Philippians 1:19)

This is why you don't understand Hebrews 13:13 ...

I retain that you have not and can't refute what I have posted because of your "Arian" error. You are my brother "In" Christ... but... Brother, you are being severely naive with this OP and your embracing of the core doctrine that tanks SDA theology. Perhaps your "Arian" error led you to this belief... but... Lovingly... I'm telling you that you are severely wrong.

You can't even teach the gospel in simple terms Daqq. I can do it in three sentences. There is a major error that is hurting you, concerning theological matters you have discussed lately.

All your hooping and hollering doesn't change the fact that my counter OP and post dismembers your assertion and exalts Jesus as YHWH, Savior and immediate propitiation...

You don't even understand propitiation Daqq... you would begin to see what you are severely screwing up... but you can't even get that right. Faith Daqq... the WORK of ONE Daqq.

One Sin Bearer... Many Sins.

Rebuttal-to-Daqq-s-Posted-OP-quot-Christian-Azazel-Atonement-Theory-quot

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Daqq

Im DEADLY serious right now... you are tampering with things you are not seeing. I'm not going to joke around. I'm not being funny here.

You don't understand "Who" the Holy Spirit is... (Philippians 1:19)

This is why you don't understand Hebrews 13:13 ...

I retain that you have not and can't refute what I have posted because of your "Arian" error. You are my brother "In" Christ... but... Brother, you are being severely naive with this OP and your embracing of the core doctrine that tanks SDA theology. Perhaps your "Arian" error led you to this belief... but... Lovingly... I'm telling you that you are severely wrong.

You can't even teach the gospel in simple terms Daqq. I can do it in three sentences. There is a major error that is hurting you, concerning theological matters you have discussed lately.

All your hooping and hollering doesn't change the fact that my counter OP and post dismembers your assertion and exalts Jesus as YHWH, Savior and immediate propitiation...

You don't even understand propitiation Daqq... you would begin to see what you are severely screwing up... but you can't even get that right. Faith Daqq... the WORK of ONE Daqq.

One Sin Bearer... Many Sins.

Rebuttal-to-Daqq-s-Posted-OP-quot-Christian-Azazel-Atonement-Theory-quot

Have you explained your position to poster GT on who Jesus is?

You are not a trinitarian either are you.

You are wrong on many things, but one full of themselves can not know it.

most of your rebuttals are like this post. It is so revealing about who you are, so stop pretending.



LA

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Have you explained your position to poster GT on who Jesus is?

You are not a trinitarian either are you.

You are wrong on many things, but one full of themselves can not know it.

most of your rebuttals are like this post. It is so revealing about who you are, so stop pretending.



LA

This was to Kingdom Rose... Now go play...

Daqq is my Arian friend... and you need to shut up while you're on his OP.

Thanks

You must understand... I believe in The Father... I believe Jesus is the "Incarnation" of YHWH in likeness (not sinful) "likeness" of humanity (Creator and Creation "one" as Son of God and Son of Man)... I further believe that Philippians 1:19 and Romans 8:9 explain that the indwelling Spirit of YHWH within our human temples is The Holy Spirit of Christ... (This I can prove from scripture)... the trinity "doctrine", on the other hand tries to go beyond scripture and has caused hatred, murder and mass division... this is why I speak as I speak.

But... I assert unity... not for myself, but to do as Christ did.

This is why I call you sibling and fellowship with you. Others here banter back and forth as well. They may seem rough, but they don't want any soldiers left behind!

I believe your belief that Jesus is not God causes you to assert to "Be Like God"... and thus the true gospel of Grace eludes you.

Jesus did not condemn and he only disassociated Himself from the most pious of religious hypocrites.

You are not just hurting yourself by trusting man made doctrines, but others you lead astray...

I call you sibling, but the rebukes and warnings you get from non doctrinal, bible only through the Spirit of Christ Believers is "just" rebuke and warning.

I encourage you to trust that those who rebuke you in debate and sound harsh are simply trying to assist you in seeing something the doctrines of men have blinded you to.

AMR, on the other hand... genuinely writes Arians off as lost. This is not our place... we are not God. That is for He alone to judge and my job is to Love. Some here sound unloving, but they are ferocious because they are frustrated and care.

I have named one that truely writes people off as "heritics".

Kingdom Rose... Be wise to who's who.

May the Spirit of Jesus guide you and keep you.

 

[daqq]

Daqq

Im DEADLY serious right now... you are tampering with things you are not seeing. I'm not going to joke around. I'm not being funny here.

You don't understand "Who" the Holy Spirit is... (Philippians 1:19)

This is why you don't understand Hebrews 13:13 ...

I retain that you have not and can't refute what I have posted because of your "Arian" error. You are my brother "In" Christ... but... Brother, you are being severely naive with this OP and your embracing of the core doctrine that tanks SDA theology. Perhaps your "Arian" error led you to this belief... but... Lovingly... I'm telling you that you are severely wrong.

You can't even teach the gospel in simple terms Daqq. I can do it in three sentences. There is a major error that is hurting you, concerning theological matters you have discussed lately.

All your hooping and hollering doesn't change the fact that my counter OP and post dismembers your assertion and exalts Jesus as YHWH, Savior and immediate propitiation...

You don't even understand propitiation Daqq... you would begin to see what you are severely screwing up... but you can't even get that right. Faith Daqq... the WORK of ONE Daqq.

One Sin Bearer... Many Sins.

Be right back . . .

Instead of making a bunch of false accusations about someone you do not know why do you not actually make an argument for all of your statements and assertions? YOU are the one doing all the "hooping and hollering" and that is plain as day for anyone actually willing to see it. And again you loudly proclaim, "Jesus is YHWH", showing that, for one, your version of "God Almighty" died at Golgotha, and two, your version of "God Almighty" is dead because the very definition of dead, is dead, and not alive, meaning that if indeed anything or anyone is dead then he or it cannot raise himself or itself back up to life because that is the very meaning of DEAD. The only other conclusion is that your version of "God Almighty" never actually died because the real God Almighty cannot be killed by His own creation. Thus your foolish idea from your vain imagination that the Father YHWH Elohim Almighty "became a mortal man" is clearly exposed as a lie.

 

[daqq]

Daqq

Im DEADLY serious right now... you are tampering with things you are not seeing. I'm not going to joke around. I'm not being funny here.

Refutation of your very first assertion:

You are accidentally calling Satan our Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13 is clear who bore our "shame" outside the camp.

Hebrews 13:10-13 KJV
10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

The above passage which you quote has nothing to do with the goat sent away to Azazel because the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the Kohen Gadol for sin were burned outside the camp. This speaks of Yeshua not in "scapegoat" typology but rather of that sacrificed for its blood which was brought into the sanctuary. The goat sent away to Azazel was NOT SACRIFICED at all. Its blood was not shed for any reason or purpose because it was LET GO ALIVE into the desert-wilderness. Additionally the goat whose blood was brought into the sanctuary speaks of the blood of atonements for those things inside the sanctuary which are commanded but that goat was not to be eaten: only its blood was used for the sprinkling of atonement blood within the sanctuary; the entire goat was to be burned without the camp and not to be eaten. The blood of the sin offering is however sprinkled on the outside brazen altar of sacrifice, or altar of burnt offering, but the blood of that goat for a sin offering is not brought into the sanctuary for the atonement of those things therein. The goat whose blood is brought into the sanctuary is not even eaten:

Leviticus 10:16-20 KJV
16 And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,
17 Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD?
18 Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I [am] commanded.
19 And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the LORD; and such things have befallen me: and if I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the LORD?
20 And when Moses heard that, he was content.

In this day, the day in which Nadab and Abihu died before YHWH, (Lev 10:1-2), Moshe is commanded to separate the day of Yom Kippurim to the tenth of the seventh month, which is recorded in Leviticus 16, (Lev 16:1, 29-34), and this passage above is one of the reasons why, (Lev 10:19). The author of Hebrews speaks of the body of the goat for the sin offering which was burned outside the camp if indeed that is what the author even speaks of at all. It is clearly not in reference to the goat kept ALIVE and sent away into the desert to Azazel.

In addition we read that Moshe pitched his tabernacle outside the camp and it was called the Tabernacle of the Testimony. Both the NKJV and the Septuagint give this reading; but whether or not it was his own tent or not is really inconsequential to this discussion because either way it is the Tabernacle of the Testimony and the same is the Mishkan-Tabernacle of the wilderness sojourn. Have you never noticed that the Tabernacle is a large portion of the subject matter in the Epistle to the Hebrews? Hebrews 13:13 speaks of what I already told you even before you quoted that passage to me, that is, the one whose name is the Door, Messiah Yeshua, the Door of the Tabernacle and the sheepfold, (John 10:1-16), or sheep-pen:

The sa`iyr-shaggy-goat is not Azazel, but rather, the goat is sent away with all the sins of the congregation upon its head to-for Azazel, the demon king of the desert wilderness; and his head is indeed "mortally wounded" because Ahron and the kohanim which followed after him were to place their hands upon its head and confess all the sins of the congregation before sending it away into the desert to-for Azazel, (Lev 16:21). But every offering that may be eaten or consumed by the congregation is commanded to be brought unto the Door of the Tabernacle, (and who is it that calls himself "the Door"?). This is recorded in the very next chapter of Leviticus and the same word for goat, (sa`iyr), is employed with the meaning of a satyr or demon-devil in that passage:

Yeshua is "that Prophet like unto Moshe", (Deuteronomy 18:15-22, Acts 3:22-26), as you and yours have been shown from the scripture many times, in many different threads, where you and yours have rejected those words in favor of your futurist physical flesh kingdom minded doctrines. It is therefore perfectly appropriate and accurate that Moshe set his own Tabernacle-Tent outside the camp because of the lack of belief on the part of bnei Yisrael, just as Yeshua suffered outside the camp, because of the unbelief of the rulers of Yisrael:

Exodus 33:7 NKJV
7 Moses took his tent and pitched it outside the camp, far from the camp, and ^kcalled it the tabernacle of meeting. And it came to pass that everyone who lsought the Lord went out to the tabernacle of meeting which was outside the camp.

Exodus 33:7 Septuagint Brenton English Translation
7 And Moses took his tabernacle and pitched it without the camp, at a distance from the camp; and it was called the Tabernacle of Testimony: and it came to pass that every one that sought the Lord went forth to the tabernacle which was without the camp.

Now look at the overall context: it implies that Moshe pitched his tabernacle outside the camp because of the stiffnecked-hard-heartedness of bnei Yisrael:

Exodus 33:1-11 KJV
1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:
2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
3 Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
4 And when the people heard these evil tidings, they mourned: and no man did put on him his ornaments.
5 For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, ["twinkly of an eye"] and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.
6 And the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb.
7 And Moses took the tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, afar off from the camp, and called it the Tabernacle of the congregation. And it came to pass, that every one which sought the LORD went out unto the tabernacle of the congregation, which was without the camp.
8 And it came to pass, when Moses went out unto the tabernacle, that all the people rose up, and stood every man at his tent door, and looked after Moses, until he was gone into the tabernacle.
9 And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the LORD talked with Moses.
10 And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Look at how much work it took to refute just one of your passage quotes. But I have scripture context and meaning for what I say. You have provided nothing more than speculation and your own private interpretations. This is why your quote-mining, cherry picking, and posting a mountain of scripture chapter and verse numbers does you absolutely no good.

 

[meshak]

You have so much patience on your enemy's repetitious false accusations, Daqq.

 

[daqq]

I'm Jewish Daqq...

By the way, this just goes to show that "being Jewish" means nothing if it does not include Judaism. You might as well be a secular Jew because according to Judaism you are not a Jew anyway; for no religious, and especially not an orthodox Jew, would believe what you do. You seem to think that just because you are Jewish that gives you some special privilege to be "right" in what you believe; but sorry to tell you, I learned long ago that Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9 apply to any and all who claim the name of the Meshiah of YHWH, the Lion of tribe Yhudah. Do as Paul says and count your fleshly status as loss, (Phil 3:3-11), so as to gain the excellency of the knowledge of Meshiah. Your flesh and his mindset is killing you, part yourself asunder as I explained to you, O man. This is the hardest thing for a Jew to do, but if not, you will not become Yhudi.

Ye Olde Fishermans Tale ~ Once upon a fishtale there was a Sea Captain who summoned two of his mariner fishermen before him to put forth the orders of the day. He said to them both: Go down to the Sea and cast in a crooked hook. Take up the first fish that bites upon the crooked hook and snatch him up out from the Sea; then suspend him in mid-air, squeezing the captured fish in your hand. And, behold, the treasure will come forth out of his mouth. Then bring back to me so that I may settle with each of you his wages. So the one wise mariner heeded the commandment of his Captain, and went down to the Sea with a crooked hook, and cast it into the Sea. And, behold, a great hogfish full of pride darted up with a flashy splash to the surface and bit down hard upon the crooked hook. And the wise mariner plucked him up from the Sea, suspending the hogfish in midair, and squeezed him in his hand so as to remove the crooked hook from his jaw. And as the mariner held the fish, and squeezed, the intense thlipsis was too great for the old hogfish, and he gave up the ghost: and a two-horned azazel came forth from his mouth. So the wise mariner went his way and returned to the Sea Captain with the two-horned azazel secured in his bag. But the unwise mariner said to himself: I will go down to the lake, and cast my net, and thus shall I have a multitude of fish by and by; and once I return with the treasure then all that is the excess flesh will be mine. So he went his merry way to the lake, and cast in his net, and the catch was great: and he drew forth a great multitude of fish of all kinds. Yet from all of that which he had drawn up in his net he found no such fish with a treasure in its mouth. So he went on his merry way back to the Sea Captain, rich in flesh, but lacking what was required of his Captain. And when the two fishermen arrived back at camp, the one wise mariner was called up to give an account before the Sea Captain; and rising up, he says to his Captain, Yea, Master, it was exactly as you said, for behold, a great wily hogfish full of pride darted up to the surface and bit down hard upon that crooked hook as soon as ever I had cast it into the Sea! And behold, he croaked like a frog, and the treasure came forth from his mouth, even as he was suspended in midair, in great tribulation: and here now is that two-horned azazel. And the Sea Captain says to him, Well done, wise and trusting servant; the azazel is the soul of a soul worth one shekel. Half is for me, and the other half is in the place of you! Enter into the great feast prepared for all the faithful mariners of my Father. Then the unwise mariner was called up to give an account, and going up he answered, saying, Not was it so as you had bidden, O Master, for though I dragged my net, and a great multitude of fish of all kinds were drawn up from the lake: yet was there not to be found any kind of fish with a coin in his mouth. And the Sea Captain says unto the unwise mariner, You wicked servant! Had you gone to where I commanded you, and had you done as I commanded you to do, then you would have returned with the price that is upon your own head: but in your greed you went to my private lake and drew abundantly out of my own private stock! And the Sea Captain called his armored Centaurs, and commanded them, saying, Take this wily hogfish from before me and cast him into my Sea!

And it came to pass, when they were come to KapherNaum, that those who collect the didrachma, (that is, the double drachma half shekel), came to Petros, saying, Does your teacher pay the didrachma? And he said, Yea. But when he came into the house Yeshua spoke first to him, saying, What do you think, Shimon? the kings of the earth; from whom do they receive toll or tribute? from their sons, or from strangers? And when he had said, From strangers, Yeshua says to him, Therefore the sons are free: but lest we cause them to stumble, go forth to the sea and cast in a cooked-hook, and take up the first fish coming up, and opening his mouth you shall find a stater: take that and give it to them for me, and for you. And Shimon did as the Master had said, going down to the sea, and as he stood upon the sand of the seashore he cast a crooked hook out into the sea, and behold, all things happened as the Master had said. And a great dagfish darted to the surface and bit down hard on the crooked hook. And Shimon dragged him up out of the sea: and as the beast rose up out of the sea, he suspended him in midair, and stuck his thumb into its mouth to remove the hook, squeezing the captured dagon tightly with his other hand, in great tribulation: and dagon coughed up a Tyrian Shekel, that is, the Shekel of Tyre.

Yohanan 19:12-15
12 Upon this Pilate sought to release him: but the Yhudim cried out, saying, If you release this man, you are not a friend of Caesar: every one that makes himself a king speaks against Caesar!
13 When Pilate therefore heard these words, he brought Yeshua out, and sat down on the judgment seat at the place called The Pavement, but in Hebrew-Aramaic, Gabbatha.
14 Moreover it was the Preparation of the Passover, the hour was about the sixth, and he said to the Yhudim, Behold, your king!
15 They therefore cried out, Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him! Pilate says to them, Shall I crucify your king? The chief kohanim answered: We have no king but καισαρα!

Ouch! The chief kohanim answered: We have no king but καισαρα!

καισαρα ― Kaesar-Caesar ― Gematria 333 (half of 666)

Now therefore, O man, part yourself asunder and do as the Master says, Render unto Caesar the things of Caesar, and render unto Elohim the things of Elohim: for every man is likened to a stater, and Caesar was a god-man in the flesh, and a god of this world, and king of the world; but the whole world lies in wickedness, and the old man is the price upon your head, and the kingdom of Messiah is not of this world. The other half of your stater is the flesh man, the carnal minded old man: cut him off and send him away from you, send him out into desert of the world, for he belongs to the desert king, (the same typology is he that Paul calls Aretas, king of the desert, Arabia).

 

[daqq]

Refutation of your second assertion: the understanding of Zechariah 3

You are accidentally calling Satan our Sin Bearer. Hebrews 13:13 is clear who bore our "shame" outside the camp.

You are accidentally blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ and Associating Him with Satan by calling Him a "Desert Demon". The name Azazal carries significant reference to Mark3:20-29 and it carries multiple meanings on multiple layers of Spiritual allegory.

Jesus (YHWH Incarnated) took the place of "Gentile, Demon, Ungodly, Adversarial, Heathen" peoples... cursed to Death's reign... and appeared before "YHWH Father" and "Adversary" as a shaggy goat man (Zechariah 3) (Genesis 27:9-10, 18-29) because of our collective sins that He bore. ... This is genuine Spiritual allegory bolstered by (John 5:39)

Zechariah 3 explains what happened and (1 Peter 3:18-22) bolsters this ... Romans 8:9 parallel to Luke 23:46
Brings this home....

Zechariah 3:1-10
1 And he showed me Yhoshua haKohen haGadol standing before the Malak of YHWH, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And YHWH said unto Satan, YHWH rebuke you, O Satan; even YHWH that has chosen Yerushalem rebuke you: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3 Moreover Yhoshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the Malak.
4 And he answered and spoke unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you, and I will clothe you with change of raiment.
5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the Malak of YHWH stood by.
6 And the Malak of YHWH protested unto Yhoshua, saying:
7 Thus says YHWH Tsabaoth; If you will walk in My ways, and if you will keep My charge, then you will also judge My house, and shall also keep My courts, and I will give you places to walk among these that stand by.
8 Hear now, Yhoshua haKohen haGadol, you and your associates that sit before you: for they are men of a sign: for behold, I will bring forth My servant, Tsemach-Branch.
9 For behold, the Stone that I have laid before Yhoshua; upon one Stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, says YHWH Tsabaoth, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, says YHWH Tsabaoth, you shall call every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree!

The Epistle of Jude provides us the understanding of the above passage: the Malak of YHWH herein is Miykael, haSar haGadol, who stands for the children of Yisrael; the Head, the Captain, Sar tsaba YHWH, that is, the Captain of all the host of YHWH. The rebuke is quoted word for word:

Jude 1:9
9 Yet Miykael the Archangel, [Head-Messenger] when contending with the devil, he disputed concerning the body of Moshe, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, "YHWH rebuke you", [Zechariah 3:2].

This "body of Moshe" is not the physical body of Moshe but rather the whole congregation-body. That is why the understanding escapes most and too often goes unrecognized, (because of a carnal physical body mindset). Moshe is the first Kohen Gadol of the Melki-Tzedek priesthood under the Torah, that is, he is not the first of that priesthood but the first under the Torah, (Yhoshua bin Nun is the next after Moshe; for Moshe laid his hands upon him and gave him the charge, as YHWH commanded him, setting Yhoshua bin Nun before Eleazar the Kohen and before all the congregation). The body of the Tanakh faithful was therefore "the body of Moshe" just the same as the body of the new covenant faithful are the "body of Messiah", (and the body of Moshe was folded into Messiah with the events of Matthew 27:51-53, "one Shepherd and one fold", John 10:16). This dispute over "the body of Moshe" therefore takes place when bnei Yisrael cross the Yarden River, for it does not concern the physical body of Moshe but rather the whole body of the congregation, and at that time Yhoshua bin Nun is the chosen Head over the congregation, after the passing of Moshe. The vision of Zechariah 3 therefore does not speak of Yeshua ben Yhotzadak, haKohen haGadol, but rather Yhoshua bin Nun, haKohen haGadol, and the vision concerns Joshua 5 where the Malak of YHWH, who is Sar tsaba YHWH, (Captain of the host-armies of YHWH), appears to Yhoshua. This happens immediately following the second circumcision of the whole congregation, the children which grew up in the desert and were not circumcised in the wilderness sojourn, and the first Passover in the Land which immediately followed that circumcision, (previously in the same chapter).

Joshua 5:13-15
13 And it came to pass, when Yhoshua was by Yericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood an 'iysh [a certain one] over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Yhoshua went to him, and said unto him, Are you for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as Sar tsaba YHWH am I now come. And Yhoshua fell on his face to the earth, and did obeisance, and said unto him, What says Adoni to his servant?
15 And Sar tsaba YHWH said to Yhoshua, Loose your shoe from off your foot; for the place whereon you stand is holy. And Yhoshua did so.

The Sar tsaba YHWH is the same "Prince of princes" in haNavi Daniel:

Daniel 8:10-11a
10 And it waxed great, even to the tsaba-host of the heavens; and it cast down some of the tsaba-host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11a Yea, he magnified himself even to Sar ha-Tsaba: [the Prince of the Host]

Daniel 8:25
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against Sar-sariym: [the Prince of princes] but he shall be broken without hand.

And the same Sar tsaba YHWH and Sar ha-Tsaba is Miykael haSar haGadol:

Daniel 12:1a-b
1 And at that time shall Miykael stand up, haSar haGadol, [the Great Prince] who stands for the sons of your people:

Thus the "certain one" who appears to Yhoshua in Joshua 5 is Miykael, haSar haGadol, Sar tsaba YHWH, the Captain of the tsaba-host-armies of YHWH, the Head Messenger, the Arche-angelos, and Head over the sons of Yisrael, (not just Yhudah, because in the ninth chapter Daniel prays and repents for all Yisrael, and the holy city Yerushalem). Knowing this then who are those men who are seated before Yhoshua in the Zechariah passage? Those who are said to be men of a sign or omen? What or who is the Stone spoken of in that same passage? the Stone with seven eyes?

Zechariah 3:8-9
8 Hear now, Yhoshua haKohen haGadol, you and your fellows that sit before you: for they are men of a sign: for behold, I will bring forth My servant, Tzemach-Branch.
9 For behold the Stone that I have laid before Yhoshua; upon one Stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, says YHWH Tsabaoth, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

This is the Witness Stone which heard all the words of the following covenant:

Joshua 24:24-28
24 And the people said unto Yhoshua, YHWH our Elohim will we serve, and His voice will we obey.
25 So Yhoshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shekem.
26 And Yhoshua wrote these words in the Sefer of the Torah of Elohim, and took a great Stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the Sanctuary of YHWH.
27 And Yhoshua said unto all the people, Behold, this Stone shall be a Witness unto us; for it has heard all the words of YHWH which He spoke unto us: it shall be therefore a Witness unto you, lest you deny your Elohim.
28 So Yhoshua let the people depart, every man unto his inheritance.

So I know where you are headed, dear Evil.Eye., and that is that you think the Malak of Zec 3:1-2 is YHWH Himself, and you are flat out wrong. And that is why the Epistle of Jude clarifies that one place, (sort of like tying up loose ends), for the Most High speaks through His Messengers just as His Word does: but when His Word is speaking it appears to the reader as if it is YHWH Himself. But haNavi Zekaryah makes it abundantly clear by the context that the Malak of YHWH is Present, (Malak of the Presence).