ECT Cheap or Costly Grace?

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God the Son assumed the flesh seed of David; was born of woman as a Child, who was named Jesus. This was the eternally promised Christ.

Jesus the son of God was born to become the son of man per Isaiah 53:1-7, 9:6,7, who will soon come in clouds of glory. It is not arguable __ if you know the scriptures.
 

serpentdove

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Grace is getting something you don't deserve. So the cost to me is free, as stated by our apostle Paul.

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

However, it was not cheap to him. He paid the price with his life.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

That's right.

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serpentdove

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People are vain, prone to pride of life, want to believe they're special, have some lease on truth others don't have, and also wish to mold God in their image, to suit their prejudices, which is silly, the creature dictating the Creator.

There are some things in the Bible I don't like, would have different. It is at this point I realize how ignorant I am, to not see, understand some things, which are inherent to the mind of very God, and, therefore, right and proper. There is only truth, which doesn't involve wishful thinking or philosophies of man, the delusions of man, therefore, worthless. Our lack of understanding, kicking against truth, is not of faith and even proof of our fallibility and foolishness, see what I mean?

Scripture should be read with a completely open mind that seeks "Thy will, not my will," and this regardless our limited thinking. Anything else is to set out a welcome mat to gross error. Yes, the Hebrew and Greek, in the hands of the prejudicial, will usually translate to "what I want it to mean."

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
We must yield to him. It's not the other way around. Jas 4:7, Pr 16:25
 

Bright Raven

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God the Son assumed the flesh seed of David; was born of woman as a Child, who was named Jesus. This was the eternally promised Christ.

And what does this scripture mean?


Hebrews 10:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
 

heir

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Grace is getting something you don't deserve. So the cost to me is free, as stated by our apostle Paul.
:thumb:

Amen!

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Which one do you live by?

Any takers?? Surely all you Greek and Hebrew "scholars" +nothing, will at least "profess" your leanings toward which thinking suits your findings __ and why?
What is "cheap" about the sacrifice the Lord Jesus Christ made in our stead?
 

heir

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1. Ephesians 1:13-14 = Promise of
seal cannot be broken, earnest=guarantee "of our inheritance":

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Why don't you believe it?

2. Ephesians 4:32 KJV =????
Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

3. Colossians 2:13 KJV = Past, present and future??? That's presumption unless you understand it to be the obligation of discipleship?
How many of your sins were in the future when Christ was delivered for our offences and was raised again for our justification?

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 

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seal cannot be broken, earnest=guarantee "of our inheritance":

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Continued trust is the requirement, correct?

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The promise given the requirement being faithfulness.

Why don't you believe it?

I do, I do. I do. Every word of it.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

How many of your sins were in the future when Christ was delivered for our offences and was raised again for our justification?

None. That is what His grace is all about that when we do,IN THE FUTURE, we have an advocate with God Who pleads our case. Why don't you believe that?

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Present and past tense implied, NOT future.

You need to read your scripture you post up as proof of how you believe things are after you said the sinners prayer. Try reading ALL of Colossians 1, esp. vs 23, to see if you can find yourself __ O man of Paul?
 

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Colossians 1:21–22 (KJV 1900)

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled*in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight"

Whose death?? Ours! Reason? That He might present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" as representing His Body!!!!
 

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Colossians 1:21–22 (KJV 1900)

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled*in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight"

Whose death?? Ours! Reason? That He might present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" as representing His Body!!!! Ergo, the Grace that saves is the Grace given a true disciple of Jesus Christ.
 

nikolai_42

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Do you believe one can be less than a disciple of Jesus Christ and still be in grace?

What did it cost the unforgiving servant to be forgiven all his massive debt? It cost him nothing but it was still forgiven him. However, when he failed to reflect that same principle (costing HIM something), his debt was reinstated.

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6:14-15

The grace was costly no matter who received it, but it seems not everyone is really very aware of how costly it is. Probably because they have used salvation as a means of temporary relief. That is, they don't really understand what salvation through Christ is - why it is necessary and what position it puts them in.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luke 7:47

I really think Jesus is saying that this woman was forgiven much - that's why she loves much (the second half of the verse seems to say so). In other words, if one realizes the enormity of what salvation is, then nothing short of their very lives is at stake. And, having been saved from death, what else is there to do but to have it used in pursuing life and immortality? One cannot ride the fence for long but will, at some point, be forced to choose one way or the other. So for a time, one may well be able to live any way he wants after having received the grace of God that brings salvation (Titus 2:11), but the Lord does not allow that situation to perpetuate itself indefinitely.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Galatians 6:7-8

If someone comes to Christ thinking he has a free pass, he has another thing coming. The Lord may forgive, but will eventually require something of the man (sometimes sooner rather than later). The one in Christ is not somehow exempted from the standard set forth in those verses in Galatians 6 (and others like them). But then again, once that man finds out just where he stands and what his liberty in Christ affords him, I can't see him not pursuing Christ with everything he has. Again, that doesn't necessarily happen instantaneously, but the time comes for the one who has been forgiven to act.

The man who is on the negative end of those verses in Galatians 6 is not in a good spot. I don't doubt that the man himself will ultimately be saved - Christ cannot deny Himself. But I suspect that man's eternal habitation will be one in which he must live with the regret that he threw away so much that he could have used to benefit others (and himself!). Instead, pursuing earthly delights, he winds up (in many cases) in a place worse than he was before he came to Christ. Each man is judged on what he knows, I believe. There are many things that he ought to know and is held accountable for whether he suppresses that knowledge or not (e.g. the existence of God, the understanding that he is a sinner - if the Holy Spirit has so opened his eyes). But then there are things that a man learns as he continues to walk with Christ that he could never know otherwise. If he turns his back on those things then there are serious consequences that bring to mind this verse :

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2 Peter 2:20-21

And this all goes back to what I think of as momentum. If a man is not really moving, he will be tossed about by every wind of doctrine and have no anchor. If he is moving in a heavenly direction then no matter what comes he will follow Christ. There may be times of spectacular moral failure (David always comes to mind here - even Peter) but if that man has his eyes fixed on Jesus, then those are external evidences of God's work in his life. They are evidences of things that need reckoning. The point is far less the sin itself than the response to what God must bring him through. It need not be overt sin, but the man in Christ will eventually and inevitably find himself being dealt with by God. But how does that man respond?

And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Luke 7:22

If, however, a man is not actively striving - not seeking a better resurrection like the apostle Paul said he was doing and enjoined others so to do (Philippians 3:8-16) - then that man is simply presuming on salvation. Does he have it? Yes. Will it be of eternal benefit to him? I don't know. Jesus, in four instances, speaks of a place of outer darkness where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Those who were at risk of that state were "the children of the kingdom" (Matthew 8:12), the one who snuck in without a wedding garment on (Matthew 22:13), "hypocrites" (Matthew 24:51) and "the unprofitable servant" (Matthew 25:30). In at least 3 of these 4 scenarios, the one who is expelled is one who would have a reasonable expectation of admittance. There are more layers to it than that, but the point is this : these are not horrendous, unrepentant sinners who spit in Christ's eye openly. These are those who - in many cases - could even be called lukewarm. These are those who maybe should have borne fruit but are fruitless. These are ones who had the Word of God and did not obey it. These are they who had much light and understanding but whose light ultimately became darkness because they did not hold to the light they had. And that darkness became eternal. I don't know who will end up in the fire, but if you read Revelation 21, you see that outside the city anything that defiles.

Remember...this is about those who don't actively pursue Christ. It need not be those that become missionaries or literally sell everything to preach the gospel etc... It is about those who are really "in it for the long haul". And that isn't ULTIMATELY possible if one is just saved for the fire insurance (so to speak).

I am reminded of John Newton's biography. In it, he came to the Lord and even after found himself lapsing into the foul lifestyle he had turned from to find repentance and faith in Christ. One night he had a dream in which he was given a ring by a man who claimed that it would give him great happiness and blessing. If lost, he would have nothing but misery. Another man came along and convinced him that the story was ridiculous and so he tossed the ring in the sea. No sooner had he done it than the Alps burst into flames (he was actually docked at Venice when he had the dream). Of course it brought great sorrow and shame to him and so he turned to head to cast himself on the flames as his no doubt just reward for his foolishness. As he turned, another man (or the first man - he was unsure) appeared and asked what was going on. He explained and the third man dove into the water where the ring went down and brought it up to the surface. No sooner had he done so than all the fires stopped. Newton was overjoyed and went to thank him and get the ring back. But the man refused it to him. When asked if he had learned his lesson and if he could be trusted with the ring, Newton had to admit he couldn't guarantee he wouldn't be convinced to act foolishly with it again. The man then said he would hold it for him and produce it on his behalf when needed. Awaking, Newton was so struck by the dream that he couldn't hardly eat, sleep or do business for 3 days. It was not to be long before he had another striking dream that portended the Lord's Grace in his life - eventually bringing him to full repentance.

The point here is that Newton - the author of the well known hymn recounting God's amazing grace - was a rough character in his early life. Even after coming to Christ he was still rough and for a time lapsed into his old life. But the Lord seized on him and his life eventually became devoted entirely to His business. We cannot make ourselves worthy of that grace, nor can we work to maintain it. That is, our working is only - can only and must only - be a direct result of the work of God in us. If we are "saved" but show no fruits or abiding conviction, then we must doubt where we stand with God. Has He forgiven us all our sin? Yes. But going forward, where do we stand? We can stand on the finished work of Christ - and stand we must - but if that finished work means to us that our own future is of no eternal importance, how does that reflect the spirit of Christ? How does that evidence any work of the Spirit of God in our own hearts? He has put eternity in our hearts. And when the heart is awakened to life - life in Christ - it finds its intended habitation and does not want to leave, come what may. Abiding in Christ is not something we "do" in the sense of working to stay in Him, but it is something that will happen if our gaze is Christ and our goal is eternal. It is something God works in and we work out.

So the short answer is that cheap grace is not grace at all but a recipe for disaster. Those who just want to get in the gates of heaven may find themselves in outer darkness. But all this doesn't happen at once and God often takes time to work in a man. Costly grace awakens us to the magnitude of the whole of life as centered in our Lord and works in us that which we are commanded to work out.
 
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