Theology Club: can ya help a brother out

[LoneStar]

I have questions about the theology of mad. Not the concept but rather fine tuning the concept. Was told this was the place so this is my first thread here. Go slow with me and be gentle. Here goes.

This question is based on the premise of Paul's gospel differing from that of James and Peter. The premise of this question takes that as a fact so no need to argue against that premise. This question is for those that already take that premise as fact.

Question #1.
Can a Jew be saved today in this dispensation that believes all James and Peter taught, but doesn't believe all Paul taught? Could they be in the boc by believing James and Peter but not Paul?

 

[Tambora]

Was told this was the place

Yeppers!

be gentle.

Dream on! :chuckle:

It's a pretty good question.
I can see why one would ask it.
Good to see you back here!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Question #1.
Can a Jew be saved today in this dispensation that believes all James and Peter taught, but doesn't believe all Paul taught? Could they be in the boc by believing James and Peter but not Paul?

Let's start with what John taught and go from there. The book of John was written several years after the present dispensation began so is there any reason to suppose that what is written in the following passage cannot be in effect today?:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

 

[glorydaz]

I have questions about the theology of mad. Not the concept but rather fine tuning the concept. Was told this was the place so this is my first thread here. Go slow with me and be gentle. Here goes.

This question is based on the premise of Paul's gospel differing from that of James and Peter. The premise of this question takes that as a fact so no need to argue against that premise. This question is for those that already take that premise as fact.

Question #1.
Can a Jew be saved today in this dispensation that believes all James and Peter taught, but doesn't believe all Paul taught? Could they be in the boc by believing James and Peter but not Paul?

I would wonder how you'd explain the "endure to the end" in order to be saved. :idunno:

 

[LoneStar]

Let's start with what John taught and go from there. The book of John was written several years after the present dispensation began so is there any reason to suppose that what is written in the following passage cannot be in effect today?:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

I'm not seeing why the date it was written could make a difference. I have heard that the book of Job was the oldest written book of the Bible. Written before the creation event of Genesis supposedly written by Moses much later than Job was written. The book of John emphasizes water baptism. Isn't water baptism for the kingdom saints of Israel and not for saints of the boc? I take it you believe John's doctrine is the same as that of Paul with no differences.

 

[LoneStar]

I would wonder how you'd explain the "endure to the end" in order to be saved. :idunno:

I'm not sure what you mean. What is everyone supposed to endure? You talking about enduring hardships in life or something else?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I would wonder how you'd explain the "endure to the end" in order to be saved.

Those words were said by the Lord Jesus when speaking about the events which will happen leading up to His return to the earth. By the context we can understand that He was telling the Jews that those who endured to the end of the great tribulation would not perish physically.

He told the same Jews who lived under the law that those who believed had eternal life (Jn.5:24) and He also said that all those to whom He gives eternal lofe shall never perish (Jn.10:28).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm not seeing why the date it was written could make a difference.

Do you believe that today anyone receives life when they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

 

[LoneStar]

Do you believe that today anyone receives life when they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

I still dont see why one book written before another was written matters.
Job was written before Genesis but doesn't mean the events written in Job happened before events written in Genesis. Admittedly when it comes to bible study I am not as up to speed as most here are and you have to lay it out for me.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not sure what you mean. What is everyone supposed to endure? You talking about enduring hardships in life or something else?

I'm not sure what I mean, either.:cheers:

 

[glorydaz]

Do you believe that today anyone receives life when they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

Life, but are they in the body of Christ?

 

[LoneStar]

I'm not sure what I mean, either.:cheers:

Ain't we a couple of dummies. :dunce: Just can't find good help these days. No worries sweetness, we'll get the hang of it.

 

[LoneStar]

Life, but are they in the body of Christ?

Now that's a good way to ask it. If you have some saved but not in the boc, then what was the purpose of creating the boc? I've heard tales of the boc being created to make Jews jealous. I have difficulty finding any jealous Jews.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I still dont see why one book written before another was written matters.
Job was written before Genesis but doesn't mean the events written in Job happened before events written in Genesis. Admittedly when it comes to bible study I am not as up to speed as most here are and you have to lay it out for me.

Why don't you answer my question and we will go from there? Do you believe that today anyone receives life when they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

The Scriptures indicate that those who believe that truth are born of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

Do you have any reason not to believe that if someone believes that truth today then they are born of God and saved?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Life, but are they in the body of Christ?

Here are the words of Paul addressed to the church at Corinth and ALL THAT IN EVERY PLACE CALL ON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (1 Cor.1:2):

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

I don't see how any believer is excluded from being in the Body of Christ, do you?

 

[glorydaz]

Here are the words of Paul addressed to the church at Corinth and ALL THAT IN EVERY PLACE CALL ON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (1 Cor.1:2):

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

I don't see how any believer is excluded from being in the Body of Christ, do you?

None that obeyed the Gospel....none that believe the Gospel of Salvation.

Believing Jesus is the Son of God isn't the same as believing he raised from the dead, do you think?

 

[Tambora]

None that obeyed the Gospel....none that believe the Gospel of Salvation.

Believing Jesus is the Son of God isn't the same as believing he raised from the dead, do you think?

I'm going with you on this one.
Scripture says if you don't believe Jesus rose from the dead then your faith is in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV
(14) And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 

[patrick jane]

Question #1.
Can a Jew be saved today in this dispensation that believes all James and Peter taught, but doesn't believe all Paul taught? Could they be in the boc by believing James and Peter but not Paul?

I say no, I don't think so, because the gospel of salvation is not found in Peter or James. Post resurrection, I think Jews can only be saved through Paul's gospel. While Jesus was on earth, Jews or anyone could be saved by believing He is the Son of God and repentance/baptism.

 

[LoneStar]

I say no, I don't think so, because the gospel of salvation is not found in Peter or James. Post resurrection, I think Jews can only be saved through Paul's gospel. While Jesus was on earth, Jews or anyone could be saved by believing He is the Son of God and repentance/baptism.

I have to ask if you think Peter believed Paul's gospel after Paul started preaching it? It's difficult for me to imagine Peter wouldn't believe and preach the same as Paul once he knew it was what God wanted to be preached to both Jews and Gentiles and was the only gospel that could save him at that time.

By the way, haven't talked to you in some time. What gun did you decide to buy?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Believing Jesus is the Son of God isn't the same as believing he raised from the dead, do you think?

Of course they are not the same thing. But you did not address my point that this is what Paul told all those that in every place who call on the name of Jesus Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

From this can we not understand that when Paul wrote those words all of the saved were baptized into the Body of Christ? And would that not include the Jews who received Peter's epistles:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​