ECT Can it be said that JTB prepared the way of Jesus and . . .

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New member
. . . . Jesus prepared the way for Paul?

Can we suppose that is what might have been ordained from eternity past for that when after Jesus had 'explained Himself' and was not received by "His own", there would be sent unto them another, as Jesus after Jesus departed, more closely related to them who would be given a dispensation of time to make manifest more of what Jesus was not able to perform; which would bring to a conclusion the account of God's saving works and ways for our benefit?

Clue: Who were His own that they would not be convinced at least by Jesus works.
 

patrick jane

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Banned
. . . . Jesus prepared the way for Paul?

Can we suppose that is what might have been ordained from eternity past for that when after Jesus had 'explained Himself' and was not received by "His own", there would be sent unto them another, as Jesus after Jesus departed, more closely related to them who would be given a dispensation of time to make manifest more of what Jesus was not able to perform; which would bring to a conclusion the account of God's saving works and ways for our benefit?

Clue: Who were His own that they would not be convinced at least by Jesus works.

Paul is a chosen vessel to deliver the gospel of grace to the Gentlies. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law.

Galatians 1:15 KJV -
 

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New member
this is really rich
-nice going
-but
-I would like to add
-that
-the apocalypse first written by john the baptist
-did prepare the way for Jesus
JTB didn't write the apocalypse if you believe he had already been beheaded by Herod long before it was written by John the beloved.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Good point, the rumors were not therefore exaggerated. He truly was dead.

The mission of reaching the nations with justification through Christ is the work that was greater than what Christ did in Israel, Jn 15. What God did to prepare the apostles were the incidents with Paul and Peter that broke down dividing walls that inhibited contact, Peter needing to start again a few times. It then became clear that the Christian message of justification from sins was portable enough that it needed no adaption from one culture to the next; it was trans-cultural.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
And, what is the apocalypse given through JTB?

if you read the oldest surviving commentary by victorinus
-you will see that there is no reference to the seven churches or antipas

if you read church history by eusebius
-you will find
-that he knows about some of the churches
-but
-doesn't connect them with the apocalypse
-nor does he know antipas
-even though he talks about all the other martyrs
 

Lon

Well-known member
it was not my idea
-but
-after 20 years of research
-I have concluded it is the only thing that makes sense
Naw, there are too many conflicts for that to even have been suggested in the first place. It is to be considered terrible speculation and outside of orthodoxy.
 

Danoh

New member
. . . . Jesus prepared the way for Paul?

Can we suppose that is what might have been ordained from eternity past for that when after Jesus had 'explained Himself' and was not received by "His own", there would be sent unto them another, as Jesus after Jesus departed, more closely related to them who would be given a dispensation of time to make manifest more of what Jesus was not able to perform; which would bring to a conclusion the account of God's saving works and ways for our benefit?

Clue: Who were His own that they would not be convinced at least by Jesus works.

Who were His own?

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In all that - the sense of verse 12 is ALSO "but as many" - of His own[/B-] - "as received Him."

In other words, His Own people - Israel...

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This is why so and so is wrong about who Matthew 4:16 is actually referring to.

The phrase "the people" is often a reference to Israel, kind of like saying "the Israelite community."

Matthew 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 4:13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

Zebulon and Nephthalim being two of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, thus, why the next passage...

4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

You don't walk up to a Gentile back then and say "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Rather, you say that to "the people" that had been prophesied to.

John 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

That same phrase - "the people" - tells one something about the so called "Great Commission" that far too many erroneously continue to assert the Body of Christ is supposed to be following...

Look at what Peter related to Cornelius about who he - Peter and the other eleven Apostles were sent to...

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

In other words, He came unto His Own people FIRST that THEY might FIRST be turned back unto the God of THEIR fathers, which was what this passage that follows was referring to...

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

It had been "His people" that that had been prophesied TO."

Luke 7:20 When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. 7:24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 7:25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. 7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Naw, there are too many conflicts for that to even have been suggested in the first place. It is to be considered terrible speculation and outside of orthodoxy.

sorry you didn't have time to list one or two of the many conflicts
-I would settle for why you think it is terrible speculation
 

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New member
why didn't he use the word antichrist?

Were all things made known to Jesus? No. Than why should we expect that all things were made known to JTB? JTB had one mission, i.e., to lay down the ground work for the coming mission of Jesus Christ. That's it, period.

Jesus had one mission, i.e., to usher in the government of God. He accomplished it and was translated on the MT with Peter, James and John witnessing the whole thing. His crucification being another issue.

As far as we know, aside from His familial relationship with Mary and possibly Zacharius and Elizabeth, Jesus demonstrated tha He had no religious affiliations with the religious crowd of his generation. When He came on the scene no one knew Him until He began doing miracles. Paul, on the otherhand was well known and more easily accepted, i.e., until he stepped of too many toes and then persecution visited him but not before He accomplished his mission which was to establish the Church. With that we might say that the Church replaced Paul leaving it with upholding the whole thing until Jesus' return. . . Hasn't done a good job, do you think? Why not, I wonder except it eventually set itself as being the kingdom of God; mother usurping Father's authority.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Were all things made known to Jesus? No. Than why should we expect that all things were made known to JTB? JTB had one mission, i.e., to lay down the ground work for the coming mission of Jesus Christ. That's it, period.
let's review the conversation
-I said john the baptist wrote the first apocalypse
-you said no, that it was the apostle
-I then asked why he,the apostle didn't use the word antichrist
-and this response from you makes no sense
 

Cross Reference

New member
Who were His own?

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In all that - the sense of verse 12 is ALSO "but as many" - of His own[/B-] - "as received Him."

In other words, His Own people - Israel...

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This is why so and so is wrong about who Matthew 4:16 is actually referring to.

The phrase "the people" is often a reference to Israel, kind of like saying "the Israelite community."

Matthew 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 4:13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

Zebulon and Nephthalim being two of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, thus, why the next passage...

4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

You don't walk up to a Gentile back then and say "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Rather, you say that to "the people" that had been prophesied to.

John 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

That same phrase - "the people" - tells one something about the so called "Great Commission" that far too many erroneously continue to assert the Body of Christ is supposed to be following...

Look at what Peter related to Cornelius about who he - Peter and the other eleven Apostles were sent to...

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

In other words, He came unto His Own people FIRST that THEY might FIRST be turned back unto the God of THEIR fathers, which was what this passage that follows was referring to...

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

It had been "His people" that that had been prophesied TO."

Luke 7:20 When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. 7:24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 7:25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. 7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.


Are you for it on against it? Why not just state your argument? Stay with the OP.
 

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New member
Can't you tell which from that?


Arguing over who "specifically" were His own is immaterial and non productive. We already know it was, with exception, the religious Jews. Leave it alone. The OP has to with Jesus preparing a way for Paul because Jesus could not accomplish what only someone like Paul could do in a required manner in which had to be done.

Wanna argue that or no? Which point?
 

Cross Reference

New member
let's review the conversation
-I said john the baptist wrote the first apocalypse
-you said no, that it was the apostle
-I then asked why he,the apostle didn't use the word antichrist
-and this response from you makes no sense

Sorry, I am not interested. I have an OP going on here that is far more important to our understanding of the issues at hand..
 
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