Can God lie?

[Derf]

If the old man is not destroyed, our rebirth / new creature would have an evil twin walking around.
One has to go before the other takes its place.

Eventually the old man will be destroyed, when one's body dies and is resurrected.

 

[Derf]

I don't see any mention of death in Jesus' explanation to Nicodemus.

Can anyone talking about eternal life and not mean something that is the antithesis of death? The whole passage is about life vs death (also called "perishing" or "condemnation")

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” - John 3:3-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:3-21&version=NKJV

Versus Paul:

For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart.For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you.For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. - 2 Corinthians 5:12-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:12-21&version=NKJV

And:

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. - Galatians 6:11-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians6:11-15&version=NKJV



I think the problem here is that the phrase "born-again" has been appropriated by Christianity to mean "made into a new creature."

Or maybe the problem is that you don't agree with most Christians in this area.

Once you recognize that, then "born again" in the context of Jesus speaking to Jesus becomes something different, and there's no reason to think it's the same thing Paul spoke of "just using different terminology."

What do you think born again means?

The problem is that Paul doesn't say that "we are His seed."

We're "fellow heirs of the promise." We are "Abraham's seed."

Wrong verse. Try this one:
Romans 8:16-17 KJV — The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

John 17:5 KJV — And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Are we to share in the glory Christ had with the Father before the world was? Seems like it, at least in some way.

In fact, Paul even goes so far as to say:

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. - Galatians 3:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:16&version=NKJV

Yes, we are in Christ, but that does not mean we are given a divine nature.

A new nature, right? And what is it like? Maybe like something divine?
2 Peter 1:4 KJV — Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

We have put on Christ, yes, in that we were baptized into Him.



"Brothers of Jesus Christ"?

Verse please.

Mark 3:35 KJV — For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
(I'm not willing to be called his mother or sister ☺)

We are not given Godhood by becoming Christians.

Agreed

We have become sons of God,

Agreed

but even as Adam was the son of God, and we are descendants of Adam, Adam was no more divine than any of his descendants. (Except Christ, of course, but He IS God!)

Agreed

I don't think that includes "divinity," ie, being God or a god.

No, but we are given the Spirit of God, and when we are resurrected, we will have a body like Christ's resurrection body and His Spirit giving us that new life. I don't think that makes us divine, but there is something of divinity at work in us giving us new life.

When one speaks of the "divine nature," it's referring to God's nature as "God."

Supra (partakers)

We do not become God simply because we become sons of God. Remember, we are adopted into His family, not His direct descendants like Christ was.

Right...that's what I said. But with His Spirit, and the eternality of life, we will be like Him. We will even judge the world and angels, like Him.

 

[Hoping]

Eventually the old man will be destroyed, when one's body dies and is resurrected.

That which will die and be put in a grave to be raised on the day of judgement is just a vessel.
It isn't who the man actually is.
Paul writes in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."...our old fleshly oriented self/body of sin is destroyed at its "immersion" into Christ's death at our water baptism into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-4)
He writes again, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."...illustrating again the end of the old fleshly oriented man.
The truly repentant, reborn of God's seed, are no longer fleshly oriented.
We are Spiritually oriented.

 

[Derf]

That which will die and be put in a grave to be raised on the day of judgement is just a vessel.
It isn't who the man actually is.
Paul writes in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."...our old fleshly oriented self/body of sin is destroyed at its "immersion" into Christ's death at our water baptism into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-4)
He writes again, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."...illustrating again the end of the old fleshly oriented man.
The truly repentant, reborn of God's seed, are no longer fleshly oriented.
We are Spiritually oriented.

Why raise it from the dead if it's "just a vessel"? Can you show me a verse that suggests it's "just a vessel" to be discarded?

The "old man" passage isn't good enough, because it only addresses the pre-resurrection body, not the post resurrection version of the same body.