can anyone please give me proof that Jesus Christ is real?

c.moore

New member
I have been dealing with this mythology teacher , and interviewing him on my tv and radio programs, and he gave incredible answers and question I don`t know to deal with them and if I let them be broadcast to the unbelievers and my audience it might prove to people there never was a real Christ and bible and religion is just a copy of pagan worship, and ancient customs.

So can anyone here please give me science evidence or other evidence that Christ lived outside the use of the bible or an religious form of information??

Please it must be logical evidence where can be traced or shown from people who have nothing to do with christianity and are not on any side just facts , and proofs, where no one can not say it is made up and please no stories, Just facts outside of the bible of Christ existance.

maybe their is bones or dust , clothes, or personal writting of Christ that can proven today he lived out side the bible or religious system.

maybe from the Egysiann side we can have evidence of the miracles of Moses or maybe someone can prove a millian people have really walked through the desert, and there is bones and writting of this all happening outside of the bible because non believers and other people have wrote about these biblical story and facts themselves to be trace to the bible as true facts.
Even the proof of mary existance if there is any please give me any links on this or proofs outside of the religion , and the bible on this please, it is so important.


This teacher has said there is no proof and no religion or scholar, priest , pastor, christian teachers can prove this out side of the bible, without using christian resources.


God Bless
 

c.moore

New member
This is a letter the teacher gave me so you can see where he is coming from, who also I am interviewing on tv and radio.

This is a loop that can go on forever and honestly it gets boring. I don't respect the bible, I don't see it as truth and I cannot be convinced, no matter how many scriptures I'm given that the bible is real because I know it is not.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

This scripture is nonsense, Christians use scripture all the time because they have nothing else, nothing real to stand on. Christians and Muslims say that anyone who doesn't believe in their lies are foolish. The only thing Christians see as proof and truth is biblical scripture, but the source, the bible, is false. The cross is foolishness and I'm not perishing. It is the Christian who reads this verse and don't even realize himself that is already perished, confused and frustrated. Scripture like the one presented keep you believing that anyone who talk sense to you is foolish. The moment you talk reality to a Christian they open the lie they call a mystery and start quoting scriptures that have nothing to do with reality. I'm going to start walking around with a Peter Pan script and start quoting out of it. Simple ideas like divinity etc. become the most complex for Christians to understand because all they know is biblical explanations and months can be spent on the definition on a simple word.
If you believe that I'm foolish for not believing in your Christ or cross etc., that's O.K. with me. The bible tells you to believe as a child, basically without a mind of your own. If I'm perceived as foolish to have my own mind and think as a mature man and not as a child believing in simple things like Santa Clause, Peter Pan and Jesus Christ, that's alright by me. "When I was a child I thought as a child and played as a child and did childish things, but when I became a man I put away my childish things." I don't believe in people walking on water, bringing the dead back to life, calling themselves the son of god and telling me I should give up my mind and take my power from myself and give my focus and money to some fabled so-called magician name Jesus Christ. These lies are for children. The believer accepts scriptures such as the ones presented as wisdom, not realizing that he is the one who foolishly accepts the cross, impossible miracles and the rest of the illogical lies as wisdom. A mature adult knows that such things like Christ, Peter Pan and the miracle of Santa Clause with rain dears flying through the air are nothing more than fantasy.
Please no more scriptures. Talk to me outside of that which has your mind blinded to reality. Do you really believe as a child in Moses and Jesus feeding thousands of people from one basket full of bread etc.? If so, I have a bridge called the Brooklyn Bridge I'd like to sell you.
 

Daniel50

New member
Jesus Christ is very much alive and real.
No doubt.

I was born and brought In a high caste Hindu background I had vision of Jesus Christ.
 

Aimiel

New member
C. Moore,

You have a choice. You can believe in Jesus, or you can ignore Him. He doesn't 'prove' Himself to outsiders. If He wanted to show Himself, so that people would believe in Him by sight, instead of by faith, He would have recorded His Ministry, and it would be broadcast on TV. He chose to live when there is no historical evidence (other than the words of men, written on paper) to 'prove' anything.

You have to believe in Him, in order to receive anything from Him. The proof that we have that He is Lord is the inward witness of The Holy Ghost, Who tells us that His Word is true. Those who don't hear Him, have refused Him, and will do so more and more, until their life is ended, and they are judged according to what they said. They obey thier lust. We must obey The Word of God.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Besides all of the eyewitness accounts, and the accuracy of the events? I don't think your teacher would believe even if a man was raised from the dead.
 

Aimiel

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

Besides all of the eyewitness accounts, and the accuracy of the events? I don't think your teacher would believe even if a man was raised from the dead.
:darwinsm:
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
c. moore,

Please ignore Aimiel! Post four may be the most idiotic thing I've seen anyone write on this subject.

You have however gotten a hold a real super duper idiot with this mythology teacher! His conditions are unreasonable and probably intentionally so.

Any extrabiblical evidence that exists will certainly have been seized upon and promoted by the Christian community for obvious reasons and conversely any such evidence would tend to be supressed or ignored by the nonchristian community so to demand that any evidence be presented by non christian sources is rediculous!

However, the evidence that you present does not have to look like it came from a overtly Christian source. What I would do if I were you is to get Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. The information in it is presented in a way that is very easy to quote and use in debates where citing sources might be necessary. It is not necessary to tell this ding dong teaher that you got this information from a Christian book. All the evidence presented can stand totally on its own and is independantly verifiable without ever having to reference Mr. McDowell's volume.

Another outstanding resource is Bob Enyart's Mount Moriah Video. It would give you tons of ammo but your silly teacher wouldn't give it the time of day because it's obviously produced by a Christian.

Anyway, I hope this helps!

God Bless!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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csmuda

New member
The historians tell us there was a man called Jesus of Nazareth who was sentenced to death by the govenor of palestine; Pontias Pilot. Historians accept that much.
 

Rolf Ernst

New member
C. Moore--Our job is to testify of His existence, to bear witness of Him.
There are secular writings from that period which refer to Him, Josephus being one of them.

The encyclopedia Britannica says much about Him. Check it out. They will also list sources, or a bibliography.

That being said, however, we MUST remember that those kinds of testimonies will be in vain. No one can truly know He lived--and still does live--until He is pleased to manifest Himself to that person, and He does so through the gospel; through the Scripture, and the preaching of it.

A person may research other sources concerning Him until they begin to believe that He did indeed walk upon the earth, but that level of belief is not the kind of acknowledgement that makes Him REAL to people. That comes only by the power of the Holy Spirit. So my answer to a person who wanted evidence would be, "My job as His ambassador is to declare Him to you. If He is pleased to make Himself known to you, He will do so through His Word and our witness concerning Him. If not, anything else will be in vain.
 

Aimiel

New member
Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Please ignore Aimiel! Post four may be the most idiotic thing I've seen anyone write on this subject.
What, specifically, if anything, did you find fault with in my post? Did you even read it? You provided references, but, beyond that, nothing. You didn't even consider the fact that these might not be readily available where Mr. Moore lives.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Aimiel

What, specifically, if anything, did you find fault with in my post? Did you even read it?

"He doesn't 'prove' Himself to outsiders. If He wanted to show Himself, so that people would believe in Him by sight, instead of by faith, He would have recorded His Ministry, and it would be broadcast on TV. He chose to live when there is no historical evidence (other than the words of men, written on paper) to 'prove' anything."

All of the above is 100% false, mindless and ignorant.

"You have to believe in Him, in order to receive anything from Him. The proof that we have that He is Lord is the inward witness of The Holy Ghost, Who tells us that His Word is true."

Complete, idiotic, unfalsifiable nonsense!

"We must obey The Word of God.'

True but contradictory to the rest of your post.

All in all your post was a complete waste of energy both to write and too read and now to copy and rebutt.
Why would you even say such things? If nothing else it displays colossal ignorance of the very faith which you claim allegience to. If you weren't aware that such resources existed you should have said that or else just kept quiet and let someone who knows what they're talking about speak up. As it is, you make yourself look silly and discredit the Christian faith all at the same time. It just doesn't make any sense.


You provided references, but, beyond that, nothing. You didn't even consider the fact that these might not be readily available where Mr. Moore lives.
Okay! No pot smoking while on TOL!!!
I gave internet links to purchase points for both resources, if he lives on this planet, FedEx can get them to him.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

C. Moore--Our job is to testify of His existence, to bear witness of Him.
There are secular writings from that period which refer to Him, Josephus being one of them.

The encyclopedia Britannica says much about Him. Check it out. They will also list sources, or a bibliography.

That being said, however, we MUST remember that those kinds of testimonies will be in vain. No one can truly know He lived--and still does live--until He is pleased to manifest Himself to that person, and He does so through the gospel; through the Scripture, and the preaching of it.

A person may research other sources concerning Him until they begin to believe that He did indeed walk upon the earth, but that level of belief is not the kind of acknowledgement that makes Him REAL to people. That comes only by the power of the Holy Spirit. So my answer to a person who wanted evidence would be, "My job as His ambassador is to declare Him to you. If He is pleased to make Himself known to you, He will do so through His Word and our witness concerning Him. If not, anything else will be in vain.

This is going to be off topic so I'll keep it breif but Rolf, this is rank herecy or it is a meaningless thing to say.

Do you believe that any such person exists that He would not be pleased to show Himslef too?

If you answered yes, you are a heretic.
If you answered no, then your above statement is meaningless.

Faith is based upon substantive evidence, nothing less. To suggest otherwise is intellectually (and spirtually for that matter) insulting and unbiblical.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

keypurr

Well-known member
C. Moore,
I was like you at one time in my life. I was about 19-20, and I was so confused with life that I doubted that the Bible was God's word. However a person came into my life and pointed out a few things to me. He started with the Second Chapter of Daniel. It wasn't long before my line of reason was passed and I knew that there is a Living God who loves us. Who else can declare the end from the beginning. Once I accepted that the Bible was from God, then the studies got serious to find out more about him. Knowledge builds faith and wisdom. It will not come overnight. But the search is well worth the time to find him. You can find him in the Bible. You will find the book interesting, confusing, sometime the pages look blank because you do not understand what your reading. That is what we all go through. But just look at the world, you know that something greater than MAN has been at work. For instance, who do you know that can make dirt? Teach a bird to fly? There is a God, and he has reveled himself to us in his Bible.
Some folks have never searched in the right places to find him, I think your teacher is one of them. Believe me, he is real and he loves you.
Yours in Christ, Keypurr (Bob)
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
proof tasking......

proof tasking......

Hi c.moore and all,


Whether Jesus actually lived on earth as a historical figure is certainly open for debate. I have read a few sources outside of christendom.....supposedley from the Talmud and Josephus,...but the latter I have heard is likely an interpolation added by a zealous christian. This remains to be a wonderful area of research.

Your teacher is correct in that christians primarily have their NT and their 'faith' in it and the Christ it represents (as their whle compendium of 'proof').
As far as Jesus being a living reality.....this appears to be an individual faith-experience. It does all fall back on belief/faith/trust.
Whether we can find objective substancial evidence that Jesus was a real historical figure...does not appear to effect faith in him....as he can still inspire as a 'mythological Christ'....on a subjective level. For some however.....historical proof is required.....to others it is not more important than the mythos of the Christ....that serves to inspire, illumine and teach allegorical truths.

One must also research whether he himself believes in Jesus because he was taught to as a cultural/religious conditioning - this also includes worship of scripture as being 'true'(which includes
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
proof tasking......

proof tasking......

Hi c.moore and all,


Whether Jesus actually lived on earth as a historical figure is certainly open for debate. I have read a few sources outside of christendom.....supposedley from the Talmud and Josephus,...but the latter I have heard is likely an interpolation added by a zealous christian. This remains to be a wonderful area of research.

Your teacher is correct in that christians primarily have their NT and their 'faith' in it and the Christ it represents (as their whole compendium of 'proof').
As far as Jesus being a living reality.....this appears to be an individual faith-experience. It does all fall back on belief/faith/trust.
Whether we can find objective substancial evidence that Jesus was a real historical figure...does not appear to effect faith in him....as he can still inspire as a 'mythological Christ'....on a subjective level. For some however.....historical proof is required.....to others it is not more important than the mythos of the Christ....that serves to inspire, illumine and teach allegorical truths.

One must also research whether he himself believes in Jesus because he was taught to as a cultural/religious conditioning - this also includes worship of scripture as being 'true'(which includes all its 'stories'). What if the meaning and value we place on these is self-imposed? Lots to explore here.

With faith there is only the substance of what is hoped for.....that being the evidence of a potential/actual reality that is invisible. Faith calls one to move beyond the sense(even intellectual) realm and seize/apprehend a spirit-reality/dimension of being. A person who says, 'Jesus is real to me' is speaking either by belief, experience or both...but its confirmation is always subjective based upon indidivual belief.

One may want to consider what has conditioned your teachers 'beliefs' and makes them different from your 'beliefs'(research the conditionings). Asides from any obejective historical evidence.....we are stark naked only with our beliefs/values/experience.



paul
 

Aimiel

New member
Clete Strikes Out

Clete Strikes Out

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

"He doesn't 'prove' Himself to outsiders. If He wanted to show Himself, so that people would believe in Him by sight, instead of by faith, He would have recorded His Ministry, and it would be broadcast on TV. He chose to live when there is no historical evidence (other than the words of men, written on paper) to 'prove' anything."

All of the above is 100% false, mindless and ignorant.
No, it isn't; your reply is, though. Why do you think that God doesn't 'show' Himself to the un-believers, so that they will know that He is God?
"You have to believe in Him, in order to receive anything from Him. The proof that we have that He is Lord is the inward witness of The Holy Ghost, Who tells us that His Word is true."

Complete, idiotic, unfalsifiable nonsense!
If it really were as 'idiotic' as you pretend, you might be able to prove that it is false. I can prove that it is, indeed, quite true:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Will He give anything to someone who is not pleasing to Him? He rewards faith, not doubt.

As to the second part of your quote of me...

The fact that we (believers) believe that The Word of God is true, every bit of it, is proof enough for me that it takes The Holy Ghost, giving us the truth, down on the inside of us.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.


Are you getting the idea that The Holy Spirit is necessary, in order for anyone to hear and to believe The Truth? That is the case. We have a more sure word of prophecy than the eyewitnesses that heard The Voice from Heaven say, "This is My Beloved Son..." and there is no greater word than His.[/QUOTE]All in all your post was a complete waste of energy both to write and too read and now to copy and rebutt.[/QUOTE]Apparently you suffer from some type of disease which makes you tire too easily, and whine too much. Maybe you should be given a pacifier so that you can take a little 'nappy.'
Why would you even say such things?
Because it is truth.
If nothing else it displays colossal ignorance of the very faith which you claim allegience to.
I believe you've done a far greater job of doing this than anyone I've ever seen.
If you weren't aware that such resources existed you should have said that or else just kept quiet and let someone who knows what they're talking about speak up.
Go for it. I'm not saying you shouldn't give resources, but maybe asking for some content is a bit of a stretch for your minature grey matter.
 

Aimiel

New member
Originally posted by keypurr

Once I accepted that the Bible was from God, then the studies got serious to find out more about him. Knowledge builds faith and wisdom. It will not come overnight. But the search is well worth the time to find him.
Bob,

Nice post. I like the attitude. I also like what John Osteen was fond of saying:

Great it is, to stand in youth, and dream a dream. But, greater still, to fight life through, and stand at the end and say, "The dream was true."
 

Poly

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Re: Clete Strikes Out

Re: Clete Strikes Out

Originally posted by Aimiel


Are you getting the idea that The Holy Spirit is necessary, in order for anyone to hear and to believe The Truth? That is the case. We have a more sure word of prophecy than the eyewitnesses that heard The Voice from Heaven say, "This is My Beloved Son..." and there is no greater word than His
There's nothing wrong with physical evidence in proving God. You make it sound as though we can't have this evidence and also be led by the Holy Spirit. I think God likes the evidence that points to Him.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

And the verse that was quoted earlier...
Hebrews 1:11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 
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