I noticed that when I first came to the forum.
Calvinism Is The Gospel, So Only Believers Of Calvinism Are Saved.
- Thread starter 7djengo7
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I noticed that when I first came to the forum.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
so what you're saying is that coming to the forum is the cause for noticing things?
[video]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=chris+tucker+jackie+chan+do+you+understan d&view=detail&mid=C44B498470B76AAAC7DEC44B498470B76AAAC7DE&FORM=VIRE[/video]
Most of the times it is deliberate but some times just plain miscommunication.
:wave:
thanks for funny clips.
Hello there Stripe
Greetings.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
I was channeling my inner Kathy Newman (/Jordan Peterson) :chuckle:
Rosenritter
New member
This isn't difficult math:
* If you awake to everlasting life, you are presently alive and continue to live for ever.
* If you awake and your life is not everlasting, you are presently alive but you are going to die again.
Daniel 12:2 KJV
(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
There are two groups given: one arises to everlasting life, the other does not. The second group receives shame and everlasting contempt, the first group does not.
If you are going to claim that the second group ALSO inherits everlasting life then you might as well say that the first group ALSO receives shame and everlasting contempt.
God's Truth
New member
They rise to everlasting contempt.
Contempt is a life not good, and everlasting is everlasting, like life.
No, not what you say.
Rosenritter
New member
Really? Where did you get that idea? Certainly not from scripture...
a) the context of the passage directly contradicts your assumption, "shame and everlasting contempt" is the contrast of eternal life, not the equivalent. If it meant "life" it would have said life.
b) other parallel passages define the "shame and everlasting contempt" to be a complete destruction by fire, even being consumed to ashes and becoming "no more"
Would you prefer that the scripture was written thus?
Because it isn't, but that is what you would need to support "everyone is raised to everlasting life" claim. And besides that, said claim is directly contradicted in a number of places, even the famous gospel of John:
John 3:16 KJV
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"Perish" is also the opposite of "everlasting life." Everlasting life is a gift but only for those who believe.
God's Truth
New member
They rise to everlasting contempt.
Rising is about being resurrected; and, contempt is going to be everlasting.
Rosenritter
New member
If the wicked were raised and the suffered the punishment of death (the wages of sin is death)... but the contempt was NOT everlasting, that would mean that at some point the contempt would be lifted and the wicked would be restored to favor. Yet we are told that the punishment of death (the second death) is an eternal punishment... it is never lifted nor revoked.
Besides, who holds the contempt? The answer is "God" who is the definition of eternal. The wicked are raised to judgment, they are judged and receive an eternal punishment that shall never be undone, and the contempt is never lifted nor reversed. No where in this do the wicked get granted eternal life, which is God's gift for the righteous.
GT, if you continue to argue on this you might as well just break out the knife and magic marker and make up your own bible version that says what you need it to say. Because you won't find anywhere that says the wicked are raised to eternal life in any normal bible.
God's Truth
New member
The wages of sin is a physical death.
How do you get that when they are raised to it?
Are you just confused or are you trying to confuse the Reader? They are raised to everlasting contempt and it is eternal.
I have no idea what you are talking about it. It sounds like you are desperate and making up things.
Rosenritter
New member
Absolutely. That's the meaning of the word "death." There isn't any other type of death unless you want to extend the meaning to metaphor.
The righteous are raised to eternal life. The wicked are raised to everlasting contempt: they are judged, sentenced, and punished by with the wages of their sin. Famous scripture, "the wages of sin are death." If the contempt was ever to be lifted then the punishment would also need to be lifted. Since the contempt is everlasting this also agrees with the eternal duration of the punishment (death.)
It would hazard that you were already confused before we ever spoke: taking a clear passage that contrasts "everlasting life" vs "everlasting contempt" and reading it as if it said "everlasting life" on both sides speaks confusion. It would be nice if this would clear up... but I suspect that you might value the "eternal conscious life in torment" too strongly. But maybe not.
"Everlasting life for the wicked" would be making things up. Jesus clearly said that everlasting life was a gift (not an innate possession) and it was only given to the righteous that believe on him. Was Jesus mistaken? John 3:16?
God's Truth
New member
Waking is not death, and everlasting isn't an end.
Rosenritter
New member
If you cannot respond coherently than it might be better not to respond at all.
God's Truth
New member
It is simple. The scripture says some will WAKE to everlasting contempt.
Rosenritter
New member
Congratulations, you have discovered the resurrection to the judgment. Now what happens to those who receive that everlasting contempt?
Revelation 20:14-15 KJV
(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.