Except that I have never said I wanted a child who is a victim of adult sexual exploitation and abuse to be arrested as a criminal.
Just because I think the new law has some inherent problems does not mean I think the old law was without problems.
California makes it legal for children to be prostitutes
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
Just because I think the new law has some inherent problems does not mean I think the old law was without problems.
musterion
Well-known member
Why do we need one?
Tinark
Active member
I would say age 18 is fine for full consent with anyone else 18+. For below that, 4 years or less age difference is reasonable (i.e. 19 year old with a 15 year old, 20 year old with a 16 year old should be allowed.)
16 year old with 21 year old starts to get into a situation where the 21 year old (or older) is a more mature adult and the risk is too high that they can manipulate their younger partner and take advantage of their undeveloped teenage brain.
The criminal penalties for a 21 year old with a 16 year old should be less severe than a 21 year old with a 14 year old, however.
There is no perfect solution. We need to have some standards to protect vulnerable teens and children from the influence of an older person who may be taking advantage of them.
Going back to the law, if a 16 year old prostitutes themselves out, whether out of desperation for survival or because they are under the control of an abusive pimp, they should not be arrested. Any adults (age 21 and over) should be arrested and given a reasonable jail sentence, along with any other adults involved in setting up the situation.
In fact, by not holding over the possibility of arresting them over their heads, they'll be more likely to come forward voluntarily to seek help and/or turn in those adults who took advantage of them (whether as customers or as pimps).
Tinark
Active member
You were criticizing the law that removed the criminal penalties against them.
The law is it was changed makes complete sense - whether through desperate circumstances or though others who wish to exploit and abuse them, they are in a situation where they are being prostituted out. They should not be arrested and processed through the criminal justice system but rather be taken in with kindness and compassion to get them help and put away those who have exploited them.
musterion
Well-known member
What if some legislature passed a law with no such age range restrictions? In other words, a 15 year old could have consensual sex with a 55 year old, with no penalty. Would you be okay with that?
Tinark
Active member
No, it leaves 15 year olds too vulnerable to exploration and manipulation by older adults for those adults' own sexual gratification. The vast majority 15 year olds do not have a fully developed/mature brain and as a result are too vulnerable to sexual exploitation and poor decision making. The science of childhood development is pretty clear on this matter about the extent of their brain not being fully developed/mature and the potential for life-long negative consequences of having been sexually exploited/manipulated by a much older adult at that age. Society has an obligation to protect them from that.
Tinark
Active member
False. The criminal penalties for the 55 year old in your example remain exactly the same as they were before. The criminal penalties were removed for a 15 year old who finds themselves the victim of sexual exploitation/manipulation by a 55 year old (in cases where the 15 year old was/is a prostitute). I can't believe there were ever any criminal penalties for a 15 year old who gets sexually exploited by a 55 year old in the first place and, moreover, that you advocate a return to such a sick system!
musterion
Well-known member
I wasn't talking about the adult.
Tinark
Active member
Then I stand by what I've stated earlier, if a 15 year old "consents" to sex with a 55 year old, and the 55 year old takes sexual advantage of the teenager, then why in the world would you arrest the 15 year old for being taken advantage of like that?
musterion
Well-known member
Why are you obtuse?
Tinark
Active member
I'm not the obtuse one here who is defending putting teenagers who were sexually exploited in jail. Obtuse doesn't even begin to describe one who holds such a position.
A 15 year old who is desperate enough and immature enough to prostitute themselves out and get taken advantage of by older adults who want to get their jollies off on an immature kid in a desperate situation should be given help and compassion and the authorities should work with them to put away those who took advantage of them, not be given jail time. This is so obvious I can't believe it is controversial.
musterion
Well-known member
There have always been scum who would take advantage of such a situation but that is not news and is not the point of this thread.
The news is, and the point of this thread is, that law just removed any negative incentive a teen might have had to prostituting herself/himself. A major downside to their whoring has been removed.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Musty seems to think that this law will open the floodgates to societal acceptable pedophilia. Bonkers I know but hardly surprising...
Tinark
Active member
"Their whoring", there you go again blaming the victim. If you think any teen would think "gee Mr. pimp, now that the state has made it so I can't get arrested for having sex with an adult, I'd be happy to work for you.", then obtuse doesn't even begin to describe your state of mind.
What actually happens is that the teens who were caught in these traps by pimps get told by their pimps "you turn me in, they'll arrest you too and put you in jail." It tells a lot about you that you support laws that keep sexually exploited children in fear of the authorities that should actually be there to help.
Bravo to CA for finally getting rid of such an arcane and backwards law.
musterion
Well-known member
As noted earlier in the thread, imbecile, a teen who is in no way coerced, forced or pimped into prostitution, but chooses to do so willingly, is not a victim. And such have and do exist.
Now, you may make the case that the adult who has sex with a free agent, freely willing underage prostitute victimizes her/him sheerly on the grounds of the age disparity, and I'd agree on those grounds. But as to a teen's being a victim after having freely chosen to be a whore...no, there's no victimhood in that, unless you're willing to allow they've victimized themselves.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if a 15 year old "consents" to paying for liquor obtained by a 55 year old and drinks it in full knowledge of the illegality of the act (underage drinking) should he/she be arrested/prosecuted/convicted?
glassjester
Well-known member
Isn't that exactly how statutory rape laws work, though?
glassjester
Well-known member
If you think pimps won't say to themselves, "Gee, California, thanks for creating an entire class of un-arrestable prostitutes for me to exploit," then obtuse doesn't even begin to describe your state of mind.