BRXII Battle talk

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logos_x

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Nineveh said:
So for you, where the Bible ends, at eternity, it really isn't. There will be something else God must do after He has set things to rights. By what authority do you add another chapter?

Nin...I don't know what you mean.

The New Heaven and New Earth are a reality in the last Chapter. The New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven as a bride. There are no closed gates in the city. Jesus says "Blessed are those who wash their robes clean, that they may have a right to the Tree of Life, and may go through the gates into the city."

The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come;' and whoever hears, let him say, 'Come;' and let those who are thirsty come. Whoever will, let him take the Water of Life, without payment.

I see absolutely no need to add anything or take away anything.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
logos_x said:
And the smoke of their torment goes up until the Ages of the Ages; and the worshipers of the Wild Beast and his statue have no rest day or night, nor has any one who receives the mark of his name. (Rev 14:11 WNT)
How long, exactly is the 'Ages of the Ages?' If you stop and think about it, making people to suffer in the Lake of Fire for ages (certainly longer than a century, at least) is enough of a sign that The Author meant forever, isn't it? I mean seriously, if they were going to be released after ages and ages, wouldn't they at least get evenings off? And what about holidays?
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
logos_x said:
Nin...I don't know what you mean.

You should. You need to go past where the Bible ends to make your theology work out.

The New Heaven and New Earth are a reality in the last Chapter. The New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven as a bride. There are no closed gates in the city. Jesus says "Blessed are those who wash their robes clean, that they may have a right to the Tree of Life, and may go through the gates into the city."

The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come;' and whoever hears, let him say, 'Come;' and let those who are thirsty come. Whoever will, let him take the Water of Life, without payment.

I see absolutely no need to add anything or take away anything.

Sure you do. Because God leaves the lake to the age of eternity.

You know? Kimberlyann confessed on another thread it was because someone she loved died that made her reassess another chance for those who do not repent. Not the Bible, but her feelings made her reassess her beliefs. I'll ask you again, logos, honestly, is that the same reason you have for clinging to translations that obscure plain intent and meaning?
 

red77

New member
Nineveh said:
You should. You need to go past where the Bible ends to make your theology work out.



Sure you do. Because God leaves the lake to the age of eternity.

You know? Kimberlyann confessed on another thread it was because someone she loved died that made her reassess another chance for those who do not repent. Not the Bible, but her feelings made her reassess her beliefs. I'll ask you again, logos, honestly, is that the same reason you have for clinging to translations that obscure plain intent and meaning?

Sickening -truly sickening, Kimberlyann had already made it clear some time back about her loss and you dredge it up here? Who on earth are you to say that the Bible didnt play any part in her thoughts or decisions? Quite frankly Nineveh you are one of the most cold hearted legalistic people I've encountered on a forum or otherwise....
 

PKevman

New member
red77 said:
Sickening -truly sickening, Kimberlyann had already made it clear some time back about her loss and you dredge it up here? Who on earth are you to say that the Bible didnt play any part in her thoughts or decisions? Quite frankly Nineveh you are one of the most cold hearted legalistic people I've encountered on a forum or otherwise....

If the people here are so mean why do you keep posting your garbage here?
 

PKevman

New member
Nineveh was only making the point that has already been made numerous times, that it is for purely emotional and not Scriptural reasons that one embraces Universalism.
 

PKevman

New member
red77 said:
Sickening -truly sickening, Kimberlyann had already made it clear some time back about her loss and you dredge it up here? Who on earth are you to say that the Bible didnt play any part in her thoughts or decisions? Quite frankly Nineveh you are one of the most cold hearted legalistic people I've encountered on a forum or otherwise....

Red you are a guy that likes to instigate trouble. When your positions are annihilated you revert to this kind of silly stuff.
 

PKevman

New member
logos_x said:
And the smoke of their torment goes up until the Ages of the Ages; and the worshipers of the Wild Beast and his statue have no rest day or night, nor has any one who receives the mark of his name.
(Rev 14:11 WNT)

Again, where does it say God gives anyone that does not know Him eternal life to facilitate and populate an unending fire?


Even your messed up translation cannot fully obscure the finality of the judgment in this text. It also says they have no rest day or night. The attempt to rewrite Scripture falls short yet again. When you stand before the Lord one day you will have to give an account for how you steadfastly REFUSED to listen to His Word that was presented plainly to you!

If the fire is NOT unending OR literal, why does it say that they have NO REST day or night?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
logos_x said:
So...you think that there can be no repentance after physical death. That is the whole thing with you isn't it. People can't have a choice once they die.

You have also said it is faith that saves us. This is false...we are saved by GRACE.
Note that I said salvation is through grace alone by faith alone.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,Now...I don't think it is impossible to come to faith after death. If that is what you believe, I would be intersted in why you do. Do you actually have a compelling scriptural argument for death being permanent in spite of the resurrection from death?

See...I know you don't. That is what makes your argument here so silly.[/QUOTE]
See, you are wrong.
Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Note that the verse says judgment, not "a second chance in the lake of fire"

Now look at this:
Revelation 20:13-15
13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Note that the dead are raised and judged BEFORE hades and death are cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing after this verse that says anybody in the lake of fire is resurected or gets out.

So what sins us to hell Logos? Is it the money we stole, the lust e feel for the neighbors wife, the disrespect we sometimes have for our parents? Whcih of these sins, sins that Jesus died to forgive so that God would never remember them, does God remember and send us to hell for?
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
red77 said:
Sickening -truly sickening, Kimberlyann had already made it clear some time back about her loss and you dredge it up here?

She seemed open about it, I didn't know it was "evil" to discuss what she said. Besides, that link was to a post she made yesterday.

Who on earth are you to say that the Bible didnt play any part in her thoughts or decisions?

Read her quote. In part, "But let me just say, I used to be a fundamentalist like many of you, until the death of a loved one caused me to question the doctrine of eternal hell."

About the only Biblical backup uni has is obscure translations anyway.

Quite frankly Nineveh you are one of the most cold hearted legalistic people I've encountered on a forum or otherwise....

All this from quoting something that was stated out in the open.

Instead of acting like a knucklehead, why not honestly answer the question I asked logos?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
red77 said:
Actually you DO have faith that the chair you're sitting in will support you, you dont know for sure that it wont break do you?
And Jesus didnt condemn Thomas for not having faith, he said blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.....
If I had reason to suspect that the chair might be broken then there might be an element of faith. As it is, it is a fact that the chair supports me. It is steel so I have no reason to test it every morning. The chair is there and it supports me.

If you don't like the chair analogy try this. I know for an absolute fact that if I have two banana's in my left hand and two banana's in my right hand that I have four banana's. No faith required. I am holding four banana's.

Jesus did not condemn Thomas but He did teach homas and all of us a very important lesson. Blesses in he who believes without seeing. None of us have seen Jesus and will not intil we die. All we have is faith that what the Bible says is true. Jesus told Thomas, and all of us, that faith is required.
 

red77

New member
PastorKevin said:
Nineveh was only making the point that has already been made numerous times, that it is for purely emotional and not Scriptural reasons that one embraces Universalism.

and that point has been refuted time and time again, it is not 'purely' emotional reasons that people 'embrace' universalism and you've been made well aware of the fact......there was no need to go dredging up someones loss on this thread like Nineveh did IMO especially as it had already been addressed in other threads.....
can you answer some of the DIRECT questions and answers given to you on this thread pastor?
 

red77

New member
PastorKevin said:
Even your messed up translation cannot fully obscure the finality of the judgment in this text. It also says they have no rest day or night. The attempt to rewrite Scripture falls short yet again. When you stand before the Lord one day you will have to give an account for how you steadfastly REFUSED to listen to His Word that was presented plainly to you!

If the fire is NOT unending OR literal, why does it say that they have NO REST day or night?

Then WHY does Knight disagree with you on the literalism of the fire???? One of you is wrong! Like it or not and dodging around saying thats a 'minor issue' doesnt cut it, WHY is there any disagreement among you?
 

PKevman

New member
red77 said:
Then WHY does Knight disagree with you on the literalism of the fire???? One of you is wrong! Like it or not and dodging around saying thats a 'minor issue' doesnt cut it, WHY is there any disagreement among you?

You're nothing but a blooming hypocrite. You say I don't answer direct questions and you answer my question with this? Here is the question that you refused to answer again:


If the fire is NOT unending OR literal, why does it say that they have NO REST day or night?
 

PKevman

New member
red77 said:
and that point has been refuted time and time again, it is not 'purely' emotional reasons that people 'embrace' universalism and you've been made well aware of the fact......there was no need to go dredging up someones loss on this thread like Nineveh did IMO especially as it had already been addressed in other threads.....
can you answer some of the DIRECT questions and answers given to you on this thread pastor?

I have given direct answers to anything and everything that I have seen that were directed to me. Please give specifics and in the meantime there have been far more questions asked by me throughout the Battle Royale AND this thread have never been answered from the Bible. You're a childish person and I will not be drawn into your little tit-for-tats. "You're not responding, no you're not responding, no you're not responding". I mean you have the argumentative skills of an 8 YEAR OLD red!

Good grief!
 

PKevman

New member
By what means do fallen angels receive forgivenness of their sins? Simple question that still has not been answered directly.
 

red77

New member
Nineveh said:
She seemed open about it, I didn't know it was "evil" to discuss what she said. Besides, that link was to a post she made yesterday.

There was just no neeed for it IMO, it was brought up in a spectualarly tactless thread by Just Tom which you're well aware of as well as other threads - so why bring it up here and now? It was already clear

Read her quote. In part, "But let me just say, I used to be a fundamentalist like many of you, until the death of a loved one caused me to question the doctrine of eternal hell."

and that makes the abandoning of a horrific doctrine any less valid does it? I wonder if any of you actually were forced to confront severe pain would be able to be so blase about it, whats more I know that Kim hasnt relied on her 'feelings' on the matter much as you would like it to be so to trash her beliefs as 'sentimental' or some such.....that isnt the case as many of her posts will testify to on this site......

About the only Biblical backup uni has is obscure translations anyway.

Yes of course, God doesnt say anything about working all things out within the counsel of his will, he doesnt will all men to find the truth, he actually created the world knowing that most of it was going to go to hell and he couldnt do anything to stop it.......


All this from quoting something that was stated out in the open.

Instead of acting like a knucklehead, why not honestly answer the question I asked logos?[/QUOTE]

why not act like someone with some tact and empathy, you may find it goes a whole lot further in witnessing to folk......
 

red77

New member
PastorKevin said:
I have given direct answers to anything and everything that I have seen that were directed to me. Please give specifics and in the meantime there have been far more questions asked by me throughout the Battle Royale AND this thread have never been answered from the Bible. You're a childish person and I will not be drawn into your little tit-for-tats. "You're not responding, no you're not responding, no you're not responding". I mean you have the argumentative skills of an 8 YEAR OLD red!

Good grief!

And I'm tired of the same childish tactics you employ to avoid questions, you have not asked 'far more questions' and are more interested in shouting over the internet than anything else, and it is not just me that has pointed this out to you pastor......quite frankly you only need to scroll back about the last few pages of this thread to see where answers given and questions asked have either been overlooked or avoided, I'll leave it to you to have the integrity to respond to them,

Good grief in kind :rain:
 

red77

New member
Pastor posts# 1737, 1739, 1740 and 1741 are awaiting your response, in post 1746 you post one of yours again saying you didnt have a direct response to your own post, please answer these - and then you may have soom room to start accusing others of 'childish' tactics and arguing like 8 year olds.....
 

PKevman

New member
red77 said:
Pastor posts# 1737, 1739, 1740 and 1741 are awaiting your response, in post 1746 you post one of yours again saying you didnt have a direct response to your own post, please answer these - and then you may have soom room to start accusing others of 'childish' tactics and arguing like 8 year olds.....

Specifically restate any question you think I have not answered throughout the entirety of this debate. I will not play your games. And you still haven't answered the question.
 
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