BRXII Battle talk

[Nineveh]

Personally, I don't believe there are ANY sentient beings who can't be transformed and saved

Right, so it's just like your "meditation for rapists" idea. So in the off chance you are wrong, what then? Eternal meditiation?

 

[red77]

An interesting side note: BR XII Battle Talk is the 2nd most replied to of all BR Battle Talk threads. And it's still going strong......

Well - given the subject at hand its not really too surprising.......!

 

[Balder]

Right, so it's just like your "meditation for rapists" idea. So in the off chance you are wrong, what then? Eternal meditiation?

Well, I already told you that if salvation is impossible for some people because they are so intractably evil, then simply not resurrecting them and letting them stay dead is the most merciful thing to do.

In Buddhist tradition, hell is not considered a permanent destination. It is a self-generated but impermanent condition that any sentient being may find themselves in, based on their delusion and negativity (aversion, ill will). Bodhisattvas vow to work for the salvation of all sentient beings and will voluntarily descend into hell to minister to the beings trapped in that condition.

 

[Redfin]

Hmmm.... no response to Post #1493. :think:

It's good to know that PK is acceding some points, even if only by silence.

 

[Aimiel]

Bodhisattvas vow to work for the salvation of all sentient beings and will voluntarily descend into hell to minister to the beings trapped in that condition.

:nono: Nope!!! There's a great gulf between Heaven and hell, and no one in Heaven can go visit, just like no one in hell can escape.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, snd desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Balder]

:nono: Nope!!! There's a great gulf between Heaven and hell, and no one in Heaven can go visit, just like no one in hell can escape.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, snd desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

There are different religious perspectives, some right and some wrong. In this case, your religion is wrong.

 

[Aimiel]

There are different religious perspectives, some right and some wrong. In this case, your religion is wrong.

Actually, it isn't my 'perspective' that is wrong; it is your complete rejection of The Truth. Jesus said that He is Truth. You have rejected His Words, not mine. I could care less if someone believes the 'way' that I do or not, or prays, worships or anything else like me; but those who reject Jesus aren't rejecting religion, they're rejecting God, in The Flesh.

By the way, Christianity isn't religion. Religion is reaching up to try to find God, Christianity is God reaching down to try to find those who will believe Him. Will He find faith in you?

 

[PKevman]

Hmmm.... no response to Post #1493. :think:

It's good to know that PK is acceding some points, even if only by silence.

Can you please tell me where in that post is a question or something that I needed to respond to? I am not sure what it is I am "acceding" to? Do you mean "CON"ceding?

Your theology is wacked and so are you if you see a question in there for me.

 

[logos_x]

:nono: Nope!!! There's a great gulf between Heaven and hell, and no one in Heaven can go visit, just like no one in hell can escape.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, snd desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Come on people...THINK!

The above scripture passage is NOT REFERING TO THE LAKE OF FIRE!

This is HADES...which is the intermediate state between death and resurrection.
The Pharisees believed in a very Greek kind of mythology...and Jesus here stood their beliefs on their head when He said the leper, Lazarus, would be in Abraham's bosom and the High preist in torment.

But...thanks for bringing it up Aimiel.

 

[Aimiel]

Come on people...THINK!

The above scripture passage is NOT REFERING TO THE LAKE OF FIRE!

C'mon people... THINK!!! I NEVER SAID IT REFERRED TO THE LAKE OF FIRE, DID I?

This is HADES...which is the intermediate state between death and resurrection.

Your point being...?

The Pharisees believed in a very Greek kind of mythology... and Jesus here stood their beliefs on their head when He said the leper, Lazarus, would be in Abraham's bosom and the High preist in torment.

Yes, and they both will have the same after judgement, as well.

But...thanks for bringing it up Aimiel.

Hey, don't mention it. Also don't mention the fact that you don't believe what Jesus said is Truth, merely a parable. Oh, wait, you didn't... I guess you're still not THINKING!!! :think:

 

[logos_x]

C'mon people... THINK!!! I NEVER SAID IT REFERRED TO THE LAKE OF FIRE, DID I?Your point being...?Yes, and they both will have the same after judgement, as well. Hey, don't mention it. Also don't mention the fact that you don't believe what Jesus said is Truth, merely a parable. Oh, wait, you didn't... I guess you're still not THINKING!!! :think:

Hey, Aimiel, I'm sorry...but I thought you were trying to say this represented an eternal and unchangable state after death. If you weren't, I apologise.

And, all of Jesus' sayings were parables...which conveyed truth, but many did not understand. In this case, it was squarely aimed at the Pharisees belief system. At any rate, if there is consiousness during the time spent between death and resurrection...still, the only way out of death is by resurrection...no?

Have a wonderful day!

 

[Aimiel]

And, all of Jesus' sayings were parables...which conveyed truth, but many did not understand.

So, when He told the servants to put water in the pots, what did He actually mean? Did He want them to put spirit in the pots or water? If water, then I believe that He meant that people actually go to hell, and then, after judgement, the Lake of Fire, also. If He meant something else, then we believe in two different Jesus'es. Yours is arbitrary, and doesn't make any sense.

 

[logos_x]

An interesting side note: BR XII Battle Talk is the 2nd most replied to of all BR Battle Talk threads. And it's still going strong......

:cheers:

 

[logos_x]

So, when He told the servants to put water in the pots, what did He actually mean? Did He want them to put spirit in the pots or water? If water, then I believe that He meant that people actually go to hell, and then, after judgement, the Lake of Fire, also. If He meant something else, then we believe in two different Jesus'es. Yours is arbitrary, and doesn't make any sense.

Mine is arbitrary?

Ok...let's see.
Just how did Jesus reveal the Father? As one who cares for sinners, and not as the Pharisees believed.

Am I wrong?

Now...I don't think Jesus was too interested in torturing people at all...more interested in having them reconciled to God, in healing them, and even sacrificed Himself...cut off from God in the process...to have THAT happen.

You say that Jesus taught that the Father has created, or will create in the future, an eternal Auschwich from which no deliverance and reconcilition is even possible, and people enter that upon physical death.

What is "arbitrary" here?

Can Jesus raise the dead? Does He, not Satan, have the KEYS to Hell AND DEATH? Does this mean all death...even the second death? If not, why not? Show me a scripture that says Jesus is NOT victorious, and that ALL the works of the Devil are NOT destroyed, Aim.

I don't believe God would consider an eternal torment is even remotely a good thing. I therefore don't think He would even think of creating such a thing. Is that arbitrary?

 

[Nineveh]

Well, I already told you that if salvation is impossible for some people because they are so intractably evil, then simply not resurrecting them and letting them stay dead is the most merciful thing to do.

The lake is death, in case you missed that.

 

[logos_x]

The lake is death, in case you missed that.

Conditional Immortality, then?

 

[Balder]

The lake is death, in case you missed that.

Do you mean "death"? You know, not dying and ceasing to exist, but continuing to exist forever in imperishable resurrected bodies in a state of unimaginable conscious torment?

 

[Aimiel]

And, all of Jesus' sayings were parables...which conveyed truth, but many did not understand.

So, when He told the servants to put water in the pots, what did He actually mean? Did He want them to put spirit in the pots or water? If water, then I believe that He meant that people actually go to hell, and then, after judgement, the Lake of Fire, also. If He meant something else, then we believe in two different Jesus'es. Yours is arbitrary, and doesn't make any sense.

I thought perhaps you missed my post.

After you answer my question, I'll answer yours.

 

[logos_x]

So, when He told the servants to put water in the pots, what did He actually mean? Did He want them to put spirit in the pots or water? If water, then I believe that He meant that people actually go to hell, and then, after judgement, the Lake of Fire, also. If He meant something else, then we believe in two different Jesus'es. Yours is arbitrary, and doesn't make any sense.

I thought perhaps you missed my post.

After you answer my question, I'll answer yours.

He wanted them to put water in the pots, Aimial

And...yes people actually do go to hell, and the second death in the lake of fire.

No one disgrees with that.

 

[Nineveh]

Do you mean "death"?

Did I misspell it?

You know, not dying and ceasing to exist,

That is your pagan idea of death, balder. Separation of body and soul is the first death. Eternal separation from God is the second death.

but continuing to exist forever in imperishable resurrected bodies

Never fear, those who reject God are not promised imperishable bodies.

in a state of unimaginable conscious torment?

And that is the fate of those who find themsleves willfully outside of God's presence with no hope, no salvation, no love, no joy, no kindness, no forgiveness... They will spend eternity with what they honor most.