BRXII Battle talk

[Nineveh]

Unis,

Balder is guilty of breaking the law. He is guilty and will be found so because he will be judged by his own merit instead of by Christ's Righteousness. You guys should be telling Balder he needs Christ before he is judged, because Christ isn't going to be there for him after. Christ promises to wipe away every tear, it seems you are all willing to shed one more for Balder.

 

[Nineveh]

You're not forcing anyone to take anything.

Sure you are. You forgive someone who doesn't want it. They are released form having to be repentant. You aren't being "kind" by doing this, you are hardening their heart.

It has to do with the disposition of your heart.

What does that have to do with withholding forgiveness? As I asked, "Why must one be bitter? Is that somehow a prerequisite for withholding forgiveness?"

 

[Solaris]

Unis,

Balder is guilty of breaking the law. He is guilty and will be found so because he will be judged by his own merit instead of by Christ's Righteousness. You guys should be telling Balder he needs Christ before he is judged, because Christ isn't going to be there for him after. Christ promises to wipe away every tear, it seems you are all willing to shed one more for Balder.

If Christ promises to wipe away every tear would this not include Balder's?

 

[Nineveh]

If Christ promises to wipe away every tear would this not include Balder's?

Christ didn't make that promise to those who reject Him. Rev. 21.

 

[Solaris]

Sure you are. You forgive someone who doesn't want it. They are released form having to be repentant. You aren't being "kind" by doing this, you are hardening their heart.

One can forgive another without their actual knowledge, if we're hurt by someone then often the hardest thing in the world can be to forgive, especially if they're indifferent. It takes courage and strength to forgive at times in this life

What does that have to do with withholding forgiveness? As I asked, "Why must one be bitter? Is that somehow a prerequisite for withholding forgiveness?"

I think the meaning here is that it can be so much easier to cling onto bitterness and anger than it is to forgive another, I think that much is clear for many of us

 

[Solaris]

Christ didn't make that promise to those who reject Him. Rev. 21.

In which case it would not be every tear then,

 

[PKevman]

In which case it would not be every tear then,

God will wipe away every tear from THEIR eyes is what it says. It doesn't just say God will wipe away every tear and stop. The THEIR is Christians. There will be no more crying in Heaven. Later on in Revelation 21 it is clear that there are many who will NEVER enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But you would dispute this of course. So let's focus instead on the constructs of your argument and see if it holds water.

If I have a room full of crying babies and I take six of the babies out of the room and into another separate room, and then I wipe the tears away from those six babies does that mean that I am wiping the tears of ALL the babies? NO. Only those six that I took into the room are the ones whose tears I am wiping away.

The blessings of Heaven only extend to the redeemed. In fact the Bible gives a clear description of the Lake of Fire as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", so we know that the tears of the unrepentant wicked will not be wiped away.

 

[Nineveh]

One can forgive another without their actual knowledge, if we're hurt by someone then often the hardest thing in the world can be to forgive, especially if they're indifferent. It takes courage and strength to forgive at times in this life

Emotional turmoil has nothing to do with forgiving or not forgiving someone. It's just as wrong to not forgive someone who asks merely because you are angry as it is to offer it to those who don't want it (angry or not).

I think the meaning here is that it can be so much easier to cling onto bitterness and anger than it is to forgive another, I think that much is clear for many of us

You didn't address the question asked Balder. "Why must one be bitter? Is that somehow a prerequisite for withholding forgiveness?"

In which case it would not be every tear then,

Why? Because God promised to wipe away every tear of those there with Him? Couldn't you glean that from the context? Jesus tells us there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth "outside" of His Kingdom.

 

[Balder]

Sure you are. You forgive someone who doesn't want it. They are released form having to be repentant. You aren't being "kind" by doing this, you are hardening their heart.

This is not always the case. Love can be quite powerful, Nineveh. There are many stories of people extending love and forgiveness to those who have wronged them, when the person hasn't asked for it, and the impact this has on the wrong-doer. I'm sure you've heard them, or known people like this. Their heart softens because someone is able to love them and relates to them from a heart of forgiveness. They are able to see their wrongdoing and smallness of heart standing out in sharp relief to the love that is being offered to them, and they open up. They change.

What does that have to do with withholding forgiveness? As I asked, "Why must one be bitter? Is that somehow a prerequisite for withholding forgiveness?"

What is your state of mind toward someone when you have not forgiven them?

 

[Ecumenicist]

God will wipe away every tear from THEIR eyes is what it says. It doesn't just say God will wipe away every tear and stop. The THEIR is Christians. There will be no more crying in Heaven. Later on in Revelation 21 it is clear that there are many who will NEVER enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But you would dispute this of course. So let's focus instead on the constructs of your argument and see if it holds water.

If I have a room full of crying babies and I take six of the babies out of the room and into another separate room, and then I wipe the tears away from those six babies does that mean that I am wiping the tears of ALL the babies? NO. Only those six that I took into the room are the ones whose tears I am wiping away.

The blessings of Heaven only extend to the redeemed. In fact the Bible gives a clear description of the Lake of Fire as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", so we know that the tears of the unrepentant wicked will not be wiped away.

A heaven full of good Christians who have no tears for those suffering eternal torment
while they enjoy paradise.

Very nice.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Unis,

Balder is guilty of breaking the law. He is guilty and will be found so because he will be judged by his own merit instead of by Christ's Righteousness. You guys should be telling Balder he needs Christ before he is judged, because Christ isn't going to be there for him after. Christ promises to wipe away every tear, it seems you are all willing to shed one more for Balder.

Balder bears the fruits of the Spirit, evidence that Christ works within him.

I'm far more concerned about your well being than his, Nin.

 

[Ecumenicist]

What did red77 do to get banned?

 

[Ecumenicist]

Oddly enough, you always seem to forget Loving God with your whole being comes before your favorite part to quote "love your neighbor".

I forget nothing. Loving God is expressed through loving others.

Of course you can forgive people who don't want it. You can cheapen repentance and forgiveness, why hold value for something you haven't any idea about?

Repentence and forgiveness are not the same.

Repentence is a process, forgiveness is an act.

Forgiving someone "you don't want to" is not cheap, it is very difficult. Forgiving someone
"you don't want to" requires Grace.

 

[Aimiel]

What did red77 do to get banned?

He asked what someone else did to get banned (discussing the reason someone was banned is a violation of TOL rules).

 

[Aimiel]

I forget nothing. Loving God is expressed through loving others.

You seem to forget that loving God is first expressed through obedience to Him. Calling His Word a lie doesn't express love, but rather hate.

 

[Nineveh]

Balder bears the fruits of the Spirit, evidence that Christ works within him.

I'm sure balder does display the fruits of the spirit you follow dave. He hates the Creator almost as much as you do. Birds of a pagan feather and all...

I'm far more concerned about your well being than his, Nin.

Why? Because your misery needs some company and balder isn't enough?

Logos, you keep hammering I was wrong about you believing "all are children of God", going to correct dave here or blindly follow after him at Balder's expense?

 

[Nineveh]

This is not always the case. Love can be quite powerful, Nineveh. There are many stories of people extending love and forgiveness to those who have wronged them, when the person hasn't asked for it, and the impact this has on the wrong-doer. I'm sure you've heard them, or known people like this. Their heart softens because someone is able to love them and relates to them from a heart of forgiveness. They are able to see their wrongdoing and smallness of heart standing out in sharp relief to the love that is being offered to them, and they open up. They change.

Um... no, not really. Unless you are talking fairy tails.

What is your state of mind toward someone when you have not forgiven them?

Most of the time it doesn't affect me at all. I don't lose sleep, I'm not upset. Would you like to answer the question now?

 

[Aimiel]

We have to warn others about hell, or else their blood will be required by our hands. I won't be responsible for the punishment of others, I want them delivered, so I will tell them of the danger. Except you repent, you will perish in flames. Repent! The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Today is the day of salvation. Now is the accepted time. Choose this day whom you will serve. Choose to serve The Lord. Choose life, instead of death.

 

[Nineveh]

I forget nothing. Loving God is expressed through loving others.

You seem to forget that loving God is first expressed through obedience to Him. Calling His Word a lie doesn't express love, but rather hate.

I'll only add that one can not love their neighbor unless they Love God first. Everything one makes up on their own in hope of being "kind" or "loving" is done in their own flesh for their own self righteous reasons. Much like you falsely reassuring balder he has the Spirit of God while rejecting that same God.

Repentence and forgiveness are not the same.

Repentence is a process, forgiveness is an act.

Forgiving someone "you don't want to" is not cheap, it is very difficult. Forgiving someone
"you don't want to" requires Grace.

I'd bother to reply to this, but what good would it do? You are by far much more merciful, wise and loving than the Creator you despise.

 

[Nineveh]

We have to warn others about hell, or else their blood will be required by our hands. I won't be responsible for the punishment of others, I want them delivered, so I will tell them of the danger. Except you repent, you will perish in flames. Repent! The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Today is the day of salvation. Now is the accepted time. Choose this day whom you will serve. Choose to serve The Lord. Choose life, instead of death.

Amen.