Blaspheming the Holy Spirit

[Nick M]

I was going to bring this up earlier, however I didnt because Paul would not qualify as having a knowledge of the Holy Spirit before his conversion to Christ, so his persecution of 'christians' would not be 'blasphemy against the HS'.

I don't think that is relevant. You are not to speak a word against the Holy Spirit. He did. And not in the way of "they are drunk on new wine" in the upper room. That isn't moving against the Spirit. Paul had Stephen executed for preaching by the Holy Spirit. Paul confessess he was a blasphemer and deserves to die.

As a side note, I notice those that can't admit they deserve death at judgment, also don't believe his gospel.

 

[freelight]

I don't think that is relevant. You are not to speak a word against the Holy Spirit. He did. And not in the way of "they are drunk on new wine" in the upper room. That isn't moving against the Spirit. Paul had Stephen executed for preaching by the Holy Spirit. Paul confessess he was a blasphemer and deserves to die.

As a side note, I notice those that can't admit they deserve death at judgment, also don't believe his gospel.

True, Paul was against the Holy Spirit, but not to his knowledge at the time, for he thought he was doing 'right'. The principle still holds with the assumption that sin against the HS can only be had when one has a true or perfect knowledge of the Spirit, then whole-heartedly rejects it...such having an eternal or final effect of a soul being eternally lost.

Paul had alot of peculiar notions and not everything he says is to be taken as 'thus saith the Lord',...he includes his own 'opinions' in his writings as well. He freely admits his personal revelations are 'his gospel', which I give him props for 'ownership'.

As far as deserving death at some future judgment day, why would I believe that, when I believe in the infinity of God's Love? Love does not condemn or harm. Love saves.

Only if I have convinced myself that I deserve death, might I adopt such a low estimation of myself, but I dont see that as honoring God, since his creation is 'good', and did you forget God's essential nature is Love?



pj

 

[lifeisgood]

The Lord Jesus Christ.

Be careful what you say. Jesus never gave you or me or anybody else any authority to judge others' heart and that is what you have been doing judging others' heart. You are not God, therefore, you cannot see what is in a person's heart.

No. I am not God either, neither do you want me to be God, trust me.

 

[lifeisgood]

True, Paul was against the Holy Spirit, but not to his knowledge at the time, for he thought he was doing 'right'. The principle still holds with the assumption that sin against the HS can only be had when one has a true or perfect knowledge of the Spirit, then whole-heartedly rejects it...such having an eternal or final effect of a soul being eternally lost.

pj

Agree.

 

[Nick M]

Be careful what you say. Jesus never gave you or me or anybody else any authority to judge others' heart

You are 180 degrees out. We are not to judge outward appearance, but the heart.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

I judge by the fruit, which is what comes out of the mouth.

 

[lifeisgood]

You are 180 degrees out. We are not to judge outward appearance, but the heart.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

I judge by the fruit, which is what comes out of the mouth.

That you agree or not, YOU CANNOT judge ANYBODY'S heart.

Why?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOD and ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART.

 

[freelight]

That you agree or not, YOU CANNOT judge ANYBODY'S heart.

Why?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOD and ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART.

Indeed, only God knows the thoughts & intents of the heart, he thoroughly searches the innermost parts of our being and truly knows all that is knowable.

As far as matter of doctrine or philosophy is concerned, points of view will naturally differ, since knowledge is 'conditioned' by perception. A right disposition is to come from a place of love, that does not judge, but observes with wisdom and discernment, so one can 'see' from the higher perspective.


pj

 

[freelight]

You are 180 degrees out. We are not to judge outward appearance, but the heart.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

I judge by the fruit, which is what comes out of the mouth.

We can judge, but only from a place of spiritual discernment, compassion and intelligence, plus being ever open to learn more about the situation, which is ever unfolding. One can often 'judge' unrighteously from a place of spiritual arrogance, religious pride and egoity, and not from the love or wisdom of God. Judging unrighteously is a serious matter, because you end up reaping ill effects from your own distorted projections. It might be wise to be a little more careful and spiritually aware before making any judgment, knowing that only God knows and understands all. If you can share that love, then you will do well to know how to treat others, and by doing so show yourself 'perfect' as your Heavenly Father is perfect. This perfection is realized by the demonstration of love. ( Matt. 5:38-48 )



pj

 

[lifeisgood]

It is speculative beyond the immediate context of this passage, what the final condition of one who committs this sin is, or if there is some kind of way to be forgiven for this sin. Weigh this against John's writings where he says the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin. It would seem in the providence of God's INFINITE LOVE....that a soul could be forgiven for any sin.

pj

My contention is that the one that blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not want to come back and will not seek the forgiveness of the Lord, just like Judas (never asked forgiveness, instead preferred to commit suicide).

Contrary to Peter (who wept bitterly) and the Lord forgave him and used Peter mightily.

 

[freelight]

My contention is that the one that blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not want to come back and will not seek the forgiveness of the Lord, just like Judas (never asked forgiveness, instead preferred to commit suicide).

Contrary to Peter (who wept bitterly) and the Lord forgave him and used Peter mightily.

Yes, that is one point of view or perspective. It depends on the capacity/ability of the soul towards repentance, if it will surrender itself to God, and if a soul can really make a final unchangable decision to reject life making itself truly 'dead' or 'non-existent' to life. Here we get into deeper metaphysics and ontology of the soul.

Granted your 2 examples above, we do not know that Judas may have later repented in the spirit-world and is now a committed disciple of the Lord. Peter happened to repent while he was alive, but he was just as much a puppet for Satan as any other while he was not minding the things of God. I have always proposed that a soul may be 'saved' as long as he has the capacity/ability/freedom to choose repentance. This would be the will of Infinite Love....and love would do all to make such a provision available. An important thing to consider.


pj

 

[Nick M]

That you agree or not, YOU CANNOT judge ANYBODY'S heart.

Why?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOD and ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART.

So then how are you to judge if not by outward appearance?

Matthew 12:34

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Luke 6:45

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

So, did you plan on any scripture to back up your lies?

 

[Nick M]

We can judge, but only from a place of spiritual discernment, compassion and intelligence, plus being ever open to learn more about the situation, which is ever unfolding. One can often 'judge' unrighteously from a place of spiritual arrogance, religious pride and egoity, and not from the love or wisdom of God. Judging unrighteously is a serious matter, because you end up reaping ill effects from your own distorted projections. It might be wise to be a little more careful and spiritually aware before making any judgment, knowing that only God knows and understands all. If you can share that love, then you will do will to know how to treat others, and by doing so show yourself 'perfect' as your Heavenly Father is perfect. This perfection is realized by the demonstration of love. ( Matt. 5:38-48 )



pj

Oh, shut up you nincompoop.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Granted your 2 examples above, we do not know that Judas may have later repented in the spirit-world and is now a committed disciple of the Lord.

pj

Jesus said that Judas was the "son of perdition." That settles it for me.

 

[Pierac]

“Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men” (Matthew 12:31).

When Jesus was accused of casting out demons by the power of Satan, when in reality He was doing it through the Power of the Holy Spirit, these accusers blasphemed the Spirit of God.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit can only be committed by someone who professes to know the Lord, as the Pharisees of old, or else had once known Him; and then turned against Him.

The unredeemed, who has NEVER known the Lord, cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit simply because they have no true knowledge of the Spirit.

The person that blasphemes the Holy Spirit is doomed!

However, the statements do not mean a blackslider cannot not come back to the Lord; but they do mean that one who has actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit, will have no desire to come BACK to the Lord, but in fact, will continue to oppose Him.

Anyone who desires to come to the Lord, which desire is placed there by the Holy Spirit can do so (Rev. 22:17).

Mat 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mar 3:29 But, whosoever shall revile against the Holy Spirit, hath no forgiveness, unto times age-abiding,—but is guilty of an age-abiding sin:

The Messianic age of Jesus and our Present age.

Listen to the maidservant... She knows the love of God....

2Sa 14:14 "For we will surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again. Yet God does not take away life, but plans ways so that the banished one will not be cast out from him.



Paul

 

[Nick M]

Jesus said that Judas was the "son of perdition." That settles it for me.

godrulz also has a problem with Judas being chosen because he was devil. He needs it to show people sinning their way out of salvation.

 

[Letsargue]

Jesus said that Judas was the "son of perdition." That settles it for me.

Can the "flesh" be a son of Satan, or can the "flesh" be a Son of God other than Jesus Christ who was formed from the Word of God, who was God to start with? You seem to think it's the flesh that profits anything! - If the flesh doesn't profit anything , how then can the flesh be the recipient ( or ) the debtor of anything of God? How then can "Judas" in the flesh be anything. Only the Spirit, who ( was Satan ), and not Judas' flesh, having anything to do with any "flesh". -- John 13:27 KJV - And after the sop ( "Satan" entered into "him" ). Then said ( Jesus unto "him" ), That thou doest, do quickly”. Who was Jesus speaking to there; Judas or Satan; the flesh of Judas, or the spirit of Satan? - Now how settled is it? Can not any of you ever be swayed by what is really said by God? It was the killing the "only" flesh that was not flesh made from the dirt, but the Word. That's the sin! Judas had ( nothing ) to do with the death of Jesus, only Satan!

Prove that wrong!

Paul -- 062412

 

[TruthSetsFree]

“Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men” (Matthew 12:31).

When Jesus was accused of casting out demons by the power of Satan, when in reality He was doing it through the Power of the Holy Spirit, these accusers blasphemed the Spirit of God.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit can only be committed by someone who professes to know the Lord, as the Pharisees of old, or else had once known Him; and then turned against Him.

The unredeemed, who has NEVER known the Lord, cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit simply because they have no true knowledge of the Spirit.

The person that blasphemes the Holy Spirit is doomed!

However, the statements do not mean a blackslider cannot not come back to the Lord; but they do mean that one who has actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit, will have no desire to come BACK to the Lord, but in fact, will continue to oppose Him.

Anyone who desires to come to the Lord, which desire is placed there by the Holy Spirit can do so (Rev. 22:17).

the only unforgivable sin is not accepting the forgiveness of our sins through Christ​

this is only alluded to here, not explicitly stated, but it is true just the same

the CatholicChurch teaches this

it is what is in the heart and soul that can condemn NOT what is on someone's lips.

that being said, it can be presumed that only someone who KNOWS Jesus is the truth

and rejects him anyway would say

what the people in that psg say

 

[Letsargue]

the only unforgivable sin is not accepting the forgiveness of our sins through Christ​

this is only alluded to here, not explicitly stated, but it is true just the same

the CatholicChurch teaches this

it is what is in the heart and soul that can condemn NOT what is on someone's lips.

that being said, it can be presumed that only someone who KNOWS Jesus is the truth

and rejects him anyway would say

what the people in that psg say

God, God, God did not say that!

God said speaking "( evil )" of the Holy Ghost, that's what God said!
And still there is "( repentance )", and that does away with that curse, unless you think that blaspheming is more "powerful" than repentance! It's the Gospel that is the "Power" to overcome all, "all", "( All )" sins! You most likely do keep all the Gentiles under the curse, because there is no one who has not blasphemed the Holy Ghost in some way a thousand times. Nooo! You can't accept that either.

Paul -- 062412

 

[Bright Raven]

The blasphemy of the Spirit in the New Testament was attributing the works of Jesus to that of the devil. The only thing that can be attributed to blaspheming the Spirit is the outright rejection of Jesus.

 

[Eeset]

When a person speaks of things they do not know they speak from darkness.