Biblical and Political Arguments Against Democracy

[Jefferson]

Biblical and Political Arguments Against Democracy

Tuesday November 7th, 2006.

Summary:

Biblical Arguments Against Democracy:
· The majority is evil Mat. 7.
· "...wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and... many... go in by it." Mat. 7:13
· "...narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Mat.7:14
· Since the majority is evil, majority rule is guaranteed, over time, to be evil.
· So majority rule, on average, hastens government's descent into wickedness.
· Since the majority is evil, once a democratic government becomes evil, virtually nothing can restore it.
· While individuals often repent and turn toward God, the masses rarely do, especially not of their own leading.
· The King may not privatize land or water transport infrastructure because human rights depend upon such.
· As in the modern vernacular, the Bible calls governing officials "authorities." Rom. 13 Titus 3 Luke 12 Acts 16
· Government authority does not imply majority rule, but rule over the majority. Rom. 13
· Democracy promotes arrogance, suggesting to people that the governing leaders should obey them.
· Democracy: people obey the gov't, which obeys the people, who obey the gov't, which obey the people, etc.
· Circular authority suffers from the same weakness as circular reasoning: both lack a valid foundation.
· Democracy promotes arrogance suggesting to people that they should be able to lord it over their neighbors.
·"Better to live under one tyrant 3,000 miles away, than 3,000 tyrants one mile away." -The Patriot movie
· The King may not privatize land or water transport infrastructure because human rights depend upon such.
· True authority, like water, flows downhill not up, not from the people to rulers but from rulers down. Num. 27
· Authority flows from God, through government, to men and passes through parents to reach children.
· "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities..."
· For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
· "Governing authorities" are from God and each official should act as "God's minister" Rom. 13.
· God has appointed all authority structures¾of parents, ministers, and governing officials.
· v. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and... will bring judgment on themselves.
· v. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good,
· God never established governance by committee, but governance by individuals.
· The desire to rule over others (Mat. 20, Mark 10) lurks among the vulgar lusts (Mat. 20; Mark 9; 10).
· Democracy exalts the vice of brazen self-promotion to the center of public life.
· In denial of Scripture, leftists believe men are basically good and so support rule by the people.
· Leftists inflate individual authority to release men from the restraint of government, church, and family.
· Man's inherent sinfulness indicates that democracy will systematically worsen government.
· Unlike majorities, even wicked individuals, i.e. Pilate, may decide justly, for their own reputation's sake.
· Voting negatives: Num. 27 & rep. Of the people, Numbers, rebellion of Korah...
· Elections "by smooth words and [with] flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple." Rom. 16
· Acluin's Letter to Charlamagne 800 AD foolishly states "the voice of the people is the voice of God."
· President Millard Fillmore rightly said, "May God save the country, for it is obvious the people will not."
· The forces of Hell love democracy, including Hillary, Homosexuals, Humanists, and Hollywood.
· Because the majority is evil Mat. 7, democracy, that is, majority rule is inherently an evil government system.
· In a monarchy the king is likely to be corrupt, but he does not legalize his behavior.
· In a democracy everyone is made king, and laws are changed to permit wicked behavior.
· Since the majority is evil Mat. 7, democracy, that is, majority rule is inherently an evil government system.

Today's Resources: Also consider political arguments against democracy, and representative republics, at our website, ShadowGov.com, paying special attention to the biblical apologetic and the political defense of our proposed new Constitution of America!

 

[Aethril]

Quote

Quote

My favorite quote, "Children do not vote to give their parents authority over them and neither should our people vote to give authority over the government".

 

[aharvey]

Haphazardly selected BAAD:

Biblical Arguments Against Democracy:

· Elections "by smooth words and [with] flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple." Rom. 16

Actual KJV quote:

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

That's quite a range ya got there!

 

[Aethril]

Haphazardly selected BAAD:

Actual KJV quote:

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

That's quite a range ya got there!

Actual NKJV quote:

18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus... by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Range, what range... home on the range?

 

[aharvey]

Actual NKJV quote:

18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus... by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Range, what range... home on the range?

Let's see, who are "those who are such" in NKJV?

17Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

So just the same as KJV. Equating 'those' with 'elections,' and claiming that as a BAAD: that's quite a range!

Here, try it yourself. My random number generator (Excel function =RANDBETWEEN(1,19), for the number of biblical references in the list) just gave me a 7:

· Government authority does not imply majority rule, but rule over the majority. Rom. 13

Take a look at Rom 13 and construct that BAAD from Rom 13.

 

[Aethril]

Let's see, who are "those who are such" in NKJV?

17Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

So just the same as KJV. Equating 'those' with 'elections,' and claiming that as a BAAD: that's quite a range!

Here, try it yourself. My random number generator (Excel function =RANDBETWEEN(1,19), for the number of biblical references in the list) just gave me a 7:



Take a look at Rom 13 and construct that BAAD from Rom 13.

Hmmm, your questions are so easy, could this be a trick?
"those who cause divisions and offenses" sounds like democracy to me.
Rom 13 starts out with, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities". Simple enough.

 

[kmoney]

You're trying to apply Romans 16:17-18 to elections and democracy?? :freak:

 

[Granite]

Arguments against monarchy: Ivan the Terrible, Ahab, Rehoboam...

 

[Nomad]

Oh wow...

Biblical Arguments Against Democracy:
· The majority is evil Mat. 7.
· "...wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and... many... go in by it." Mat. 7:13
· "...narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Mat.7:14
· Since the majority is evil, majority rule is guaranteed, over time, to be evil.
· So majority rule, on average, hastens government's descent into wickedness.
· Since the majority is evil, once a democratic government becomes evil, virtually nothing can restore it.
· While individuals often repent and turn toward God, the masses rarely do, especially not of their own leading.
[/quote=Jefferson]

That section is Matthew was talking about sin, which is the easy and wide path...not about the rule of the majority. So then you have no biblical proof that the majority is evil.

· The King may not privatize land or water transport infrastructure because human rights depend upon such.
· As in the modern vernacular, the Bible calls governing officials "authorities." Rom. 13 Titus 3 Luke 12 Acts 16
· Government authority does not imply majority rule, but rule over the majority. Rom. 13

I don't have the time, nor do I feel like I need to quote verses to tell you that God did not desire a King for the Isrealites, why would he want one over us now?

· Democracy promotes arrogance, suggesting to people that the governing leaders should obey them.

Flip it! Democracy promotes humbleness, suggesting to the governing leaders that they should obey the people. Factor a king in there and see where that one comes out...

· Democracy: people obey the gov't, which obeys the people, who obey the gov't, which obey the people, etc.
· Circular authority suffers from the same weakness as circular reasoning: both lack a valid foundation.
· Democracy promotes arrogance suggesting to people that they should be able to lord it over their neighbors.
·"Better to live under one tyrant 3,000 miles away, than 3,000 tyrants one mile away." -The Patriot movie
· The King may not privatize land or water transport infrastructure because human rights depend upon such.
· True authority, like water, flows downhill not up, not from the people to rulers but from rulers down. Num. 27
· Authority flows from God, through government, to men and passes through parents to reach children.
· "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities..."
· For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

So then what is the fuss about?

· "Governing authorities" are from God and each official should act as "God's minister" Rom. 13.
· God has appointed all authority structures¾of parents, ministers, and governing officials.
· v. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and... will bring judgment on themselves.
· v. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good,
· God never established governance by committee, but governance by individuals.
· The desire to rule over others (Mat. 20, Mark 10) lurks among the vulgar lusts (Mat. 20; Mark 9; 10).
· Democracy exalts the vice of brazen self-promotion to the center of public life.
· In denial of Scripture, leftists believe men are basically good and so support rule by the people.
· Leftists inflate individual authority to release men from the restraint of government, church, and family.
· Man's inherent sinfulness indicates that democracy will systematically worsen government.

Man's inherent sinfulness indicates that a monarchy will wither over the years

· Unlike majorities, even wicked individuals, i.e. Pilate, may decide justly, for their own reputation's sake.
· Voting negatives: Num. 27 & rep. Of the people, Numbers, rebellion of Korah...
· Elections "by smooth words and [with] flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple." Rom. 16

Praise the Lord I'm not simple!

· Acluin's Letter to Charlamagne 800 AD foolishly states "the voice of the people is the voice of God."
· President Millard Fillmore rightly said, "May God save the country, for it is obvious the people will not."
· The forces of Hell love democracy, including Hillary, Homosexuals, Humanists, and Hollywood.
· Because the majority is evil Mat. 7, democracy, that is, majority rule is inherently an evil government system.
· In a monarchy the king is likely to be corrupt, but he does not legalize his behavior.
· In a democracy everyone is made king, and laws are changed to permit wicked behavior.
· Since the majority is evil Mat. 7, democracy, that is, majority rule is inherently an evil government system.

Not only do I believe that your governmental views lack proper biblical justification (i.e. God didn't want a king for the Isrealites, the Matthew 7 verse is horridly out of context) but it also lacks proper historical circumspection.

The Isrealites tried a monarchy. It took two kings before they were split and then the Northern Kingdom basically mass apostatsized (I'm not sure if that's the proper form...) I fail to see why you would think a monarchy such as yours would succeed in a nation that hardly thinks itself from God when it did not succeed in a nation that was God's chosen people.

 

[Aethril]

You're trying to apply Romans 16:17-18 to elections and democracy?? :freak:

Remember Wednesday? That was a great day, you know why? No more campaign ads. No more, smooth words and flattering speech that deceives the hearts of the simple... like Granite. :freak: right back at ya.

 

[kmoney]

Remember Wednesday? That was a great day, you know why? No more campaign ads. No more, smooth words and flattering speech that deceives the hearts of the simple... like Granite. :freak: right back at ya.

Those verses have nothing to do with democracy, the government, or elections.

 

[Aethril]

Not only do I believe that your governmental views lack proper biblical justification (i.e. God didn't want a king for the Isrealites, the Matthew 7 verse is horridly out of context) but it also lacks proper historical circumspection.

The Isrealites tried a monarchy. It took two kings before they were split and then the Northern Kingdom basically mass apostatsized (I'm not sure if that's the proper form...) I fail to see why you would think a monarchy such as yours would succeed in a nation that hardly thinks itself from God when it did not succeed in a nation that was God's chosen people.

Does God desire a democracy for the U.S.?

 

[aharvey]

Hmmm, your questions are so easy, could this be a trick?
"those who cause divisions and offenses" sounds like democracy to me.

Hmm, no definition or description of democracy that I know of includes that. If anything, that sounds like what to expect when democracy is hijacked. But that's not really the point. How about including the entire phrase "those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned," and then explaining what this has to do with democracy. Think of it as a mental stretching exercise.

Rom 13 starts out with, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities". Simple enough.

Well, unless one of the central tenets, defining features, unintended consequences, or even vague characteristics of democracy is that it, unlike every other form of government, expects its citizens to not be subject to the authorities, that doesn't even qualify as an overextended range; it flat out fails to link Rom 13 to anti-democracy.

No trick questions on this end, just a fair bit of sleight-of-hand on the other end.

 

[Nomad]

Does God desire a democracy for the U.S.?

I honestly think that God is indifferent to the political happenings of the US. He cares for us to get to know Him better and carry out His will. Whether that is under a democracy, monarchy, communism, oligarchy or anything doesn't really matter.

 

[aharvey]

Today my random number generator spat out 14, which brings us to how Mark 9
supposedly tells us that "The desire to rule over others lurks among the vulgar lusts."

Let's see, Mark 9, Mark 9, where is there anything in Mark 9 about the desire to rule? Vulgar lusts? Hmm, this is about as close as I can get:

33 Jesus and his disciples went to his home in Capernaum. After they were inside the house, Jesus asked them, "What were you arguing about along the way?" 34 They had been arguing about which one of them was the greatest, and so they did not answer. 35 After Jesus sat down and told the twelve disciples to gather around him, he said, "If you want the place of honor, you must become a slave and serve others!"

Once again, that's some creativity to redirect this from the fairly obvious interpretation ("I'm the greatest apostle!") to a governmental interpretation ("I'm in charge!"). And better yet, to use this as evidence that Jesus was against democracy?!?

 

[Jefferson]

...Jesus was against democracy?!?

Yes. In a democracy, those who desire to rule over others campaign for office.

 

[aharvey]

Today my random number generator spat out 14, which brings us to how Mark 9 supposedly tells us that "The desire to rule over others lurks among the vulgar lusts."

Let's see, Mark 9, Mark 9, where is there anything in Mark 9 about the desire to rule? Vulgar lusts? Hmm, this is about as close as I can get:

33 Jesus and his disciples went to his home in Capernaum. After they were inside the house, Jesus asked them, "What were you arguing about along the way?" 34 They had been arguing about which one of them was the greatest, and so they did not answer. 35 After Jesus sat down and told the twelve disciples to gather around him, he said, "If you want the place of honor, you must become a slave and serve others!"

Once again, that's some creativity to redirect this from the fairly obvious interpretation ("I'm the greatest apostle!") to a governmental interpretation ("I'm in charge!"). And better yet, to use this as evidence that Jesus was against democracy?!?

Yes. In a democracy, those who desire to rule over others campaign for office.

Sorry, Jefferson, I don't see how Mark 9 shows or implies this in any way, shape, or form. Simply repeating the assertion doesn't count as documenting it (it's amazing how often I say that here at TOL).

 

[The Berean]

aharvey,

What's that creepy trilobite looking thingy in your avatar? :idunno:

 

[aharvey]

aharvey,

What's that creepy trilobite looking thingy in your avatar? :idunno:

It's an insect angel, of course! Actually, it's an upside down picture I took of a cicada in the process of emerging from its nymphal case. It is kinda surreal, isn't it? The avatar-size version doesn't do it justice.

 

[Granite]

Jefferson's misapplication of this passage is really mind boggling...if this is what he thinks passes for a biblical attack on democracy I'd say the case is more than slightly hollow.