Before the Fall, did God refer to the earth's surface as part of heaven?

[bob b]

Originally posted by Balder

Bob,

That's a nicely written article, but it does seem like you're reaching a bit here. Many cultures of the day, including ones immediately surrounding that of the Biblical authors, held the sky itself to be a firm dome.

You are entitled to your own opinion, and it is true that many believe that Moses was the author of Genesis, but newer evidence indicates that the actual authors of the parts of Genesis we are discussing included their signatures in the text, meaning that it was Adam who was the author of the first part, and subsequent cultures were only imperfectly reflecting his more perfect witness.

BTW, wasn't the solid dome idea that of the Greeks of 300-400BC? I will check that out.

 

[bob b]

According to a .edu source:

The ancient Egyptians thought that the sky was a roof supported by pillars. For the Sumerians tin was the metal of heaven, so we can safely assume that their metal sky-vault was made out of this material

Although I'm not so sure one can "safely assume", it appears that the more ancient cultures of Egypt and Sumeria may have viewed the sky as a solid dome. However, this might simply be the common process of humanity of turning authentic history into a myth. It has only taken a few hundred years for this to happen to American history and only less than 150 to do the same in biology.

 

[bob b]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

Peter suggests a worldwide flood. The flood in Noah's time was not worldwide.

I was taught in engineering school that water tends to seek its own level, so it is hard to imagine flood waters of any significant depth, which lasted over a year before receding, not flooding the entire Earth.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by bob b

I was taught in engineering school that water tends to seek its own level, so it is hard to imagine flood waters of any significant depth, which lasted over a year before receding, not flooding the entire Earth.

Me too and I had to change my mind. Genesis 7:11 recounts that the same day it started raining " ... were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, ..." The idea is that a lot of water (heated by magma) got added to the rain (geyser effect) plus a singnificant rise in sea level along what is now the mid-Atlantic Ridge. After all this the sea floor collapsed due to the pressure and reduction of counterpressure and the waters receded.

Genesis 7:4 God says " ... every living substance that I have made will I destroy (or blot out) from off the face of the earth." It appears He was not kidding.

 

[Bob Enyart]

TOL ideas make it into Walt Brown's book!

TOL ideas make it into Walt Brown's book!

Congratulations: to all who gave constructive criticism! Walt Brown’s website, and the upcoming 8th edition of his book In the Beginning, now mentions this "Heaven on Earth" interpretation of Genesis 1:8a and he credits pastors Enyart and Rodriguez for this idea. See the Bob's Writings section of KGOV.com to read the latest version of Bob’s article (and for links to the relevant sections of Walt’s website). Thank you TOL for your valuable suggestions!

Email: From Walt Brown to Bob Enyart on March 22, 2005:
Dear Bob, I like your proposal concerning Genesis 1:8a, and after much thought, have decided to include it in the draft of the 8th edition (and at our web site) as one of five possible explanations for Genesis 1:8a. In the attachment, I have credited Pastor Diego Rodriguez and you as the originators of this very attractive explanation. As you will see in Endnote 24 on page 316, a similar suggestion was made by Pastor Diego Rodriguez. I am writing a similar email to Diego and enclosing an up-to-date pdf of the canopy section of In the Beginning. Are there any changes that you feel should be made? (Notice that space is at a premium.) If both you and Diego would like me to forward to each of you the other's email, I will do so. That way you can correspond directly with each other. Thank you for sending me your explanation. -Walt

Again, thanks to TOL! -Bob Enyart

 

[Clete]

Wow! That's really cool! :up:

Will you be notified when the 8th Edition comes out?

If so, please make a point of posting it here so I can get a copy.

 

[Covenanter]

Bob,

I've just found this thread (fellowship week ad.) I started my own study from the engmatic "war in heaven" when preaching through Revelation.

If heaven is the dwellingplace of God (highest or 3rd heaven), that is not created, so the created heavens will be the dwellingplace of spiritual beings, while the firmament heaven will be the created universe.

I give some quotes, & a link to a study.

Gen. 1. "In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth." (v1) Here we have the spiritual & physical realms created. He goes on to detail the creation of the physical, material universe. On the second day He creates an expanse, called "Heaven" in AV & NASB & "sky" in the NIV. This heaven is the setting for the sun, moon & stars, created on the fourth day, and the birds to fly, created on the fifth day. In one sense we too are creatures living in the material heaven, for we live in the same place as the birds, & have learnt to fly, and a few men have travelled to the moon. But the Bible does not speak of earth itself in that way. And if God is there in the beginning, the highest heaven, the dwelling place of God, the third heaven is also there in the beginning.

There is also the physical grave, for all the dead bodies of men & animals, and the pit - the abyss. This is a spiritual prison for the souls of dead sinners & fallen angels. This is spoken of as "under the earth.
.........
As spiritual beings, people live both in the earth & the spiritual realm - the second heaven. We are "living souls" quite different from animals which have only physical life but no souls. Quite different also from angels who have spiritual life only, but no physical life.

Only as believers in Christ do we have access to God in Paradise - the third heaven, by the Holy Spirit.

War in heaven