nikolai_42
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What was actually, really and practically accomplished at the cross? If no one was ever saved, what could be said that was vitally and practically accomplished on Calvary 2000 years ago?
ECT At the cross...
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nikolai_42
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Running with that a little...did the Israelites of the OT have to accept the sacrifice the High Priest made on their behalf for it to be efficacious?
Justice was served for sin. God the Father accepted.
The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing.
Cross Reference
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Redemption of all mankind from the power of sin resulting from Adam's transgression was what was accomplished that a whole new foundation for living life was given to man and that he might have direct access to the Throne of God's grace and power; Life as God originally intended for man from the beginning.
nikolai_42
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Then what was the purpose of the Old Covenant?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
So practically speaking, what does that mean for the individual who has sin?
So if no one was saved, no one would understand it?
The Messiah was redeeming His own and in doing so was fulfilling the pre-evangelism.
The only mention of blood at the stake (cross) is in John 19:34. In the blood and water there is all that is needed for the redemption of His people and the application of redemption. Neither Mark, Luke nor Matthew mention blood at Calvary.
Cross Reference
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It was for bringing the favor [protection] of God with the promise of messiah.
The original covenant was intended for the Israelites and their descendents who entered the "promised land". There would have been no need for God to ever renew His covenant, as He did several times, had the Jews been obedient. Please keep in mind that even for the Christian, the "promised land" is not Heaven but Romans 8, Heaven being something greater.
nikolai_42
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What, specifically, was the meaning of "It is finished!"? What, specifically, did the Messiah complete (whether directly or indirectly) at that moment?
Cross Reference
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You are getting off track. Ponder more for understanding what is given you before asking for more. Redemption is not salvation!
What does being released from the power of sin mean to you?
nikolai_42
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But the Redeemer was promised as early as Genesis 3:16 - long before the world was even destroyed once by a flood. Why the intervening ages? Why not establish that new basis right away? Or in Noah's day (for example)?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Just probing Nick for more detail...finding out more detail of where his statement leads.
The word being translated is teleo, but it's probably not correct. The word 'shalam' was used and that means to give back, to repay or repaid. It's more likely because the words used by Messiah were Aramaic/Hebrew. So the Last Adam repaid the debt that was owed by the first Adam. The word teleo/finished has caused a lot of confusion, but the term salam/repaid is clear and precise.
PS repaid lines up perfectly with the term redemption.
PPS In the previous verses we are informed that Messiah had been stripped of His garments and that they drew lots. The fact he was naked and without alms at this point means the repayment was not in goods or cash, but in a precious currency.
PPS In the previous verses we are informed that Messiah had been stripped of His garments and that they drew lots. The fact he was naked and without alms at this point means the repayment was not in goods or cash, but in a precious currency.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Was Daniel 9:24 fulfilled?
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:24
Yup.
All was fulfilled in Him.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Citations?
Deut 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: