ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

[God's Truth]

so other than tongues

Do you believe God still answers prayers and that all things are still possible for those who believe?

no i am not setting you up like kayaker does. I do not desire to condescend anyone.

genuinely wondering your thoughts on whether and how God has changed his way of using his children and working through them.

i already see your view on tongues. So.

Thanks for asking mystic.

Oh yes God answers prayers.

I do not believe that God raises the dead, gives sight to those born blind, and makes the paralyzed walk, as He did during the laying of the foundation.

God made this world, and He made it so that we have to go to each other sometimes for help...a dentist, an eye doctor, a surgeon, etc.

I know God heals miraculously sometimes, but not all the time as He did during the laying of the foundation when He was testifying to the message.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Is your wonder wife afflicted? I believe you're caught up in that shame-based, boo-hoo voodoo theology... when I was a child, I spake as a child... Where is there one Biblical case (I'm setting you up, btw) where tears were involved in a salvation experience? I refer you to Paul's account in Hebrews 12:16 KJV, Hebrews 12:17 KJV.

kayaker

James 4:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

 

[kayaker]

Kayaker, I do not like people wrongly telling me I am upset when I am not;however, you are going over board.

I was talking to Charlie Brown, GTHence. I didn't say you were upset. You go overboard looking for abuse. By your stripes are you healed in your sado-masachistic theology. Ask the prophet Cross Reference! I wouldn't say you are upset, you're just afflicted. Now... tell me I'm hateful! You're post to prophet Cross Reverence made me jealous.

 

[Word based mystic]

Thanks for asking mystic.

Oh yes God answers prayers.

I do not believe that God raises the dead, gives sight to those born blind, and makes the paralyzed walk, as He did during the laying of the foundation.

God made this world, and He made it so that we have to go to each other sometimes for help...a dentist, an eye doctor, a surgeon, etc.

I know God heals miraculously sometimes, but not all the time as He did during the laying of the foundation when He was testifying to the message.

i have and i think everyone here has (Never) said that God heals everytime there is a prayer or someone asks.

i do also believe that God uses romans 15:19 n the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum (I have fully preached the gospel of Christ)

presently for this day if there is faith for the one or ones bringing the gospel. especially to a new people group.

(Some things in the laying of foundations I have not seen.)
others I have, whether through other missionaries or believers.

I just know the more we pray for the sick and believe for God to move the more % wise He does.

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth had this to say: It is edifying because the real tongues is a gift given. Just having a gift from God is edifying alone. If you are speaking gibberish, it is not edifying.

The pejorative aside, if you mind is not involved, only your spirit, there is no "edification" going on, per Paul's own words.

God's Truth wants me to order my wife around, and pretend that what I do and think saves me. So many things wrong with this, I will just let it pass . . . . . . for now.

God's Truth says: We can't just do anything we want if it is not scriptural.

If you are talking about "anything and everything," true. But God is sovereign over our error and physical sins. Shirley you believe that ?!

Are you going to blame God when you make a mistake?

The Bible says to watch our lives and our doctrines closely.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Look, try reading Romans 14, about the the question of meats. Who is the "weaker" brother? Answer, the man who refuses to eat meats. And why is he "weak." Because he is wrong. But what does Paul say at the end of that chapter? If this weak brother, the fellow who is WRONG on the issue of eating meats, eats anyway, he condemns himself, in spite of the fact that he it is righteous to eat meats. He does not have a scriptural argument against the eating of meats. Paul took care of that. How can he be wrong when, doctrinally speaking, he is right? You don't see the problem? Its there, in black and white.

You think just because you are doing something because you think you are pleasing God that it is okay, but I tell you, it is not so.

I was in a false denomination, and a friend told me to repent for getting in the false denomination. I said why should I do that? I was only in this religion because I am looking for God. I tell you, it matters. Humble yourself and repent for following falseness. The reward that you get is more than you can imagine.

 

[God's Truth]

I was talking to Charlie Brown, GTHence. I didn't say you were upset. You go overboard looking for abuse. By your stripes are you healed in your sado-masachistic theology. Ask the prophet Cross Reference! I wouldn't say you are upset, you're just afflicted. Now... tell me I'm hateful! You're post to prophet Cross Reverence made me jealous.

You are starting to speak strangely, not much unlike John W. I am pleading with you to humble yourself.

 

[God's Truth]

i have and i think everyone here has (Never) said that God heals everytime there is a prayer or someone asks.

I believe that the Apostles healed easily and miraculously, during the laying of the foundation, just as the Bible says.

i do also believe that God uses romans 15:19 n the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum (I have fully preached the gospel of Christ)

That is during the laying of the foundation.

The New Testament is of very special times, to say the least. God through Jesus Christ gives salvation to us, and God testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will (Hebrews 2:1-4). The gift of tongues is a gift given during the laying of the foundation of the church, and the foundation has been laid (Eph 2:20).

presently for this day if there is faith for the one or ones bringing the gospel. especially to a new people group.

I wasn't saved the day this man and his wife knelt down and prayed for me when I was sick. I was healed of my sickness that day, but did not get saved until over 20 years later.

(Some things in the laying of foundations I have not seen.)
others I have, whether through other missionaries or believers.

I just do not believe that God raises those who have been dead for a while, blind and paralyzed since birth. I just believe that God is more subtle and personal nowadays. As for speaking in tongues, that was a gift to believers to give a sign to the Jews. The sign has been given to the Jews.

The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.

I just know the more we pray for the sick and believe for God to move the more % wise He does.

God does miraculous things for us personally. However, God testified to what Jesus and the apostles did during the laying of the foundation. The foundation has been laid.

 

[Word based mystic]

a loving and scriptural rebuke i will take gladly and hope to be corrected if scripture corrects me with a good summary from someone. That is why i have recently joined TOL.

but I might have to start ignoring kayakers talking and humiliation on this thread and another. He rambles and is raving at times. i am concerned.

 

[Word based mystic]

I believe that the Apostles healed easily and miraculously, during the laying of the foundation, just as the Bible says.


That is during the laying of the foundation.

The New Testament is of very special times, to say the least. God through Jesus Christ gives salvation to us, and God testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will (Hebrews 2:1-4). The gift of tongues is a gift given during the laying of the foundation of the church, and the foundation has been laid (Eph 2:20).


I wasn't saved the day this man and his wife knelled down and prayed for me when I was sick. I was healed of my sickness that day, but did not get saved until over 20 years later.

awesome to see how one waters and years later another may reap.




God does miraculous things for us personally. However, God testified to what Jesus and the apostles did during the laying of the foundation. The foundation has been laid.

i definitely understand the premise
and your passion for your position and understanding of scripture is awesome.

 

[God's Truth]

a loving and scriptural rebuke i will take gladly and hope to be corrected if scripture corrects me with a good summary from someone. That is why i have recently joined TOL.

but I might have to start ignoring kayakers talking and humiliation on this thread and another. He rambles and is raving at times. i am concerned.

I am concerned for him too, because he wasn't always like that, not that bad.

 

[God's Truth]

i definitely understand the premise
and your passion for your position and understanding of scripture is awesome.

You encourage me in the Lord. Do you know how rare that is? Thank you.

 

[God's Truth]

Speaking in tongues was a gift given, a sign, given (Isaiah 28:11) during the laying of the foundation of the Church (Hebrews 2:4). It was a sign to the Jews (Acts 2:6). Speaking in tongues has served God's purpose, God has given the sign (1Cor 14:21), and God has laid the foundation (Eph 2:20). Speaking in tongues by the Gentiles showed the Jews that God granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life (Acts 11:18). Tongue speakers spoke mysteries (1 Cor 14:2); consequently, the mystery of the gospel has been given (Eph 6:19). Speaking in tongues is the language of angels (1 Cor 13:1), angels minister to humans (Hebrews 1:14). Humans are to understand speaking in tongues in earthly languages (Acts 2:6, 11). Speaking in tongues would be “stilled” (1 Cor 13:8).

 

[kayaker]

James 4:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

So, you're afflicted when you raise your arms in church with tears in your eyes? Or, are those tears of joy? You ever heard charismatics laugh when they're 'slain in the spirit'? I do indeed mourn for His return (Matthew 24:30 KJV). Have you ever seen the mentally impaired laugh uncontrollably, and inappropriately? Take a look at this poor fellow suffering from pseudo bulbar affect associated with multiple sclerosis (and there are other etiologies, btw), 5 min vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqm9MZMIeEE&list=PLX58o2YNINNBiyc8YicC4Xo51vXF9LFBu

How would you respond to this same poor fellow visiting your church while you have your hands raised with tears in your eyes, and your wonderful wife speaking in tongue, 2 min vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isRuieLDK80&index=2&list=PLX58o2YNINNBiyc8YicC4Xo51vXF9LFBu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTsmVNV5rUI

So, let's talk about the Corinthians considering 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, with John 9:1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in mind with particular emphasis on v. 2. Did God cause those afflictions? Then, where did they come from? Those are examples of people horribly afflicted with neurological disorders. Notice how the narrator can translate/interpret being familiar with this child's neurodevelopmental disorder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flf7irhXNWg

Sorry I couldn't provide a thorough clip of an adult with pseudo bulbar affect incessantly crying. But, I have personally witnessed such.

I know the charismatics think they've got something the great unwashed doesn't have... but, they're not suffering from such neurological disorders. We all know what literal blindness was, lameness, even palsy, hemophilia, and leprosy. I proffer you've unlikely been around those with severe neurological speech impairment, pseudo bulbar affect, gran mal seizures, autism spectrum disorder including Aspergers syndrome that's common in the Jewish population. They don't get out much, like refractory gran mal seizure victims who cannot drive. I encountered one afflicted with a speech disorder this week, her two siblings and father were also afflicted... her husband helped translate/interpret her words that I could not always discern. No obvious IQ problem, but definitely heritable. So much for speaking in tongue (singular). Healthcare professionals lay hands on them. The charismatics can't heal neurological disorders (show me the DNA), and mock such afflictions Biblically perceived as possessed with demons and devils. There is indeed a genetic component, and I do not deny a Satanic component infecting those not so afflicted.

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

So, you're afflicted when you raise your arms in church with tears in your eyes? Or, are those tears of joy? You ever heard charismatics laugh when they're 'slain in the spirit'? I do indeed mourn for His return (Matthew 24:30 KJV). Have you ever seen the mentally impaired laugh uncontrollably, and inappropriately? Take a look at this poor fellow suffering from pseudo bulbar affect associated with multiple sclerosis (and there are other etiologies, btw), 5 min vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqm9MZMIeEE&list=PLX58o2YNINNBiyc8YicC4Xo51vXF9LFBu

How would you respond to this same poor fellow visiting your church while you have your hands raised with tears in your eyes, and your wonderful wife speaking in tongue, 2 min vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isRuieLDK80&index=2&list=PLX58o2YNINNBiyc8YicC4Xo51vXF9LFBu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTsmVNV5rUI

So, let's talk about the Corinthians considering 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, with John 9:1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in mind with particular emphasis on v. 2. Did God cause those afflictions? Then, where did they come from? Those are examples of people horribly afflicted with neurological disorders. Notice how the narrator can translate/interpret being familiar with this child's neurodevelopmental disorder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flf7irhXNWg

Sorry I couldn't provide a thorough clip of an adult with pseudo bulbar affect incessantly crying. But, I have personally witnessed such.

I know the charismatics think they've got something the great unwashed doesn't have... but, they're not suffering from such neurological disorders. We all know what literal blindness was, lameness, even palsy, hemophilia, and leprosy. I proffer you've unlikely been around those with severe neurological speech impairment, pseudo bulbar affect, gran mal seizures, autism spectrum disorder including Aspergers syndrome that's common in the Jewish population. They don't get out much, like refractory gran mal seizure victims who cannot drive. I encountered one afflicted with a speech disorder this week, her two siblings and father were also afflicted... her husband helped translate/interpret her words that I could not always discern. No obvious IQ problem, but definitely heritable. So much for speaking in tongue (singular). Healthcare professionals lay hands on them. The charismatics can't heal neurological disorders (show me the DNA), and mock such afflictions Biblically perceived as possessed with demons and devils. There is indeed a genetic component, and I do not deny a Satanic component infecting those not so afflicted.

kayaker

People are not being afflicted because they are some far away descendant from a godless person such as Esau.

Paul commands you to stop with the genealogies.

Warning against False Teaching
1 Timothy 1:3 3 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.…

 

[Word based mystic]

i think kayaker might be wandering in myths and genealogies in relation to his all important salvation defining view on how people interpret or understand cains punishment.

probably reading and pursuing similar sensual and earthly thoughts like this http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/me...vingios_10.htm

or maybe similar pursuits such as

http://www.sherryshriner.com/angels/cain_jews.htm

i think kayaker might also be finding significance in the apocrypha and the Aggadah in reference to cains significance

Can't really tell what he is trying to put forth because he never actually puts forth his (full) inspired, exalted thoughts