ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

[God's Truth]

If you pay attention to the KJV translation, you may notice the difference between the singular "tongue" and the plural "tongues". KJV actually translates the singular tongue as a "strange tongue". The true speaking in tongue is the plural tongues spoken during the Pentecost. However much later on, another totally irrelevant tongue (strange tongue) was spoken by the Corinthians. They started to practise this strange tongue inside churches. Paul thus addressed the issue. Basically what Paul said that this strange tongue at best is a prayer said through the spirit which no humans will understand, including the prayer himself. It won't edify anything this way, perhaps the prayer himself. It this kind of prayer through unknown/strange tongue is not intended for humans, then better leave it between the prayer and God.

Paul actually specified how this should be restricted,

1 Cor 14:27-28
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

Notice that the above verse refers to the singular/strange tongue. However just like the Corinthians in Paul's day, today's tongue (singular) speakers don't follow this teaching. They claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit at the same exact moment they are choosing to disobey what the Bible says. That's the problem.

The nowadays tongue speaking is also commonly called a "prayer language.” Those practicing the false tongue speaking of nowadays, they believe they are speaking a prayer language, and that in this type of praying it is somehow deeper and more revealing about themselves to God, and more personal than praying with their native language with words they understand. However, that is not scriptural, and that even goes against the Word of God.

Calling the false tongue speaking a "prayer language" is from an error in understanding of the scriptures explaining speaking in tongues when no one is around who understands. It is important to realize that after the believers in the bible had the gift of speaking in tongues for the sign to the Jews...they kept the gift even when the Jews of other languages were not around. Therefore, the tongue speakers spoke only to God when they spoke in tongues they did not understand and when no Jews from other languages were there, because, God, of course, can understand all the earthly languages.

Again, if there were no one of other languages around to understand the tongue speaker, and if the tongue speaker themselves cannot interpret what they say, then they are speaking only to God, and this speaking edified (nurtures) only the tongue speakers themselves.

Tongue speaking edifies (nurtures) only the tongue speaker when no understands; they are edified in knowing that God gave them an amazing gift (the real tongues is an amazing gift). How edifying it is for oneself just to have a gift such as speaking in tongues; that alone is what edifies. It is a false edification when one is performing nonsense babbling.

Nowadays tongue speakers, while trying to copy cat the real tongue speaking as is in the Bible, they discount completely that if they do not interpret what they say, even when praying in tongues to God only...then their mind is fruitless. Surely, a fruitless mind is not something one should be aiming for in personal prayer times.

 

[Cross Reference]

<groan> non-knowledge spoken as fact.

 

[God's Truth]

<groan> non-knowledge spoken as fact.

...and that is exactly what you do.

Mere false attack is easy ain't it?

 

[Cross Reference]

...and that is exactly what you do.

Mere false attack is easy ain't it?

Problem for you is that it isn't false.

I have been a Pentecostal since 1947. You can't speak to me about anything I haven't witnessed __ both true and false and that includes why God does some things you can't find a reason for.

Now I will sit back and wait for you to call me "hateful".

 

[kayaker]

If you pay attention to the KJV translation, you may notice the difference between the singular "tongue" and the plural "tongues". KJV actually translates the singular tongue as a "strange tongue". The true speaking in tongue is the plural tongues spoken during the Pentecost. However much later on, another totally irrelevant tongue (strange tongue) was spoken by the Corinthians. They started to practise this strange tongue inside churches. Paul thus addressed the issue. Basically what Paul said that this strange tongue at best is a prayer said through the spirit which no humans will understand, including the prayer himself. It won't edify anything this way, perhaps the prayer himself. It this kind of prayer through unknown/strange tongue is not intended for humans, then better leave it between the prayer and God.

Paul actually specified how this should be restricted,

1 Cor 14:27-28
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

Notice that the above verse refers to the singular/strange tongue. However just like the Corinthians in Paul's day, today's tongue (singular) speakers don't follow this teaching. They claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit at the same exact moment they are choosing to disobey what the Bible says. That's the problem.

Great post! I proffer the Corinthian 'tongue' were vocalizations from those neurologically impacted by inbreeding (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV). Thereby, charismatics are mimicking vocalizations of the neurologically impaired. I occasionally use translators for the hearing impaired with peculiar vocalizations. Meanwhile, the charismatics cannot heal heritable neurological disorders as did Jesus (John 9:1, 2, 3, 4) and Peter (Acts 3:2 KJV). The vast preponderance of those possessed with devils and demons, who were healed of genetic impairments referred to as 'sins,' were suffering from heritable disorders undiscerned by the multitudes, although blindness, lameness, palsy, and leprosy had more definitive titles. "Issue of blood" depicts heritable hemophilia, a literal heritable death sentence, whereby young females achieved puberty and bled out. Only the carrier hemophiliac females survived to procreate that is, other than those females who were healed in those days.

kayaker

 

[jsjohnnt]

The nowadays tongue speaking is also commonly called a "prayer language.” Those practicing the false tongue speaking of nowadays, they believe they are speaking a prayer language, and that in this type of praying it is somehow deeper and more revealing about themselves to God, and more personal than praying with their native language with words they understand. However, that is not scriptural, and that even goes against the Word of God.

Nowadays tongue speakers, while trying to copy cat the real tongue speaking as is in the Bible, they discount completely that if they do not interpret what they say, even when praying in tongues to God only...then their mind is fruitless. Surely, a fruitless mind is not something one should be aiming for in personal prayer times.

Do you often quote that part of scripture that proves your point, but ignore those passage and thoughts that correct your thinking?

Certainly, the "private" use of tongues edifies the spirit of man, not his intellect. You seem to be unaware of this fact. I would refer you to I Cor 14: 12 ff.

Personally, I am not a "tongue speaker," but my wonderful wife is . . . . . . . and it is genuine, without pretense, and gives her a sense of spiritual health. I believe her experience is the same as mine, when I am lost in the songs of a worship service. My hands are up, often I have tears in my eyes, and all this, in a local Baptist church.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Great post! I proffer the Corinthian 'tongue' were vocalizations from those neurologically impacted by inbreeding (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV). Thereby, charismatics are mimicking vocalizations of the neurologically impaired. I occasionally use translators for the hearing impaired with peculiar vocalizations. Meanwhile, the charismatics cannot heal heritable neurological disorders as did Jesus (John 9:1, 2, 3, 4) and Peter (Acts 3:2 KJV). The vast preponderance of those possessed with devils and demons, who were healed of genetic impairments referred to as 'sins,' were suffering from heritable disorders undiscerned by the multitudes, although blindness, lameness, palsy, and leprosy had more definitive titles. "Issue of blood" depicts heritable hemophilia, a literal heritable death sentence, whereby young females achieved puberty and bled out. Only the carrier hemophiliac females survived to procreate that is, other than those females who were healed in those days.

kayaker

Good grief. What a biased and silly post, having nothing to do with anything other than your own petulant bias. "inbreeding," "hearing impaired," neurological disorders," "possessed with demons and devils," . . . . . wow, I am surprised you even know what these words mean . . . . . . . and "mean" seems to be the order of the day (as in "mean streak"). Ease up, fellow, and accept the possibility that you do not know all there is to know on this subject.

 

[Cross Reference]

Do you often quote that part of scripture that proves your point, but ignore those passage and thoughts that correct your thinking?

Certainly, the "private" use of tongues edifies the spirit of man, not his intellect. You seem to be unaware of this fact. I would refer you to I Cor 14: 12 ff.

Personally, I am not a "tongue speaker," but my wonderful wife is . . . . . . . and it is genuine, without pretense, and gives her a sense of spiritual health. I believe her experience is the same as mine, when I am lost in the songs of a worship service. My hands are up, often I have tears in my eyes, and all this, in a local Baptist church.

Have you read this paper. It might prove helpful:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108940

 

[jsjohnnt]

Have you read this paper. It might prove helpful:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108940

I am a little slow, but I clicked on the link, but found no paper. Help.

 

[Cross Reference]

I am a little slow, but I clicked on the link, but found no paper. Help.

I don't understand because I click on my copy and your copy and it came up in both instances.

This forum site is presently experiencing some untoward symptoms that have to do with the website host, to be sure. SXorry 'bout that.

Scroll down till you see this thread if all else fails. It is near the bottom. It answers much about Pentecost.:

"Jesus Christ the Baptizer"

 

[Word based mystic]

I don't understand because I click on my copy and your copy and it came up in both instances.

This forum site is presently experiencing some untoward symptoms that have to do with the website host, to be sure. SXorry 'bout that.

Scroll down till you see this thread if all else fails. It is near the bottom. It answers much about Pentecost.:

"Jesus Christ the Baptizer"

i got it
nice read.

 

[Cross Reference]

I am a little slow, but I clicked on the link, but found no paper. Help.

I don't understand because I click on my copy and your copy and it came up in both instances.

This forum site is presently experiencing some untoward symptoms that have to do with the website host, to be sure. SXorry 'bout that.

Scroll down till you see this thread if all else fails. It is near the bottom. It answers much about Pentecost.:

"Jesus Christ the Baptizer"

 

[kayaker]

Good grief. What a biased and silly post, having nothing to do with anything other than your own petulant bias. "inbreeding," "hearing impaired," neurological disorders," "possessed with demons and devils," . . . . . wow, I am surprised you even know what these words mean . . . . . . . and "mean" seems to be the order of the day (as in "mean streak"). Ease up, fellow, and accept the possibility that you do not know all there is to know on this subject.

ROFLOL! Tell you what Charlie Brown... uhhh, the last time I read 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, the notion of heritable disorders does seem to come to mind. Sorry that sorta rattles the timbers in your ancestry. So, how about wake up, fellow, and ask yourself why Paul included that verse if inbreeding had no impact upon the Corinthians. I'll be the first to admit I don't know all there is about this subject... how could Jesus & Co. perform all those genetic miracles, and modern medicine can't? Since folk were suffering from heritable neurodegenerative disorder like lameness and palsy, even blindness, is it not elementary reasoning those folk also suffered neurodegenerative communication problems like even hearing and speech impediments (Matthew 11:5 kJV, Mark 7:32 KJV, Mark 7:37 KJV, Mark 9:29 KJV).

These folk were EXCLUDED from the synagogue (John 8:15 KJV), contrary to Leviticus 19:14, btw. Jesus & Co healed such afflictions, and Paul welcomed said afflicted into church. How do you think those afflictions arose in those days? Round-up? Microwave ovens and color TV's? Maybe Genesis 9:22 KJV unveiled in Leviticus 18:8 KJV, think? Every poster here IS biased, and you've said nothing. Be biased then... What's your explanation?

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

Problem for you is that it isn't false.

I have been a Pentecostal since 1947. You can't speak to me about anything I haven't witnessed __ both true and false and that includes why God does some things you can't find a reason for.

Now I will sit back and wait for you to call me "hateful".

You are hateful.

 

[kayaker]

Personally, I am not a "tongue speaker," but my wonderful wife is . . . . . . . and it is genuine, without pretense, and gives her a sense of spiritual health. I believe her experience is the same as mine, when I am lost in the songs of a worship service. My hands are up, often I have tears in my eyes, and all this, in a local Baptist church.

Is your wonder wife afflicted? I believe you're caught up in that shame-based, boo-hoo voodoo theology... when I was a child, I spake as a child... Where is there one Biblical case (I'm setting you up, btw) where tears were involved in a salvation experience? I refer you to Paul's account in Hebrews 12:16 KJV, Hebrews 12:17 KJV.

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

Do you often quote that part of scripture that proves your point, but ignore those passage and thoughts that correct your thinking?

Certainly, the "private" use of tongues edifies the spirit of man, not his intellect. You seem to be unaware of this fact. I would refer you to I Cor 14: 12 ff.

It is edifying because the real tongues is a gift given. Just having a gift from God is edifying alone.

If you are speaking gibberish, it is not edifying.

Personally, I am not a "tongue speaker," but my wonderful wife is . . . . . . . and it is genuine, without pretense, and gives her a sense of spiritual health.

May God's Truth keep us close to Him and not something like false tongue speaking.

I would like to tell you to be a strong leader in the family and tell her to stop it.

I believe her experience is the same as mine, when I am lost in the songs of a worship service. My hands are up, often I have tears in my eyes, and all this, in a local Baptist church.

We can't just do anything we want if it is not scriptural.

 

[God's Truth]

ROFLOL! Tell you what Charlie Brown... uhhh, the last time I read 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, the notion of heritable disorders does seem to come to mind. Sorry that sorta rattles the timbers in your ancestry. So, how about wake up, fellow, and ask yourself why Paul included that verse if inbreeding had no impact upon the Corinthians. I'll be the first to admit I don't know all there is about this subject... how could Jesus & Co. perform all those genetic miracles, and modern medicine can't? Since folk were suffering from heritable neurodegenerative disorder like lameness and palsy, even blindness, is it not elementary reasoning those folk also suffered neurodegenerative communication problems like even hearing and speech impediments (Matthew 11:5 kJV, Mark 7:32 KJV, Mark 7:37 KJV, Mark 9:29 KJV).

These folk were EXCLUDED from the synagogue (John 8:15 KJV), contrary to Leviticus 19:14, btw. Jesus & Co healed such afflictions, and Paul welcomed said afflicted into church. How do you think those afflictions arose in those days? Round-up? Microwave ovens and color TV's? Maybe Genesis 9:22 KJV unveiled in Leviticus 18:8 KJV, think? Every poster here IS biased, and you've said nothing. Be biased then... What's your explanation?

kayaker

The incest was if a man married his Father's wife---it did not have to be the man's mother!

It would be incest if a man slept with his wife and his wife's mother.

 

[God's Truth]

Is your wonder wife afflicted? I believe you're caught up in that shame-based, boo-hoo voodoo theology... when I was a child, I spake as a child... Where is there one Biblical case (I'm setting you up, btw) where tears were involved in a salvation experience? I refer you to Paul's account in Hebrews 12:16 KJV, Hebrews 12:17 KJV.

kayaker

Kayaker, I do not like people wrongly telling me I am upset when I am not;however, you are going over board.

 

[Word based mystic]

Kayaker, I do not like people wrongly telling me I am upset when I am not;however, you are going over board.

so other than tongues

Do you believe God still answers prayers and that all things are still possible for those who believe?

no i am not setting you up like kayaker does. I do not desire to condescend anyone.

genuinely wondering your thoughts on whether and how God has changed his way of using his children and working through them.

i already see your view on tongues. So.

 

[jsjohnnt]

God's Truth had this to say: It is edifying because the real tongues is a gift given. Just having a gift from God is edifying alone. If you are speaking gibberish, it is not edifying.

The pejorative aside, if you mind is not involved, only your spirit, there is no "edification" going on, per Paul's own words.

God's Truth wants me to order my wife around, and pretend that what I do and think saves me. So many things wrong with this, I will just let it pass . . . . . . for now.

God's Truth says: We can't just do anything we want if it is not scriptural.

If you are talking about "anything and everything," true. But God is sovereign over our error and physical sins. Shirley you believe that ?!

Look, try reading Romans 14, about the the question of meats. Who is the "weaker" brother? Answer, the man who refuses to eat meats. And why is he "weak." Because he is wrong. But what does Paul say at the end of that chapter? If this weak brother, the fellow who is WRONG on the issue of eating meats, eats anyway, he condemns himself, in spite of the fact that he it is righteous to eat meats. He does not have a scriptural argument against the eating of meats. Paul took care of that. How can he be wrong when, doctrinally speaking, he is right? You don't see the problem? Its there, in black and white.