Are those Christ died for saved by His death before Faith ?

beloved57

Well-known member
The answer is absolutely yes. There's no Gospel of ones Salvation if that weren't so. There's no efficacy in Christ's Death/Blood if it weren't true !

Were going to present a host of scriptures that verify this most solemn truth. To deny this is perilous indeed.

Lets look at Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Now how does Paul state that these believers were Justified ? It's by His Blood, thats it. Believers were Justified by Christ's Blood, therefore saved from the penalty of their sins, how ? By His Blood. The word Justified here is synonymous with being saved, its the greek word dikaioō:


  1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
  2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
  3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be



Faith is how they come to know [subjectively] that they had already been objectively saved/justified, declared righteous by His Blood !

So yes, those Christ died for are objectively saved, made righteous, justified by His Blood, before Faith !
 

Nanja

Well-known member
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The answer is absolutely yes. There's no Gospel of ones Salvation if that weren't so. There's no efficacy in Christ's Death/Blood if it weren't true !

Were going to present a host of scriptures that verify this most solemn truth. To deny this is perilous indeed.

Lets look at Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Now how does Paul state that these believers were Justified ? It's by His Blood, thats it. Believers were Justified by Christ's Blood, therefore saved from the penalty of their sins, how ? By His Blood. The word Justified here is synonymous with being saved, its the greek word dikaioō:


  1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
  2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
  3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be



Faith is how they come to know [subjectively] that they had already been objectively saved/justified, declared righteous by His Blood !

So yes, those Christ died for are objectively saved, made righteous, justified by His Blood, before Faith !


Yes indeed! Those Christ died for were Justified / Reconciled by His Blood Rom. 5:9 before Faith, and even while being ungodly enemies:

Rom. 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is, the ones Justified in Eternity, before they ever come to repent, believe, have faith, or do anything else, shall be saved in the future experimentally, made Spiritually Alive in New Birth!

Rom. 8:33-34
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
 

JudgeRightly

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Echo chamber:

"An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered."

=

This thread
 

popsthebuilder

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(But wait, there's more.....)
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beloved57

Well-known member
Echo chamber:

"An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered."

=

This thread

Do you want to discuss the points I made in the OP ? Im looking for discussion of them
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Another scripture passage that affirms that those Christ died for are saved before Faith is found in Isa 53:10-11

10 [FONT=&quot]Yet it pleased the [/FONT]Lord[FONT=&quot] to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the [/FONT]Lord[FONT=&quot] shall prosper in his hand.[/FONT]

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant [Jesus Christ]justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.


In this Prophecy here Jesus Christ is the righteous servant, and He shall Justify many. How ? For he shall bear their iniquities. Thats how. The simple fact that He bare their sins, resulted in their being justified. The word justify is the hebrew word
tsadeq or tsadoq and means:

to be just or righteous. They are acquitted, no longer guilty before God, because Christ hath taken their punishment !

This has nothing to do with their faith or believing. This is a truth for them while they are unbelieving enemies !
 

Nanja

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Another scripture passage that affirms that those Christ died for are saved before Faith is found in Isa 53:10-11

10 [FONT="]Yet it pleased the [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Lord[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="] to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the [/FONT]Lord[FONT="] shall prosper in his hand.[/FONT]

11 [FONT=&]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant [Jesus Christ]justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.


In this Prophecy here Jesus Christ is the righteous servant, and He shall Justify many. How ? For he shall bear their iniquities. Thats how. The simple fact that He bare their sins, resulted in their being justified. The word justify is the hebrew word [/FONT]
tsadeq or tsadoq and means:

to be just or righteous. They are acquitted, no longer guilty before God, because Christ hath taken their punishment !

This has nothing to do with their faith or believing. This is a truth for them while they are unbelieving enemies !


Absolutely true Brother !

Those Christ died for, because He bare their sins Is. 53:6, it is by that fact alone, they were put into a right relationship with Him, being at peace with God even while being unbelieving enemies, because they never had their sins imputed to them as other people do, but they were imputed / charged to Christ Jesus their Surety Heb. 7:22 resulting in their Justification / Salvation from Everlasting!

Ps. 32:1-2
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

In God's eyes, His Chosen Sons Eph. 1:4-7; 2 Tim. 1:9 were always counted Righteous.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Another scripture that teaches us that those Christ died for are saved/justified by His death/blood before Faith is Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[or Justified/made right] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Being justified by his blood vs 9 and reconciled by his death are primarily the same thing, emphasis being put into a right relationship/standing with God. And it was while still being enemies/unbelievers !
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

New member
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Even the most righteous acts of the most righteous person is but rags with a woman's period on them to God.

John 10:8
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Jesus tell it like it is, even the most honoured of the Old testament Holy people are but thieves and robbers compared to Jesus.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

There is no comparison between man and God and Jesus is God. Without Jesus all are lost:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128427-What-ever-happened-to&highlight=
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Heres a verse of scripture that also declares to us that Christ death alone justified/saved them He died for [the elect] before they believed Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats what the resurrection of Christ evidences, the Justification of all those sinners He was delivered up for their sins .

We dont believe in the resurrection of Christ correctly if we dont believe it evidences the Justification of all for whom He died !

This Justification had nothing to do with mens faith or believing, its solely the result of Christ,s death !
 

Nanja

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Another scripture that teaches us that those Christ died for are saved/justified by His death/blood before Faith is Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[or Justified/made right] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Being justified by his blood vs 9 and reconciled by his death are primarily the same thing, emphasis being put into a right relationship/standing with God. And it was while still being enemies/unbelievers !


Therefore, every single person Christ died for has remission of sins, and the penalty for them automatically discharged, thus Justified, whether they are believers yet or not. And ones act of believing did nothing to accomplish that or contribute to it in any way!
 

Bright Raven

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Heres a verse of scripture that also declares to us that Christ death alone justified/saved them He died for [the elect] before they believed Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats what the resurrection of Christ evidences, the Justification of all those sinners He was delivered up for their sins .

We dont believe in the resurrection of Christ correctly if we dont believe it evidences the Justification of all for whom He died !

This Justification had nothing to do with mens faith or believing, its solely the result of Christ,s death !

Are you going to answer my question in post nine?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Another scripture that points out that those Christ died for are saved/justified from the penalty of their sins, before they believe, based solely upon His Blood shed for them. Heb 9:12

12 [FONT=&quot]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

We see in this verse, that Christ accomplished something for them He died for, He obtained for them eternal redemption/salvation

The word for redemption here is the greek word [/FONT]
lutrósis and means:

(in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release.

redemption from the penalty of sin: This means they have by Christ obtained eternal Justification from the penalty of all sin. This comes by way of His Blood alone, nothing to do with their faith or believing. Its true for them before they are even born into the world as sinners, and even after they are born sinners. Remember because of this, as enemies they are reconciled to God by His Blood Rom 5:10

10 [FONT=&quot]For if, when we[believers] were[present tense] enemies, we were[aorist past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word enemies is
[/FONT]
echthros and means:

actively, hostile, hating and opposing

opposing (God) in the mind, Colossians 1:21;

Even then, they were reconciled to God, had obtained eternal redemption by Christ.

This is a truth the natural man cannot and therefore will not receive !
 

Nanja

Well-known member
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Heres a verse of scripture that also declares to us that Christ death alone justified/saved them He died for [the elect] before they believed Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats what the resurrection of Christ evidences, the Justification of all those sinners He was delivered up for their sins .

We dont believe in the resurrection of Christ correctly if we dont believe it evidences the Justification of all for whom He died !

This Justification had nothing to do with mens faith or believing, its solely the result of Christ,s death !


Amen, the Justification of all whom Christ died had nothing to do with their faith or believing, but is solely the result of Christ's death on behalf of all whom He died: The elect / His Sheep. Prior to believing, they stand completely Justified before God in their Surety Heb. 7:22, who was raised again for their Justification as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20.
 

Nanja

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Another scripture that points out that those Christ died for are saved/justified from the penalty of their sins, before they believe, based solely upon His Blood shed for them. Heb 9:12

12 [FONT="]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but [B][U]by his own blood he[/U] entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.[/B]

We see in this verse, that Christ accomplished something for them He died for, He obtained for them eternal redemption/salvation

The word for redemption here is the greek word [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066AA][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#001320][FONT=Trebuchet]lutrósis and means:

(in the Old Testament: [B]ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery,[/B] release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release.

redemption from the penalty of sin: This means they have by Christ obtained eternal Justification from the penalty of all sin. This comes by way of His Blood alone, nothing to do with their faith or believing. Its true for them before they are even born into the world as sinners, and even after they are born sinners. Remember because of this, as enemies they are reconciled to God by His Blood Rom 5:10

[COLOR=#000000]10 [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]For if, when we[believers] were[present tense] enemies, we were[aorist past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word enemies is [/FONT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]echthros and means:

actively, hostile, hating and opposing

opposing (God) in the mind, Colossians 1:21;

Even then, they were reconciled to God, had obtained eternal redemption by Christ.

This is a truth the natural man cannot and therefore will not receive !


The reconciliation that Christ accomplished for all His Elect Seed Eph. 1:4: Ps. 22:30 is Complete: His People [Elect] He came to save Mat. 1:21 have by His Death, been reconciled completely [apokatallasso] to God, and He to them !

But the natural man [not born of God] cannot comprehend Spiritual Truth, and as a result wants to do his part by his own believing to acquire salvation, putting the efficacy of the death of Christ to shame!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
So, those who dont receive the testimony of scripture that all those Christ died for are by His Death for them saved/justified before their faith in Him, they denied the saving efficacy of the Cross, by which before faith they have been objectively saved/justified in the object of their Faith, Christ and Him Crucified !
 

Nanja

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So, those who dont receive the testimony of scripture that all those Christ died for are by His Death for them saved/justified before their faith in Him, they denied the saving efficacy of the Cross, by which before faith they have been objectively saved/justified in the object of their Faith, Christ and Him Crucified !


Well said !

And the Faith which is a Fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 is how they shall come to know subjectively, be given a conscious assurance, of their right standing before God by Christ's Death on their behalf.
 
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