ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[godrulz]

No, Sozo is not wrong. I know by your statement that you have no idea what a child of God is. What you have is a form of the gospel and have refused the power of the gospel. You think it is still just you having to prove yourself to God. As for as my being Christ, No I am not but he is my brother and we do have the same father. Jesus, the father and me are one together. You cannot be as Jesus is in love or in any attribute if you can and do sin. All sinners are of the devil and no one who can sin is my brother. I don't care how moral you are.

So Knight is not a Christian either because he believes it is possible for a Christian to sin?

How can I possibly prove myself to God? He does not grade on the curve. His standard is perfection. We cannot save ourselves. He died for us as sinners (while we were yet sinners, He died for us...showing His love). I am not perfect. Jesus alone is perfect and sinless. My salvation is based on being in Him, not moralism.

You two lack insight and discernment and make the gospel narrower than the Bible does.

News flash: You two are not Judge, jury, executioner. Quit godplaying. You are poorly qualified to judge the eternal destinies of those who follow and trust Christ alone for salvation.

Disagreeing with your narrow views is not a condition of eternal life/damnation Do you have an ego problem?

 

[elected4ever]

So Knight is not a Christian either because he believes it is possible for a Christian to sin?

Knight just wrongly thinks that he sins and accuses himself falsely. You keep saying that you must achieve a maturity that you are able to not sin. Knight has never stated that his wrongly held position nullified his salvation. You have made such statements on many occasions.

How can I possibly prove myself to God? He does not grade on the curve. His standard is perfection. We cannot save ourselves. He died for us as sinners (while we were yet sinners, He died for us...showing His love). I am not perfect. Jesus alone is perfect and sinless. My salvation is based on being in Him, not moralism.

That is just it godrulz, If you are in Christ you are perfect and sinless. You cannot be in Christ and not be so. It is not something which can be achieved or maintained. It is what God has made you to be. A position that you have consistently denyed. That is why I am so hard on you.

If you or knight or anyone else, including Sozo, lighthouse or myself are guilty of sin sense we believed we are lost with no hope of recovery. There is no new sacrifice for the new sin committed by the new life in Christ. What am I to be, born again and again and again. Each time crucifying Christ anew over and over and over again. You have believe a lie that pretends to be the Gospel. Not the gospel.

You two lack insight and discernment and make the gospel narrower than the Bible does.

I am not the one who limits the faith of Christ. That be you. You are the one that says Christ has not done what he clearly says that He did.

News flash: You two are not Judge, jury, executioner. Quit god playing. You are poorly qualified to judge the eternal destinies of those who follow and trust Christ alone for salvation.

No i am possibly the most qualified to make that judgement because i place everything next to the authentic and compare the two.. That is the way all counterfeits are detected.

Disagreeing with your narrow views is not a condition of eternal life/damnation : Do you have an ego problem?

I had to accept God's point of view over my own. If that point of view is narrow that is because God's point of view is narrow. Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It is not my ego you should be worrying about or even your own. My Father has a huge ego too and He does not like it when His word is changed to fit our little pint sized egos.

 

[Benjamin]

I would not come down to his level. He is a believer, as we are, despite his ignorance and immaturity.

He preaches a very dangerous and different Gospel message. I will let God judge his soul, but it is for me to judge his message- and it are not lining up with the Scripture.

 

[godrulz]

He preaches a very dangerous and different Gospel message. I will let God judge his soul, but it is for me to judge his message- and it are not lining up with the Scripture.

He focuses on the fact that salvation is life to the exclusion of other equally valid truths. I accept life, but also talk about relationship, reconciliation, redemption, light vs darkness, etc. This does not mean that either one of us reject justification by grace through faith alone, apart from works. It does not mean we reject the Deity and resurrection of Christ, existence of God, Bible as the Word of God, etc.

It is possible to know and love Jesus and hold to both of our nuanced views.

Just because his 'fruit' is not consistent with his profession does not mean that he has a different gospel like Mormon's do. It means he does not practically live out the theory that he professes.

 

[godrulz]

Knight just wrongly thinks that he sins and accuses himself falsely. You keep saying that you must achieve a maturity that you are able to not sin. Knight has never stated that his wrongly held position nullified his salvation. You have made such statements on many occasions.

It is not my ego you should be worrying about or even your own. My Father has a huge ego too and He does not like it when His word is changed to fit our little pint sized egos.

There is a difference between God's perfection and you thinking your understanding and life is absolutely perfect in every sense.

I do not say we must achieve maturity to not be able to sin. There is no good reason for a believer to sin from minute one of salvation. My position does not negate my salvation. I did not make those statements. I have said that if a believer lusts, they sin, but do not lose their salvation.

The only sin that is unique is the sin of defiant, persistent, godless unbelief against great light. If someone rejects truth and Christ and His FINISHED work (which I also believe in despite you thinking that I do not think the cross was perfect), then that sin puts them outside of the grace of Christ. Do not confuse this with a wrong thought, motive, or act that is not blatant, godless, Christ-hating/denying unbelief (i.e. you are rejecting a straw man in order to save face with your indefensible views).

Christ is the narrow way and only way to eternal life. The road is not broad. We both affirm the essential, salvific truths. Making an acceptance of Bob George's sinless perfectionism views a condition of salvation goes beyond the conditions of salvation in the Biblee

http://www.eternalsecurity.us/bob_george Classic Christianity.htm

(I do not agree with all of the link)

 

[Sozo]

Making an acceptance of Bob George's sinless perfectionism views a condition of salvation goes beyond the conditions of salvation in the Biblee

godrulz... I'm going to tell you this for the last time.
Bob George does not teach that Christians do not sin.

You are not only a persistant liar (you have been told this several times), but slander (according to your own words) is a sin. You are, in your own words, a persistent sinner.

Are you going to lose your salvation?

 

[godrulz]

godrulz... I'm going to tell you this for the last time.
Bob George does not teach that Christians do not sin.

You are not only a persistant liar (you have been told this several times), but slander (according to your own words) is a sin. You are, in your own words, a persistent sinner.

Are you going to lose your salvation?

I am not familiar with his views, but it is evident that you adopt the core of them. Many believers do not uncritically accept all of his narrow assumptions since they ignore other aspects of equally valid biblical truth.

 

[Sozo]

I am not familiar with his views, but it is evident that you adopt the core of them. Many believers do not uncritically accept all of his narrow assumptions since they ignore other aspects of equally valid biblical truth.

He teaches an exchanched life.

Many teachers in the last 2000 years have taught an exchanged life, including Jesus and Paul.

 

[godrulz]

He teaches an exchanched life.

Many teachers in the last 2000 years have taught an exchanged life, including Jesus and Paul.

"Exchanged life" can be understood differently though. I certainly affirm the gist of it, but not in a metaphysical way divorced from relational/reconciliation truths.

e.g. Imputation (part of your concept) has been understood differently by many great Bible teachers. Wesley understood it differently than Whitefield did, yet both were great men of God used mightily for the kingdom.

We are new creatures in Christ. We have been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. We have moved from death to live, from selfishness to godliness, from outside Christ to union with Him, etc. The exact fleshing out of these concepts is not so black and white. I recognize the Pauline and Johannine themes of life, light, love, death, flesh, spirit, etc., but like many others believers, do not understand or articulate it exactly like one modern radio personality does.

This does not mean that he or anyone else is a godless pervert, Christ-hating, demon possessed idiot for nuanced differences.

Apparently neither I nor the Spirit can make sozo see these rudimentary principles. Big bucks to anyone here who can (everyone's silence is deafening when it comes to letting sozo spout grievous attacks on fellow believers...at least Knight displays wisdom and maturity).

 

[elected4ever]

John Wesley is a pervert that led many to hell in his wake. This man you call great. :doh:

 

[godrulz]

John Wesley is a pervert that led many to hell in his wake. This man you call great. :doh:

Did I call him great or did I say he was greatly used by God in the harvest? Even your Calvinistic buddy Whitefield opposed him at times, but in the end recognized a common grace on both of their ministries. This is why they will be remembered in church history as mature, wise men of God, and you will be long forgotten as a peanut gallery sniper.

 

[Sozo]

Did I call him great or did I say he was greatly used by God in the harvest?

Honestly, I don't think you know what you're saying from one post to the next. In fact, here is what you just said in your last post...

...both were great men of God used mightily for the kingdom.

Yes, godrulz, you called him great.

:yawn:

 

[elected4ever]

Did I call him great or did I say he was greatly used by God in the harvest? Even your Calvinistic buddy Whitefield opposed him at times, but in the end recognized a common grace on both of their ministries. This is why they will be remembered in church history as mature, wise men of God, and you will be long forgotten as a peanut gallery sniper.

Oh great, one is a flagrant legalist and the other contributed to the stagnation of the church. These guys should be remembered but not for the reasons you suggest. I suppose between the two the truth fits in there some where. :dizzy: Just remember this godrulz, it is not being remembered here on earth that counts to me. I have a home to go to when I leave and that is where I will be welcomed by my King. That is what counts.

 

[godrulz]

Honestly, I don't think you know what you're saying from one post to the next. In fact, here is what you just said in your last post...

Yes, godrulz, you called him great.

:yawn:

My doctor is a great doctor. This does not mean she is greater than God. Wesley and Whitefield were used of God in a large way. Better, nitpicker?

 

[godrulz]

Oh great, one is a flagrant legalist and the other contributed to the stagnation of the church. These guys should be remembered but not for the reasons you suggest. I suppose between the two the truth fits in there some where. :dizzy: Just remember this godrulz, it is not being remembered here on earth that counts to me. I have a home to go to when I leave and that is where I will be welcomed by my King. That is what counts.

Most men, biblical or church history, that were used by God were imperfect. You and sozo are the first perfect couple that God has found, I presume? You are infallible in your beliefs. Why not write a definitive Bible commentary?

Let's talk about your expertise in the original languages. Why not translate a definitive Bible from the best MSS? You will be rich.

 

[Sozo]

Most men, biblical or church history, that were used by God were imperfect.

I know, doesn't that stink?

You and sozo are the first perfect couple that God has found, I presume?

Well, we're not a couple, but there are two of us, who have been made perfect by the blood of Jesus. (Hebrews 10)

Why not write a definitive Bible commentary?

Okay, I will. Where can I send you a copy?

Let's talk about your expertise in the original languages.

The God I know, is big enough to work in the midst of people to bring us His message concerning His Son in a language that we can understand. The Greeks knew Greek, and it didn't help many of them.

 

[elected4ever]

You and sozo are the first perfect couple that God has found, I presume?

Well, like they say, " like Father like son". You expect me to apologize for that?

 

[godrulz]

Well, like they say, " like Father like son". You expect me to apologize for that?

Thinking that all your views are infallible does not fit the quote. It is a thinly veiled arrogance and delusion.

We are sons of the Most High God. We are like Him in character, but believer's maturity levels vary (according to Paul at least). We are not like Him in His absolutes of wonder (eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc.). We are also like Him in that we are in the personal image (Imago Dei) of God. We have will, intellect, and emotions. You might want to use yours.

 

[Sozo]

We are not like Him in His absolutes of wonder (eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc.).

I thought you are an Open View theist?

 

[elected4ever]

I thought you are an Open View theist?

bump