ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 1

[elected4ever]

Clete, your just mad because we refuse to define God with human logic. Why not just let God be God regardless of your logic.. He doesn't operate by your logic anyway. By mine ether as for as that goes. I'm sorry God doesn't fit in your little box. He doesn't fit the Calvinist box ether. Get over it.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Clete, your just mad because we refuse to define God with human logic. Why not just let God be God regardless of your logic.. He doesn't operate by your logic anyway. By mine ether as for as that goes. I'm sorry God doesn't fit in your little box. He doesn't fit the Calvinist box ether. Get over it.

Well.... if you are right... you cannot objectively criticize Clete's view or any other view of what God is like.

In other words.... by your own logic you have rendered yourself meaningless.

 

[jeremiah]

Well.... if you are right... you cannot objectively criticize Clete's view or any other view of what God is like.

In other words.... by your own logic you have rendered yourself meaningless.

What???????

"My ways are not your ways"....God


"My ways are past your finding out"......God

As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are my ways above yours!

We see through a glass darkly, but when we see Him face to face, then we shall see Him as He really is.

 

[godrulz]

The prophecy in Jonah was not based on simple foreknowledge, as Clete points out. It states God's intentions to judge Nineveh. It is conditional, though, as evidenced by the lack of judgment when they repented. The prophecy acted as a warning. If they did not repent, judgment would have come, just as God declared. Since they repented, God changed His mind and relented. The future was not settled or closed or exhaustively foreknown.

Prophecy is not always predictive. It can also be a proclamation of warning with a conditional element (only makes sense if the future is not entirely settled). A prophecy about the coming Messiah is unconditional since God will bring it to pass by His ability. Hezekiah is another prophecy that looks unconditional, but it is actually conditional, as evidenced by the adding of 15 years to his life after a clear statement of certain doom (i.e. God changed his mind in response to changing contingencies...the Open View is actually a stronger view in relation to prophecy, prayer, evangelism, etc.).

 

[Lighthouse]

Read this sentence again "What we are saying is that God decided not to do something He had previously decided not to do." Sounds line something I would wright. makes no sense.

:ha:

Anyway, remove the last "not," and you'll have what I meant. It was a typo.

I fixed it.

 

[Lighthouse]

Reading other peoples mail I see. To answer the question though, Us

So, if we are the reflection, wouldn't it stand to reason that the reason we can change our minds, is because God can change His?

 

[Lighthouse]

Clete, your just mad because we refuse to define God with human logic. Why not just let God be God regardless of your logic.. He doesn't operate by your logic anyway. By mine ether as for as that goes. I'm sorry God doesn't fit in your little box. He doesn't fit the Calvinist box ether. Get over it.

God does not operate according to our logic, that is true. Why is it true? Because we operate according to His. His logic is the only logic there is. There is no such thing as "human logic."

 

[elected4ever]

Well.... if you are right... you cannot objectively criticize Clete's view or any other view of what God is like.

In other words.... by your own logic you have rendered yourself meaningless.

Your right, Outside of God our lives are meaningless :dunce:

 

[elected4ever]

God does not operate according to our logic, that is true. Why is it true? Because we operate according to His. His logic is the only logic there is. There is no such thing as "human logic."

Wrong, Humans have an independent logic. Failure to recognize that causes error in thinking that human logic and God's logic as the same.

 

[themuzicman]

Or ignoring what the text as a whole says.

Rob

I don't use scripture to refute scripture.

Muz

 

[elected4ever]

So, if we are the reflection, wouldn't it stand to reason that the reason we can change our minds, is because God can change His?

No. God is and we only mimic through a warped judgement. That is why our faith is entirely dependent upon God's reality and not man's reality.

 

[Philetus]

NEWS FLASH!
After 591 posts, the opponents of Open Theism are still arguing that God is incomprehensible. Who says you can’t resurrect dead minds?

 

[Lighthouse]

Wrong, Humans have an independent logic. Failure to recognize that causes error in thinking that human logic and God's logic as the same.

So God did not create our logic from His own?

You do realize that anything that is not God's logic is illogical, don't you?

 

[elected4ever]

NEWS FLASH!
After 591 posts, the opponents of Open Theism are still arguing that God is incomprehensible. Who says you can’t resurrect dead minds?

Yea, I'm an optimist. I am still working on yours.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

NEWS FLASH!
After 591 posts, the opponents of Open Theism are still arguing that God is incomprehensible. Who says you can’t resurrect dead minds?

:chuckle:

 

[Clete]

Clete, your just mad because we refuse to define God with human logic. Why not just let God be God regardless of your logic.. He doesn't operate by your logic anyway. By mine ether as for as that goes. I'm sorry God doesn't fit in your little box. He doesn't fit the Calvinist box ether. Get over it.

How do you know that you are just letting God be God e4e?

 

[Clete]

What???????

"My ways are not your ways"....God


"My ways are past your finding out"......God

As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are my ways above yours!

We see through a glass darkly, but when we see Him face to face, then we shall see Him as He really is.

Do you really believe that we reject this? Give me a break will ya? Why is it so impossible to have a decent conversation about this stuff without this sort of wacky nonsense coming up almost instantly? :bang:

The passage you quote simply indicates that we can never fully understand God. But, to make a crude analogy, I can't fully understand how computers work either. That doesn't mean that computers work in some irrational way just because I can't figure out how it does what it does. And by the same token, just because God is beyond the abilities of even the smartest of human beings to fully grasp and figure out does not imply that God is irrational or that anything about Him is irrational. In fact, the the first chapter of John tells us explicitly that God the Son IS Logic! And so we can therefore know that any theology that is irrational is, by definition, anti-Christ and therefore not only false but down right evil. And what's more, as Knight points out, if we reject logic then no truth claim whether it concerns God or not, can be falsified at all, which renders all truth claims meaningless! Without Logic (capital L) there is no truth for God the Son said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." and "If you abide in My word (logos (i.e. logic)), you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[elected4ever]

How do you know that you are just letting God be God e4e?

The same way you think you are.

 

[elected4ever]

Do you really believe that we reject this? Give me a break will ya? Why is it so impossible to have a decent conversation about this stuff without this sort of wacky nonsense coming up almost instantly? :bang:

The passage you quote simply indicates that we can never fully understand God. But, to make a crude analogy, I can't fully understand how computers work either. That doesn't mean that computers work in some irrational way just because I can't figure out how it does what it does. And by the same token, just because God is beyond the abilities of even the smartest of human beings to fully grasp and figure out does not imply that God is irrational or that anything about Him is irrational. In fact, the the first chapter of John tells us explicitly that God the Son IS Logic! And so we can therefore know that any theology that is irrational is, by definition, anti-Christ and therefore not only false but down right evil. And what's more, as Knight points out, if we reject logic then no truth claim whether it concerns God or not, can be falsified at all, which renders all truth claims meaningless! Without Logic (capital L) there is no truth for God the Son said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." and "If you abide in My word (logos (i.e. logic)), you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

Resting in Him,
Clete

That is just it Clete. Your theology doesn't make you free

 

[Clete]

The same way you think you are.

This is not an answer but that is not surprising.

I know that my theology is true because of the testimony of two objective witnesses.

Care to guess what they are?

That is just it Clete. Your theology doesn't make you free

I didn't say it did. Please at least try to respond to what I actually say and not some stupid nonsense that you just make up off the top of your head - seriously - please!

Resting in Him,
Clete