ARCHIVE: Bob Enyart has already lost the debate ...
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Hello Zakath and Taoist,
Zakath
Sorry to hear you were ill and in hospital. I hope you are better now.
What do you think of our joint effort in the post game show?
Taoist
And why has this Bob E person, that calls Taoist a "blitherering idiot" in his own show, did not make a post on here in time?
Is it perhaps because this religious fanatic can not proof that his deity has any more existence as, let's say, Donald Duck?
Zakath
Sorry to hear you were ill and in hospital. I hope you are better now.
What do you think of our joint effort in the post game show?
Taoist
And why has this Bob E person, that calls Taoist a "blitherering idiot" in his own show, did not make a post on here in time?
Is it perhaps because this religious fanatic can not proof that his deity has any more existence as, let's say, Donald Duck?
Have you ever noticed how religion almost always = MONEY ! $$$$$ !
I have NEVER seen an atheist or even Evolutionist asking for money or trying to sell something.
Check out any site you like.. EVERY religious site offers to sell something or asks for money.
NO atheist site does.
Doesn’t this just give a little clue that the atheist message is not tainted by the greedy desire for money. What is even more amazing is that it is in direct opposition to the Christian ideal.. remember Jesus in the Temple with the money lenders and vendors ???
Perhaps the atheists are far more “Christian” with their “free” offerings than those greedy religionists !
I have NEVER seen an atheist or even Evolutionist asking for money or trying to sell something.
Check out any site you like.. EVERY religious site offers to sell something or asks for money.
NO atheist site does.
Doesn’t this just give a little clue that the atheist message is not tainted by the greedy desire for money. What is even more amazing is that it is in direct opposition to the Christian ideal.. remember Jesus in the Temple with the money lenders and vendors ???
Perhaps the atheists are far more “Christian” with their “free” offerings than those greedy religionists !
Mr Potato Head
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Hey Aussie!
I beg to differ... just go to infidelguy.com - Go a third of the way down the page, look on the left side. They give you two sites that you can donate through, stormpay and paypal! Whoops. Oh, and then have you ever noticed that in order to do anything you need money? Apparently not. Maybe it's true that some churches have illegal drug runs to raise money but most have to rely on private donors. You ever think about that??
Oh, and I found a couple church sites that don't ask for money (www.nefc.net and www.apc-online.org). So that didn't work either.
One last thing, don't start quoting the Bible when you have no idea what's going on. It had nothing to do with the money that was being given to the temple (see Mark 12:41-44) as to why Jesus cleared it, it was the fact that they were mocking the sacrificial system (the very thing Jesus came to fulfill) by selling animals for the sacrifice while ripping people off and being "robbers." It had nothing to do with giving money to the Church or to projects it undertakes.
I beg to differ... just go to infidelguy.com - Go a third of the way down the page, look on the left side. They give you two sites that you can donate through, stormpay and paypal! Whoops. Oh, and then have you ever noticed that in order to do anything you need money? Apparently not. Maybe it's true that some churches have illegal drug runs to raise money but most have to rely on private donors. You ever think about that??
Oh, and I found a couple church sites that don't ask for money (www.nefc.net and www.apc-online.org). So that didn't work either.
One last thing, don't start quoting the Bible when you have no idea what's going on. It had nothing to do with the money that was being given to the temple (see Mark 12:41-44) as to why Jesus cleared it, it was the fact that they were mocking the sacrificial system (the very thing Jesus came to fulfill) by selling animals for the sacrifice while ripping people off and being "robbers." It had nothing to do with giving money to the Church or to projects it undertakes.
Potato,
You have a go at me for misquoting scripture when I didn’t even quote it.
The you go and misquote it.
Mark 12 41-44 is explaining why the old lady who gives so little actually give more than the rich men who give a lot but can afford more.
The basic thrust of Jesus rant in the Temple was a rant against the Romans and Roman ways of commerce that had infiltrated the Temple. “Render under Caesar.. remeber !
You aren’t going to convince anyone that ministries like Enyarts and most Fundamental Churches are just money grubbing enterprises that would have sickened Jesus !
You have a go at me for misquoting scripture when I didn’t even quote it.
The you go and misquote it.
Mark 12 41-44 is explaining why the old lady who gives so little actually give more than the rich men who give a lot but can afford more.
The basic thrust of Jesus rant in the Temple was a rant against the Romans and Roman ways of commerce that had infiltrated the Temple. “Render under Caesar.. remeber !
You aren’t going to convince anyone that ministries like Enyarts and most Fundamental Churches are just money grubbing enterprises that would have sickened Jesus !
Mr Potato Head
New member
Aussie-
You're right, you didn't quote the story. My fault. But that wasn't my point (and by the way I didn't quote it either). The point of the woman story was that Jesus didn't condemn giving money to the temple (or church or whatever) but rather he approved it when it came from pure motives. And Jesus driving people out of the temple may have indirectly resulted from the Roman commercialism but it was more directly because of the undermining of the sacrificial system and the importance of the role of the temple (the place where God dwells).
And I never tried to convince anyone of the purity of those ministries. I am not gonna make a judgement on enyart's ministries or anything else, but like you (and Christ too I'm sure) I am disgusted by the greed of many in the church. But keep in mind, we wouldn't be Christians if we were perfect. It's not some holiness club, we are Christians precisely because we are aware of how imperfect we are. No, that doesn't mean they (or I) have an excuse to do whatever we want. But it is the recognition that we cannot meet God's standard on our own and that we need a savior. That is why we belong to Christ. After all, the Protestant Reformation began partially out of the greed of the Catholic Church in selling indulgences ("when a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs" -Johann Tetzel). Things like this sicken me. I despise to see the name of my Lord used as a business advertisement. Another thing to remember is that oftentimes what is called the Christian church is not at all Christian, it is just another political organization identifying themselves by that label in order to gain power.
Showing you those sites was not to say that you have no point or that those organizations are not corrupt, it was to simply show the fallacy of your universal assumptions.
Don't dismiss Christ because of the actions of those who claim to be his followers. Look at the first hand accounts of him and his resurrection. If the resurrection happened all of existence hangs around it, if not then it means nothing and we (Christians) are all wasting our lives (as you think probably). But the evidence is there, ask "God" to show you. Don't close your mind to it. Give Him a chance. If you do, you'll be amazed.
You're right, you didn't quote the story. My fault. But that wasn't my point (and by the way I didn't quote it either). The point of the woman story was that Jesus didn't condemn giving money to the temple (or church or whatever) but rather he approved it when it came from pure motives. And Jesus driving people out of the temple may have indirectly resulted from the Roman commercialism but it was more directly because of the undermining of the sacrificial system and the importance of the role of the temple (the place where God dwells).
And I never tried to convince anyone of the purity of those ministries. I am not gonna make a judgement on enyart's ministries or anything else, but like you (and Christ too I'm sure) I am disgusted by the greed of many in the church. But keep in mind, we wouldn't be Christians if we were perfect. It's not some holiness club, we are Christians precisely because we are aware of how imperfect we are. No, that doesn't mean they (or I) have an excuse to do whatever we want. But it is the recognition that we cannot meet God's standard on our own and that we need a savior. That is why we belong to Christ. After all, the Protestant Reformation began partially out of the greed of the Catholic Church in selling indulgences ("when a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs" -Johann Tetzel). Things like this sicken me. I despise to see the name of my Lord used as a business advertisement. Another thing to remember is that oftentimes what is called the Christian church is not at all Christian, it is just another political organization identifying themselves by that label in order to gain power.
Showing you those sites was not to say that you have no point or that those organizations are not corrupt, it was to simply show the fallacy of your universal assumptions.
Don't dismiss Christ because of the actions of those who claim to be his followers. Look at the first hand accounts of him and his resurrection. If the resurrection happened all of existence hangs around it, if not then it means nothing and we (Christians) are all wasting our lives (as you think probably). But the evidence is there, ask "God" to show you. Don't close your mind to it. Give Him a chance. If you do, you'll be amazed.
Potato,
It was pretty general rant.. its just I generally see a lot more greed, deception and lies in Gods name than I ever see from those that do not believe in a God !
It was pretty general rant.. its just I generally see a lot more greed, deception and lies in Gods name than I ever see from those that do not believe in a God !
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Evolution is paid for by taxes. What Mr. Enyart sells is a product for a price. Unlike the fed school, in real life, there is no free lunch.
But speaking of godless institutions and funding: The UN is paid for by dues. Plannedbarrenhood gets donations. How do animal rights and gun control organizations get their money? Donations. With these folks you don't get much of a return other than more oppressive legislation.
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Translation: No, I haven't really read anything of Mr. Enyart's and am coming to my own conclusions. But if I make mention that I live in the same state, you might come to the conclusion that I have actually read some of his work without me having to out and out lie about it.
You can come to that conclusion if you want to, but know that you're doing it with no basis whatsoever. The fact is that I HAVE read quite a good deal of Enyart's writings, and found it without exception to be utterly devoid of any useful or meaningful content.
Is THAT explicit enough for you?
Because, unlike some who post here, I will quite often at least attempt to be diplomatic rather than blunt. I understand that this runs the risks of people interpreting what I say per their own biases, but that's at least in part their problem. You, for example, not only interpreted my statement in the worst possible light, but saw fit for some reason to then post this conclusion and to come very close to a public accusation of lying on my part. Why you seemed to think this was necessary, I could only speculate.
Frankly, I haven't found that I do appear less credible, to those whose opinions of my credibility concern me.
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For a start he read Enyarts entire "God exists" debate.
It was about 20 pages of the most uninspiring nothing I have ever read !
BTW BMyers.. I just loved the.. how did we evolve before taxes..LOL.. that was a ripper !
It was about 20 pages of the most uninspiring nothing I have ever read !
BTW BMyers.. I just loved the.. how did we evolve before taxes..LOL.. that was a ripper !
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