ARCHIVE: Bob Enyart has already lost the debate ...

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bmyers

BANNED BY MOD
Originally posted by 1Way
bmeyers – Either deal with what has plainly been laid before you

http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=307861#post307861 ,

or slink away and remain the insincere coward that you have been.

Sorry, I choose neither.

Your last line is most interesting, in that it says much about your style of argument. Unfortunately, such an attack will only work against one who cares what your opinion might be. As such, I would rather expect it not to be very successful in terms of furthering your goals, in the majority of discussions you might have here. You might do well, therefore, to abandon such tactics in favor of a somewhat more mature approach.

Thank you, by the way, for renewing my confidence in the continued relevance of a statement originally made by Gandhi, and which appeared in this forum not too long ago.

And I say all of this, of course, with all the sincerity I can summon on your behalf...
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Bmeyers – Words speak louder than actions, or?

You said
Sorry, I choose neither.

Your last line is most interesting, in that it says much about your style of argument. Unfortunately, such an attack will only work against one who cares what your opinion might be. As such, I would rather expect it not to be very successful in terms of furthering your goals, in the majority of discussions you might have here. You might do well, therefore, to abandon such tactics in favor of a somewhat more mature approach.
That has nothing to do with my argumentation, it was purely a personal judgment against you for being a rude snob. And although you said you choose neither, that is impossible, which is exactly like who you are, impossible.

You can not do “neither”, that is an impossibility. You have only two choices, you can either continue down your rude and pointless path of pious aversion to my points refuting yours, or you can deal with them, that choice is yours to make. You do not have the choice to do “neither”.

But, to think that you can do neither is yet another meaningless pointless evasive comment that amounts to you slinking away in aversion once again, so I take your response as concretely meaning, you are still the coward, so much so that you are even afraid of speaking the truth about it.

You are rude and pointless and seek out personal strife while saying that my rudeness is wrong, but when it comes to you judging against a Christian, you are full of it.

So, you would do well to not violate your own precept of dealing well with others instead of being hypocritical and pointless and spiteful and saying I am wrong for being harsh and judgmental with you because you are being rude and contrary with me. The fact remains unchanged, either you will or you will not deal with the point of this discussion and how I demonstrated that you are wrong.

That is a fact, that is the truth, and you can say nor do anything to refute it. You can and you probably will be contradictory instead of actually addressing the point at hand, but that is your choice and argumentation style. You would do well to change it.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Bmeyers – Here is the post for everyone to see again, the one that you will either deal with, or coward away from as you have consistently been doing. Substance over symbolism, truth over lies.
bmeyer - You said
It seems, though, that quite a few people here DO seem willing to make that judgment, based solely on what other people are writing in response to questions presented in this forum. Based on the above, I am assuming that you would agree that this is unwarranted?
There is a difference between redeeming the time and absolutes. You should be able to ask anyone on this forum who is like myself quite willing to judge against another person, even to judge that they need to get saved, if their judgment is absolute or is it subject to error.

And therein you see the error of your slant. You would like to hold against us righteous who condemn the wicked, that our judgments are somewhat erroneous because we can not know for certain if someone is saved or not, we might be good guessers and sometimes very bad guessers, but we are acting in a way that discredits Christianity, not helps it.

Correct me if that is not what you are basically saying.

So I say, you are simply pointing out human imperfection. It is even possible that you could encounter someone who is supposed to be a close family member of your own family, and be mistaken about who they are. It is “possible”. It is possible that if you were asked for the answer, what is one plus one, you might get it wrong, it is “possible”, because we are human and we are prone to error.

Right, we are human and we are prone to error. But that is hardly the issue, if you see someone headed towards destruction, and you don’t do something to help them because after all, you can not be absolutely positive that they are headed for destruction, so what do you do? Do you attempt to redeem the time and save (or assist) as many people as you can, to lead them to know the Lord or to know Him better, or do you just say, well I could be wrong and not proceed based on the chance that what you think to be true, simply is not.

Your right, we are not God, we can not “perfectly” know every thought and see right to a person’s heart, but God teaches us Christians the nature of men and their heart and their actions and their words and their life’s witness and the relationship between them, He teaches us to judge people according to their words and their life, and to do so according to absolute right and wrong. But you would be wrong for pretending that such an observation should stop believers like myself from acting upon the belief that someone is or is not saved.

And don’t act like you don’t do the very same sort of thing in judging the inner man of other people. If you date, you size up a person to see if they are your type or not, you check their level of honest, their intelligence and sense of humor, etc., same with many interpersonal relationships especially where trust and respect are important to you, in fact, in greater and mostly lesser ways, you probably form dozens or even hundreds of discrete personal judgments about other people every day. So don’t worry, be happy, and if your not saved and many Christians can tell, that’s life, get used to it!
Either or, there is no other choice. :)
 

bmyers

BANNED BY MOD
Originally posted by 1Way

You can not do “neither”, that is an impossibility.

As I have already done so, it is clearly not an impossibility, and therefore the rest of your post is irrelevant. Please enjoy the rest of your discussions here.


But, to think that you can do neither is yet another meaningless pointless evasive comment that amounts to you slinking away in aversion once again, so I take your response as concretely meaning, you are still the coward, so much so that you are even afraid of speaking the truth about it.

You are rude and pointless and seek out personal strife while saying that my rudeness is wrong, but when it comes to you judging against a Christian, you are full of it.

If you wish to consider me "cowardly," or "rude and pointless," that is certainly your right. It will make very little difference to me either way. As to the "judging against a Christian," well, it should be quite obviously that if I had done so, it would also no longer matter to me if this supposed "Christian" believed me to be "full of it" or not. So I fail to see your point, if in fact there is one there to be seen.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
bmeyer - You willfully contradict reason and logic for the simple goal of trying to frustrate and insult a Christian who has first caught you in an impossible situation, your own personal contradictions, between what you say and what you do.

Apparently you despise me so much that no matter what I would say you would disagree with it, because I have shown the truth of the error of your way, and you don’t prefer that.

You purpose that you will not do either of the following:

deal with my points,

not deal with my points

against you. That belief is an undeniable contradiction, and your behavior is senseless and rude.

If you ever get into a meaningful intelligent respectful discussion, although I have my doubts “you” will, don’t engage the conversation as though you are going to sincerely discuss and deal with the issue at hand, you do not do that, instead you say things like,

that is not what I was saying, and then do not explain what you were instead saying, and then when asked what were you saying if that was not what you were saying, you will again not answer but instead would use your turn to speak as a chance to turn the intellectual respectful conversation into mud slinging, only here is the catch, you will use a civilized and calm tone and use “nice” sounding words but you will use then in a perverse and contrary and hypocritical way, and you will hide behind these phony crutches when your discussion partner judges you for being communicatively aversive and subversive and even contradictory.

I could be wrong and perhaps you just like me and so I am getting your better treatment, go figure.

Its not what you feel, it’s the truth of the matter, that matters. – Some not dumb person.
 

bmyers

BANNED BY MOD
Originally posted by 1Way
Apparently you despise me so much that no matter what I would say you would disagree with it, because I have shown the truth of the error of your way, and you don’t prefer that.

I'm sorry that you think for some reason that I "despise" you - well, actually, no, I can't honestly say that I am sorry about this, since it is your own choice - but this belief is incorrect in either case. I do not know you, and so neither despise you nor like you. I simply find your opinions on this particular subject to be irrelevant.
 

Wadsworth

New member
Originally posted by 1Way
Wicked atheist, I pretty much agree with you in that you do believe there is no God. Even God admits that people believe such a thing, oh, please excuse me, I am 1Way, a local resident Christian, welcome to the forum.

My brother in the Lord Jim thinks that atheists do not and cannot exist because of an interpretational conflict that he has thus far not extricated himself from. The bible teaches that all men know of God and that this knowledge is somewhat profound in one sense, and in another sense, this knowledge is vague enough for men to become deluded into believing that God does not even exist. As a Christian, I affirm that you have a right to oppose God and to go to hell forever. But also, as a Christian, I reserve the right to try to help people stop themselves from hurting themselves and others, I am of the opinion that death and destruction are bad things, but then again, I’m just being reasonable. So I wont stop ignoring the fight to save lives, because I care for the lost and the damned that they might be saved from the most horrible ends imaginable, being utterly without love and all things right and good. I try to help people because the truth and the life and the way is worth it, it’s even worth all the world’s opposition if necessary.

Would you try to prevent a police officer from stopping crime, would you deter the fireman from putting out the fire, would you stop the doctor from helping the sick and the broken heal? Even if they were trying to help you and yours?

So, what is your best shot at why you don’t believe in the living God of the Bible, if you go to hell forever, what will be the nail that sealed the coffin of your eternal damnation? [/QUOTE

Sorry, 1way, that I did not reply to you before. It was for two reasons, one I don't know what I am doing, and could not find your post until now, and two, I was banned as "Wicked Atheist", but have since returned as "Wadsworth"; which means I shall now probably be banned again. Oh well we have to bear these afflictions. To try and reply (before being banned again): the truth is I cannot really reply to you because we speak a different language. The point of Atheism is not that we acknowledge God in some way; we do not, nor do we hate him; we can't hate what , to us , does not exist. Fundies love to say "oh your not really an atheist", and then justify the comment by appeal to a biblical quotation. But unfortunately atheists do not acknowledge the validity of such biblical qotations, mentioning God. We are prepared to follow and enjoy the history, poetry, and uplifting passages. I myself am very fond of "Davids Lament". But when the talk turns to God, then sorry, I do not accept it as a description of reality.
 

attention

New member
1way:

"Would you try to prevent a police officer from stopping crime, would you deter the fireman from putting out the fire, would you stop the doctor from helping the sick and the broken heal? Even if they were trying to help you and yours? "

The examples you use are just common sense. They are just acts of our human nature.
Contradictionary you see sometimes people, basing themselves on some sort of fundamental outlook on Christianity, that DO want to prevent such human acts. There are people, that base themself on a fundamental belief, that refuse to take a medicin against a disease, since they belive that if and when they are gonna die, is an act of God, and should not be prevented by man.

Further, on the position of atheism and religion, I think you need to be aware that we don't want to place outselves in a negative position against religion or Christianity, but rather raise ourselves above it.

I could recommend you reading the book Essence of Christianity by Ludwich Feuerbach (1841). It's a fairly good philosophical book - even for today's treatment - about the essential attributes of Christianity.

Some conclusions raised in the book:
- the substance and the object of religion is alltogether human
- divine wisdom is human wisdom
- the secret of theology is anthropology
- the absolute mind is the so-called finite subjective mind

Religion is not consciouss that it's elements are human. On the contrary it places itself in opposition to the human, or at least it does not admit that it's elements are human.

It is especially worth reading for those who want to raise themselves above Christianity, above the stand-point of all religion.

"Our relation to religion is therefore not a merely negative, but a critical one; we only separate the true from the false; — though we grant that the truth thus separated from falsehood is a new truth, essentially different from the old. Religion is the first form of self-consciousness. Religions are sacred because they are the traditions of the primitive self-consciousness. But that which in religion holds the first place — namely, God — is, as we have shown, in itself and according to truth, the second, for it is only the nature of man regarded objectively; and that which to religion is the second — namely, man — must therefore be constituted and declared the first." Ludwich Feuerbach

========================================

Ludwig Feuerbach: The Essence of Christianity

“Then came Feuerbach's Essence of Christianity. With one blow it pulverised the contradiction, in that without circumlocutions it placed materialism on the throne again. ... The spell was broken; the "system" was exploded and cast aside, and the contradiction, shown to exist only in our imagination, was dissolved. One must oneself have experienced the liberating effect of this book to get an idea of it. Enthusiasm was general; we all became at once Feuerbachians...” ENGELS
 

coffeeman

New member
(I've reposted this here so those who are following this will see my post and think I'm great!) <<<<<joke

1 way ... I hope you re-read your post...especially the parts of accusing christian brothers of being afraid of answering you...that's got to be the lamest grandstand act I've seen lately!

Not everyone lives on the internet!
and to accuse those who see some scriptures in a different light as being hipporcrits ... and why? because you have made up some fantasy scheme that we on the list have committed a judgement against you and have fallen into your camp of condemnation focus...again why? because we have ignored you! (I think you may have an ego problem ...I hope I'm wrong.) Have you noticed how many times you've mentioned you wrote 4,000 words? Good gravy man, get a grip!
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quote from 1 way
But you took a tiny possibility that one might try to exploit into something that it is not, and mock me personally, because after all, I disagreed with you.
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I hope you really look at that quote from you...this is exactly what I mean by the focus on condemnation and how it tends to conform us into what we are condemening. Do you see the dynamics of what just happened? You accused me of mocking you personally and then a few days later, here you are mocking a number of believers because they disagreed with you. or, maybe just because they didn't answer you in a timely (set by you) way.
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Romans 12: 9 is a great verse....have you looked at the rest of the chapter?

The one person I have learned from in this thread is LIGHTSON. He has responded humbly and in a true spirit. He has admitted weakness in some of his postings and also has given you some "points"..which you spurned as not being good enough, and why? because you wrote 4,000 words!
Face it 1 way...neither you nor I have displayed true Christian love....Lightson has and without hippocrisy. He hasn't compromised his' beliefs but has majored on the majors and not the minors...can't say that for you nor I.

Anyway, read this completely...this is the verse you like to quote..some new points come to light...honor one another above yourselves....patient in affliction....bless those who persecute you;bless and curse not.
Romans 12:
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

take care... I'll be back
 

coffeeman

New member
1 way......How come you didn't answer this?

Are you admitting defeat by your silence?????

:help: :jump: :bannana: :confused:
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Coffeeman – Blessing and goodness is never at the expense of the truth and righteousness. It is good and right and loving to admonish or rebuke and hope for repentance when someone you care about is trashing goodness and righteousness itself.

Either respond to my massive posts that are in direct response to yours, or realize that hypocrites are as meaningless and sinful back in Jesus’s day as they are today, hypocritical judgments are void of righteousness. Keep it up and soon no one will listen nor respect to you. No one other than perhaps other birds of your feather.

Respond, respond, respond. :kookoo:
 

coffeeman

New member
quote from 1 way...Keep it up and soon no one will listen nor respect to you. No one other than perhaps other birds of your feather.
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seems like you are the one that is getting NO RESPONSE = no listening to and that spells no respect. Now, I think most of us on this board respect each other so, it's not that...more possibly it's a lack of respect for what you are saying or maybe the way you are saying it.
I for one will be honest and tell you I believe you are on the fringe of a cultic belief. You are using some truth and focusing on a certain part of that truth to the detriment of the whole truth.
Most of your 4,000 word note was rehashing what we have discussed before and all you did was announce you were right over and over...just like some JWs I have met and Mormons who repeat what they have learned over and over until they believe it because they won't go against the group...spelled CULT.
And one more thing...I'm not letting you pull the old trick of you saying I don't believe in judging at all...at the first of our discussions I made it clear that I believed Christians should APPRAISE ALL THINGS....so don't think you can own the word judge...it's the condemnation of souls as if it is up to to determine who is saved and who is damned as well as the focusing on accusing brothers of perverting the Word of God, that is in question here...so don't wander off too far.
If you would come across a little bit more sane and not so childish in your attempts to teach what you know then maybe you would get more RESPECT.
GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS is JESUS CHRIST!

As far as Hilston is concerned..you're no match for him and you should be glad he is taking a break. I don't always agree with some of the things he says but if you are insinuating he is afraid of your cultic inclinations then wake up and smell the coffee blooms!

Again we see you pronouncing your greatness and how everyone is sooooo hiding from you and your MASSIVE POSTS...you see the hypercrites didn't just say one thing and do another they were the ones pronouncing how righteous they were...from their own mouths ....see a connection?
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Re: ?

Re: ?

Originally posted by 1Way
I guess Hilston has pulled a Zakath. ?
My moniker has become a byword????

I like noteriety as much as the next fellow, but please... :rolleyes:
 
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1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Zakath – That’s right Zak, you have dug yourself a hole, but I think you did so quite on purpose. But I don’t have to make you and your name out to be anything, you have made it yourself. Please, you ask me to please give you a brake, please back at yourself, because what happened (your unexpected, unwarranted disappearance) really did happen. :)

(Foregive me if you have worked to clear up your disappearance act, but from recent communications with the forum webmaster (yesterday), you have not done so.)

I’m sure that Benedict Arnold does not like his reputation preceding him, but facts are facts, you abandoned your own cause right in the heat of the battle and perhaps worse, you did so without even communicating why, you just ran away. We theists honor truth in reality, so your cowardice is only evident, and your apparent unconcern after the fact only supports the reality of your fear and personal lack of integrity towards the issue you ran away from.

But the future is open, you can change your ways, and I hope you do.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by 1Way
Zakath – That’s right Zak, you have dug yourself a hole, but I think you did so quite on purpose. But I don’t have to make you and your name out to be anything, you have made it yourself. Please, you ask me to please give you a brake, please back at yourself, because what happened (your unexpected, unwarranted disappearance) really did happen. :)

(Foregive me if you have worked to clear up your disappearance act, but from recent communications with the forum webmaster (yesterday), you have not done so.)

I’m sure that Benedict Arnold does not like his reputation preceding him, but facts are facts, you abandoned your own cause right in the heat of the battle and perhaps worse, you did so without even communicating why, you just ran away. We theists honor truth in reality, so your cowardice is only evident, and your apparent unconcern after the fact only supports the reality of your fear and personal lack of integrity towards the issue you ran away from.

But the future is open, you can change your ways, and I hope you do.

I'm always so touched by those who claim to honor truth without seeming to listen to it when it's communicated. I found the comparison with Benedict Arnold particularly endearing... :(

You seem to have overlooked it, but, on August 11th I posted my reasons for missing my ninth post of the debate -- illness and family issues. To be blunt, I spent time in the hospital. (See post) Unfortunately for you, I did not have either the health or availability of web access from my hospital bed to comment on Enyart's drivel. After I got out of the hospital, I informed Knight of that fact, whether he chooses to release the information is his business. It happens that my email address is part of my profile and I find it pathetic that more atheists contacted me to inquire about my health than did religionists. Not even my opponent, St. Bob the Broadcaster, had the courtesy to make inquiry via email.

The tone of you post comes across as disappointed; but you should realize that, unlike Enyart, I do not make my living from arguing about religious beliefs. I think the rapidity with which Enyart self-published the debate (on sale at his website for a mere $19.95 plus shipping and handling), without even the common courtesy of allowing the other major party involved (me) to review the text prior to publication, demonstrates where his head was in the matter.

For me, debating on boards like this was just a pastime. For him, debating here appears to be merely another way to make money off of religion.

Based on posts like yours, I find the current attitude on the board generally inhospitable, to put it mildly, and will not be posting much here in the future.

(edited to add the link to Enyart's website) - Z
 
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taoist

New member
Good morning, Zakath.

I'm sorry to hear you were ill, but I'm sure you'll understand that coming from a fellow atheist. Thank you for your participation in BR VII, as far as you were able to take it. I know your posts represented a good deal of time and effort and want you to know they were appreciated, though perhaps not by Pastor Bob. I hope you've had a chance to check out the post-game show. It seems the good reverend made me the topic of his latest broadcast, so I guess we did okay.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Thank you and you're very welcome.

You have my congratulations as well, Taoist! :D

I think that an individual's beleifs are more accurately illustrated by assessing his enemies than his friends. If Enyart dislikes your position, that's a plus for you, as far as I'm concerned. Keep up the good work. :thumb:
 

taoist

New member
I've a long way to go to reach your level of infamy. In addition to the now ubiquitous "pulled a Zakath," did you know they've named a TOL smiley after you as well?

Zakath = :zakath:

Maybe if Bob debates me one on one, I'll be similarly honored. After listening to his broadcast, I'm thinking about inviting him to debate the proper way to pronounce "taoist." Egads. Maybe, just maybe, given ten posts, I could get him to actually address the issue. But his latest show doesn't give me much reason for high expectations.

taoist;
Here's Bob's seven characteristics of God. Let's discuss the first two.

Broadcaster Bob;
Let's discuss the other five left out by that blithering idiot.

taoist;
Oi vey! Maybe it shudda been Jewish I was. Then maybe all the other questions I didn't ask he'd've answered. Such a bargain!
 
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